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Fuji XS-1

dhsimmonds

New member
It looks like the XS-1 will be available from the end of February 2012 with 2/3 sensor like the X10. Main features are that it's a whole lot bigger than the X10 with a massive zoom from 24-624mm. Initial pre-order prices in the UK are from £699 down to £629,

Hands on pre-view from the Fuji-Guys at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq2tUftH-pY

It is essentially a very well built bridge camera with the typical X series build quality and if image quality is anything near as good as the X10 it will sell!

I have always had a soft spot for the 2/3 sensor having experience of both the Leica D2 and Panasonic LC-1. This new Fuji XS-1 addresses just about every item on the D2 wish list when it was eventually discontinued! :D Neither Leica or Panasonic took up the challenge, probably because 4/3 sensor cameras were already in development. :mad:

Sorry Brian! :ROTFL:
 

Tim

Active member
Its a welcome to see such a design. It took me a while to find max apertures
f2.8 - f5.6 of the lens. Price is fairly keen. To reproduce this sort of setup with an low end APS-C Nikon or Canon, the body lens combo may be somewhat more?

I checked the manual but could not find where there is any indication of focal length in use in the EVF. I would think it handy to know!
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Looked at this camera as well and must say I am impressed by what I have seen so far.

Maybe this is really one of the first high end solutions to replace a medium to semi pro APSC-DSLR setup ? If so I could think of getting use for it ....
 

dhsimmonds

New member
A bit more info here: THE STORY | FUJIFILM X-S1

This also includes some images taken by a veteran professional landscape and wildlife photographer. As he is approaching his eighth decade, my guess he is like many of us trying to reduce the weight and bulk of his gear for travelling.

Incidentally he claims that images from this camera are capable of printing to A1 size for viewing at one metre. Quite a claim, but then Fujifilm are paying him so a few caveats required I suspect.

It is an interesting camera and one that separates itself from the usual bridge type by having a larger sensor, substantial body and lens barrel with a nice smooth manual zoom. Most seem to have awful electronic zooms that always stop at the wrong focal length!

I wish they were available now in time for my trip to South Africa next week!
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Dave,

you know, the older you get the more lazy .... or should we say wise?

I am actually getting a bit tired of all these DSLR based systems where new cameras with new sensors are coming in a 1-2 year frequency, requiring in most cases also new lenses, as the sensor requires much better glass. And hey, then you invest in say a 2.8/300 from whatever vendor and before you can really use it, it is replace by a new version, which does exactly well what you were missing in the previous version.

Reducing oneself to just APSC DSLR already makes lens choices a bit easier and cheaper. But never the less it is still a very expensive 2 year replacement cycle.

With a camera like the XS1 which costs well below €1000.- it is pretty easy to change every year or so to the latest model and have the latest and greatest. Does one really need this? Well everybody has to decide separately.

Anyway the weakest point of all those "bridge" cameras so far was IMHO the far end of tele, where all of them started really to get soft. If the XS1 holds up here to semi pro IQ, then a big part of the puzzle is solved (at least for me).

And yes, I admit that I also want (need) to reduce weight of my equipment, not only money invested in it.
 

raist3d

Well-known member
Dave,

you know, the older you get the more lazy .... or should we say wise?

I am actually getting a bit tired of all these DSLR based systems where new cameras with new sensors are coming in a 1-2 year frequency, requiring in most cases also new lenses, as the sensor requires much better glass. And hey, then you invest in say a 2.8/300 from whatever vendor and before you can really use it, it is replace by a new version, which does exactly well what you were missing in the previous version.

Reducing oneself to just APSC DSLR already makes lens choices a bit easier and cheaper. But never the less it is still a very expensive 2 year replacement cycle.

With a camera like the XS1 which costs well below €1000.- it is pretty easy to change every year or so to the latest model and have the latest and greatest. Does one really need this? Well everybody has to decide separately.

Anyway the weakest point of all those "bridge" cameras so far was IMHO the far end of tele, where all of them started really to get soft. If the XS1 holds up here to semi pro IQ, then a big part of the puzzle is solved (at least for me).

And yes, I admit that I also want (need) to reduce weight of my equipment, not only money invested in it.
The cycle is expensive but only if you participate in it- there's no real reason why anyone should upgrade with the same frequency of the capitalist companies. It seems to me you are buying almost every single camera that comes out. Nikon 1, X10, now looking at this… looking at the cameras you have bought in the not distant past - same deal. There will always be something better coming out and there will always be a camera that does better than the other within a niche.

I am honestly not sure having gone Nikon 1 and apparently being so overwhelmingly happy on it meeting your needs why you are looking for anything else that has "New" in it.

And you are buying the new Olympus digital OMD too, am I right?

All this does is hurt your wallet and your photography. Same goes for me or anyone else.

- Raist
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hmmm
I think that the problem with this camera is here:
Size of the XS1 compared to A35

In fact, it's pretty much the same size as an A77 - I'm sure that they've done their best with the zoom - and I'm also rather partial to the 2/3 sensor compromise (E10 also had it)

. . But if you can have something with a much much bigger and better sensor which is much smaller (and you can easily put on the Excellent tamron 27-270 zoom if you want a super zoom range).

. . . or else, you could have a NEX7:

Fuji X1s compared to NEX7
If you put the Tamron 18-200 zoom on it, it'll also be slightly shorter than the Fuji.
It will also be more than 200 gms lighter than the Fuji
and if you crop your Sony Image you'll easily have the zoom range of the Fuji!

So, I'm all for bridge cameras in principle but if the body is going to be the same size as a Canon 60D, then i don't really see the point.

all the best
 

raist3d

Well-known member
Hmmm
I think that the problem with this camera is here:
Size of the XS1 compared to A35

In fact, it's pretty much the same size as an A77 - I'm sure that they've done their best with the zoom - and I'm also rather partial to the 2/3 sensor compromise (E10 also had it)

. . But if you can have something with a much much bigger and better sensor which is much smaller (and you can easily put on the Excellent tamron 27-270 zoom if you want a super zoom range).
But that's not the same range. Isn't that 40.5mm to 405mm? That falls way short of the Fuji wide and tele. Also, at what price?

. . . or else, you could have a NEX7:
But again, at what price? And what lens? And what if some find the Nex7 size too small for the lenses?

Fuji X1s compared to NEX7
If you put the Tamron 18-200 zoom on it, it'll also be slightly shorter than the Fuji.
It will also be more than 200 gms lighter than the Fuji
and if you crop your Sony Image you'll easily have the zoom range of the Fuji!
The range of that is 18*1.5-200*1.5 = 27m - 300mm. You can't have the 24mm the Fuji has at wide, and if you crop to get the same 2x factor you end up with a 6 megapixel image. Sure, it's an option, but you could say the Fuji crops a notch and still have more range. And the price?

So, I'm all for bridge cameras in principle but if the body is going to be the same size as a Canon 60D, then i don't really see the point.

all the best
Well the range of the Fuji is still wider and most importantly - the price :)

How much is Nex-7 + adapter + 18-200? From amazon in USD that's:

adapter is $349.96 + Nex -7 is $1,199 (if you can get one at all right now), tamron 18-200 is $289 = total of $1837! yes, the Nex-7 better be better! :)

With Sony A77: $1399.99 + $289 lens = $1688(!)

Fuji XS1 is at least half the price of any of those options and has more range. And no worries on dust on sensor ever.

Of course it also has the exclusive patented Fuji EXR X10 ORBsTM bringing a new meaning to sparkles in your photography :)

- Raist

Update: Oops, you had mentioned the A35, not the A77 for comparison.

The A35 is $699. The tamron $289 so that's $989. Ok that is certainly within striking distance of the XS1, the Tamron being a stop slower. It would be interesting to see which of the two is the better lens.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
The cycle is expensive but only if you participate in it- there's no real reason why anyone should upgrade with the same frequency of the capitalist companies. It seems to me you are buying almost every single camera that comes out. Nikon 1, X10, now looking at this… looking at the cameras you have bought in the not distant past - same deal. There will always be something better coming out and there will always be a camera that does better than the other within a niche.

I am honestly not sure having gone Nikon 1 and apparently being so overwhelmingly happy on it meeting your needs why you are looking for anything else that has "New" in it.

And you are buying the new Olympus digital OMD too, am I right?

All this does is hurt your wallet and your photography. Same goes for me or anyone else.

- Raist
Well, you are right - but I still think that a camera like the XS1 could be a nice replacement for a complete APSC sized DSLR setup. I doubt that any Tamron or Sigma or what else zoom would be able to come close to the quality of the Fuji lens specifically designed for this sensor. I know it is actually a bridge camera, but it could be the first of this type of camera really coming up to high quality requirements.

Of course need to see more samples and results.

Peter

PS1: and I still did not order one :D

PS2: still love the Nikon V1 and especially the 10 and 30-110 lenses for what it is - a small, yet very capable system for general everyday use. But would I take it as the only camera (system) for a game drive trip to Africa? Pretty sure NOT. I would expand my current Nikon DSLR lineup with some lenses, especially long telephoto zoom - but this would be pretty expensive (for maybe just 1 trip in the next years) and also pretty much heavier to carry than a camera like the XS1. Would the XS1 hold up against say a Nikon D7000 with decent lenses? I cannot say, but I am waiting again for more test results.

PS3: I owned some bridge cameras in the past - Panasonic, Olympus I can remember - but what they suffered IMHO was the EVF as well as the IQ at long tele ranges. The EVF is for sure improved in the XS1, how good the long tele is needs to be seen.
 

raist3d

Well-known member
I don't know. It's certainly your cash and money but you sure seem to be buying almost anything with "new" on it. I can't even begin to imagine why did you get the X10 having all the cameras you already have, much less talk about this one.

- Raist

PS: Can it be safely predicted you are getting the new-to-be-released Olympus OMD too?
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I don't know. It's certainly your cash and money but you sure seem to be buying almost anything with "new" on it. I can't even begin to imagine why did you get the X10 having all the cameras you already have, much less talk about this one.

- Raist

PS: Can it be safely predicted you are getting the new-to-be-released Olympus OMD too?
I do not understand why you are bringing this discussion always into that direction. I am interested in a camera like the XS1 because I see it as a great tool once it really can deliver like on spec sheet. Will I buy it then is still to be seen. But why would I discuss something if I am not interested?

I meanwhile (like lot of others) got rid of many of my cameras and so I am actually looking for a all in one high end P&S. The X10 just rings all the bells in that area for me.

So what is wrong?
 

raist3d

Well-known member
I do not understand why you are bringing this discussion always into that direction. I am interested in a camera like the XS1 because I see it as a great tool once it really can deliver like on spec sheet. Will I buy it then is still to be seen. But why would I discuss something if I am not interested?
I don't know. Not sure what you mean. If you mean why talk about this, there's a few reasons. You write public reasons why the latest and greatest system works for your needs, you seem to lash out at times at anyone who dares mention anything that doesn't go with the latest and greatest system. It's obvious you purchase a lot of systems that are new, and latest. Given all that, it sure invites the question.

That said, enjoy your XS1 if you get it and the OMD which I would imagine you will surely get.

- Raist



- Raist
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I don't know. Not sure what you mean. If you mean why talk about this, there's a few reasons. You write public reasons why the latest and greatest system works for your needs, you seem to lash out at times at anyone who dares mention anything that doesn't go with the latest and greatest system. It's obvious you purchase a lot of systems that are new, and latest. Given all that, it sure invites the question.

That said, enjoy your XS1 if you get it and the OMD which I would imagine you will surely get.

- Raist



- Raist
Well, I am not much different to a number of people in this forum who are constantly looking for new and improved gear. Whenever one pulls the rigger then and buy is for sure an individual decision. In that regards I already improved (pulling the trigger much less) :D
 

dhsimmonds

New member
Hmmm
I think that the problem with this camera is here:
Size of the XS1 compared to A35

In fact, it's pretty much the same size as an A77 - I'm sure that they've done their best with the zoom - and I'm also rather partial to the 2/3 sensor compromise (E10 also had it)

. . But if you can have something with a much much bigger and better sensor which is much smaller (and you can easily put on the Excellent tamron 27-270 zoom if you want a super zoom range).

. . . or else, you could have a NEX7:

Fuji X1s compared to NEX7
If you put the Tamron 18-200 zoom on it, it'll also be slightly shorter than the Fuji.
It will also be more than 200 gms lighter than the Fuji
and if you crop your Sony Image you'll easily have the zoom range of the Fuji!

So, I'm all for bridge cameras in principle but if the body is going to be the same size as a Canon 60D, then i don't really see the point.

all the best
Jono, I take your points entirely!

However you do seem to overlook the fact that a good bridge camera the size and weight of the X-s1 also includes a whole lot of lenses. That would save this old bag of bones the weight and bulk of packing and carrying a 200-500, wider angle zoom and macro lens for travelling halfway around the world.

Perhaps you don't need the ultra long reach lens or macro and you are young and fit(???) :D

Hand baggage requirements whilst usually Ok for inter continental flights are notoriously low for weight on internal or small light aircraft for safari work.

My DSLR's will remain for similar work in the UK where I will have a vehicle fairly close at hand, but for travelling this just might be an answer. As you know, I preach it enough on this and other forum's, I only buy new to meet a definite need. A camera is a tool, nothing more or less for me. :deadhorse:

On the subject of image quality with the 2/3 sensor we shall to have wait and see. Suffice to say back in the days of 4 and 5Mpx bridge cameras with clunky electronic zooms, I managed to get excellent images some of which are still winning acceptances at International Exhibitions today. I am anticipating that with modern sensor and processor design images should be even better.

I do accept limitations of the 2/3 sensor, such as lower DR and also the big task of such a massive zoom lens in the optical area. However, modern camera firmware and sheer computer power can electronically overcome many of these shortcomings. We shall see. I am off again next Sunday so it is back to packing the A77 and X100 plus lenses, chargers, batteries, memory cards and binoculars! :(
 

Terry

New member
For safari work I probably work and keeping the kit small I still would probably do it again with m4/3. I did 90% of the safari with one body and one lens. GH2 + 100- 300. I know the X-S1 gets to the same range but there is a difference. Both are pretty similar in size but obviously you do get the bigger sensor with m4/3. The G3/GH2 both have ETC mode which is a crop mode that gives you a smaller sized jpeg but allows you to frame and expose in camera. So, an 8mp shot extends your reach to an 800mm equivalent lens. I did have 2 bodies in use with one having a 14-54 on it. You could put the 14-45x pancake on that body so it is like a point and shoot when you go to dinners etc but gives you a backup body in case something goes wrong.

So, I totally get the desire for a bridge camera but I also was unwilling to go with a backup and I did want good IQ. So, far I've printed at 17x25" and I haven't stressed out the pixels.

Most importantly, the areas a so vast, even more "landscape" oriented (non animal portrait) were still mostly done with the 100-300 lens.





Our safari in Kenya was also organized to eliminate the baggage limitations. We had the same Land Rovers and guides for the whole trip and drove from place to place. On the morning of our departure, the guides left with our gear and luggage early in the AM and drove it back to Nairobi. We had a more leisurely AM and flew back to Nairobi late morning with just a small carry on bag with laptop passport and wallet. When we landed in Nairobi the guides were waiting for us and took us to a hotel where we had a day room until our red-eye departures that evening.
 

stephengilbert

Active member
There's a saying that "academic politics is the most bitter and vicious form of politics, because the stakes are so low."

Not that this discussion has reached that level, but . . . .
 

dhsimmonds

New member
Hi Terry

Thanks for that and a great image by the way. Yes I have done safari's before in India and Botswana and also Zambia using my A900 with either A700 or latterly the A77 as back up. in fact the last trip the A77 was almost permanently attached to a 70-300G and the A900 welded o the ZA 16-35!

However I do like the Tamron 200-500 which is slightly lighter than the 70-400G, but the the wide end of the 70-400G is very often required as the big predators sometimes have a habit of getting more close and personal!

However put all of this in a rucksack and it gets heavy between locations. On safari itself, it's a doddle as the "big" cameras are capable of handholding, in fact I use a harness and the spare camera is close at hand usually in the safari vehicle.

It will be interesting to see if the X-s1 produces the acceptable images that the veteran pro photographer has produced for the X-s1 web site. I am not too sceptical about it as I do have personal experience of what the 2/3 sensor
paired to a very good lens can produce in the right light conditions. A safari usually provides those light conditions.

I am sceptical about the optical limits of such a huge zoom range, noise at higher ISO and dynamic range (also a 4/3 bugbear!)

However we have all recently witnessed the massive improvements in APS-C sensor technology, with useabilty at much higher ISO's, lens/firmware technology that is no longer producing that "small sensor, huge depth of field" look that might and only might satisfy my scepticism's. ;)
 

Terry

New member
Well, the other bit of gear that I'm testing out right now is the Nikon V1. With the 70-200 on it you get about 200-540 range and it is so fast for that focal that simply adding a 1.4x teleconverter you go to a 280 -756 or at 1.7x at about 320-920mm still with good lens speed. The 70-200 is a big lens but gives very fast AF, great frame rate, amazing raw buffer.
 
Sorry to say that I have read some early reports that the XS-1 has the same problems with specular highlights as the X10 does. I believe they use the same sensor and that would make sense. I took a photo last night in a restaurant and it really was ruined by the specular highlight issue of the X10. Fuji needs to fix this or make a statement regarding this "characteristic" of the cameras that share this sensor.

I love the X10 but people do have a legitimate gripe when you can't take night shots with the X10 (or the XS-1) due to a sensor issue.

I think I will have a look at the X Pro 1 and not even consider the XS-1.
 

raist3d

Well-known member
Fuji has already acknowledged (thought it doe depend apparently who you ask! :) ) that this is a sensor issue. The firmware will only try to reduce the effect but the sensor is what it is.

- Raist
 
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