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GF1 compared to E-P1

JBurnett

Well-known member
Thanks for all your work, John. After a very brief viewing of the files, a couple of things stuck out for me (differences in focus aside):

1. Slight difference in exposure. GF1 looks like it may be more in the tradition of G1 (e.g. I use -1/3 EV a fair bit)

2. EP-1 seems to have better (very) high-ISO files. In other words, your samples confirm what others have reported.

3. Quite a colour difference with the Oly 17mm on the two cameras. In my experience using the 17mm on my G1, I've been a bit surprised that the colours seemed more vivid than with either my Panasonic lenses or legacy lenses.
 

Terry

New member
Yes, thanks John... what are you thinking Terry?

\
That it doesn't show me anything I would base a camera buying decision on so I'm curious as to what he was looking for between the two screens that was clinched from those shots. I'm not sure how often one would sit in a dark room and look at the screens. I can say that I am sitting here with the two screens side by side in normal lighting and the colors on the Oly screen look more saturated (but more than real life) and the GF1 a little bit under real life at default and adjustable if desired.
 

Brian Mosley

New member
Yes, in a dark room they look so similar that one wouldn't consider it worth a second thought. John did comment about differences in bright light though, I don't know whether that would be a deal breaker either though.

As far as I'm concerned, the E-P1 screen is very useable in a wide range of conditions. I hope screens continue to improve in visibility for all ambient lighting conditions.

Cheers

Brian
 

Streetshooter

Subscriber Member
What I was looking for was the brightness on the Pen against the Panny.
I have the Pen and will not get the Panny only because It doesn't offer me any great upgrade.
I have read that the Panny screen was sooo much better but the difference seems like a moot point.

They both seem like good cameras.
I'm nailing it with my Pen....
Thanks for the info....
Don
 

Diane B

New member
What I was looking for was the brightness on the Pen against the Panny.
I have the Pen and will not get the Panny only because It doesn't offer me any great upgrade.
I have read that the Panny screen was sooo much better but the difference seems like a moot point.

They both seem like good cameras.
I'm nailing it with my Pen....
Thanks for the info....
Don
If I had the Pen I surely wouldn't sell it and buy the GF1 unless I had a good reason. If I was shooting with a G1 as main m4/3rds and wanted a second body (me), then having the menus, controls, etc. be the same was somewhat important. If the Pen LCD is good enough for you--then I doubt there's very much difference in any light--not enough to switch anyhow. For those that want this form (rangefinder style) but need a VF at times, then the GF1 offers that. For those that have issues at most any FL with shake (and lots of people do for various reasons) and you want to shoot with legacy lenses--then the Pen offers a good option. IS offers me the most at longer lengths, but I'm lucky (hate to say 'at my age' :ROTFL:)to be able to shoot at pretty slow shutter speeds with no IS and since I shoot mostly under 45mm (4/3rds) then I chose for my most important issue for any body (with all other things being pretty much equal)--the EVF.

Horses for courses as far as I can see.
 

barjohn

New member
I know the pictures make it look like the shots were taken in a dark room. They weren't. The problem was that when I took the shots exposed to normal levels for the room the screens washed out completely. Therefore, I exposed for the screens and that made the rest of the room look dark. The attached image illustrates this point.

The differences are as has been described. The E-P1 colors are slightly more saturated than life and the GF1 are less saturated than life. In bright sunlight the GF1 seems more washed out to me. However, since it supports an EVF that becomes less of an issue.
 
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lambert

New member
OIS vs IBIS for stills and video

IBIS is only useful for stills photography. It is disabled on the EP1 while shooting video. This may also be the case with Pentax. I believe it is disabled in order to prevent sensor meltdown. The advantage of Panasonic's OIS is that it is active for both video and stills photography. If you're not interested in video then this isn't a problem. But if video may be of interest then OIS is mandatory in my experience. I shot lots of video for two weeks with my EP1 while on vacation some months ago and the lack of IS was all too obvious on my large screen TV. The OIS system on my GH1 is absolutely brilliant. As a Leica RF photographer I never missed IS for stills. But I couldn't live without IS for video.
 

nostatic

New member
Pentax SR is functional during video. But if you're going to talk video, to me sound is mission critical, and if the camera doesn't have a mic input then it is off the list for anything other than informal grabs.
 

lambert

New member
Pentax SR is functional during video. But if you're going to talk video, to me sound is mission critical, and if the camera doesn't have a mic input then it is off the list for anything other than informal grabs.
I agree. That's one of the reasons I chose the GH1.
 

simonclivehughes

Active member
The GH1 isn't perfect in this regard either as the Mic jack is the same one used for the remote shutter release. Evidently, Panasonic didn't think anyone would want to use the remote while shooting video!

Cheers,
 
T

terryc

Guest
I have three m4/3 cameras now and do have some thoughts, in some ways they are more personal then anything else. I have a G1, PEN, and GF1.

The G series have the advantage with faster AF but the EP-1 isn't as far behind as some have indicated - in low light the advantage has to go to the G series with the focus assist lamp feature - when the focus assist lamp is turned off the cameras are about equal in low light, in my experience.

When using legacy lenses and this is important the clear winner for focusing in my opinion are the G1/GH1 hands down. That said I don't have the EVF1 for the G1F so I can't comment on how useful it will be with manual focus lenses. The two button approach of the Pen is at best awkward, but do-able with practice, I say that because I have seen great shots with the PEN and legacy lenses.

All the complaining about the EP-1 user interface aside the Pen has some very usable features missing on the GF1/G1. If you are willing to dig into the E manual and learn the interface the camera can be rewarding. Yes, I agree the menus are not exactly simple or intuitive and do require some effort. Less of a problem for me because I use Olympus DSLRs. An example would be the ability to set AF to the AE/AF button and turn-off the half press/full press AF (Mode 3 on the PEN). Can't do that with the G cameras, at least not yet.

Lenses go to Panasonic. The Olympus lenses are capable but I prefer the Panasonic lenses. I find the E Kit Zoom awkward and the 17mm needed another F stop. F2.0 would have been better and better build quality might have been a more suitable choice - similar to the original Pen lenses.

I prefer the Olympus approach to the LCD for shooting in AF mode from various angles, ie; the hip, shoulder, etc. That said the better resolution of the GF1 is very usable but not better than the Pen when shooting on the fly just different.

There was some complaining on the net about accidentally changing setting on the PEN while holding it in your right hand, and that certainly is the case - that said the controls can be turned-off and the on screen LCD menu used to get to the settings when changes are needed. On the GF1 I have had a similar problem and haven't yet figured out how to turn the buttons off - if indeed the buttons can be turned off. I don't think there is an LCD Menu equivalent to the Pen.

As for OIS versus the Olympus in body stabilization - I do prefer the Pen because it supports shooting with legacy lenses, but again that is a personal preference and many will never put a manual focus lens on their m4/3 camera. As it relates to video - I have a real video camera which I never use...:)

Just MY thoughts and of course mileage will very. More me thinking out loud than anything else.


Best to all. Terry
 
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Cindy Flood

Super Moderator
...snip...

All the complaining about the EP-1 user interface aside the Pen has some very usable features missing on the GF1/G1. If you are willing to dig into the E manual and learn the interface the camera can be rewarding. Yes, I agree the menus are not exactly simple or intuitive and do require some effort. Less of a problem for me because I use Olympus DSLRs. An example would be the ability to set AF to the AE/AF button and turn-off the half press/full press AF (Mode 3 on the PEN). Can't do that with the G cameras, at least not yet.

I prefer the Olympus approach to the LCD for shooting in AF mode from various angles, ie; the hip, shoulder, etc. That said the better resolution of the GF1 is very usable but not better than the Pen when shooting on the fly just different.

As for OIS versus the Olympus in body stabilization - I do prefer the Pen because it supports shooting with legacy lenses, but again that is a personal preference and many will never put a manual focus lens on their m4/3 camera. As it relates to video - I have a real video camera which I never use...:)

Best to all. Terry
Terry, I'd like to give my take on your thoughts. I've owned and used all three. I have since sold the E-P1. The reason for selling the E-P1 is that I like to use my MF lenses and it was too clumsy to focus them without an EVF. The additional button press required to exit the manual focus zoom-in drove me nuts.
I have my G1 set so that I can AF with the AF/AE lock button. Once you press that button, the focus is removed from the shutter button and a half-press of the shutter does not cause focus to change. If you fail to focus using the AF/AE, and the focus is not correct, then pressing the shutter button will cause the camera to focus.

Have you tried shooting from the hip using AF and the swivel lcd of the G1. Vivek introduced this method and it really works for me.

Olympus stabilization is the main reason that I bought the Pen. I also have owned an E3 and love the Oly colors. These are two areas that the Panny's can't compare for my needs. Once there is an Oly M4/3 with an EVF, I will be very interested...if they price it right.

Terry, I think you gave a very fair assessment. Both systems have their pluses and minuses.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I know the pictures make it look like the shots were taken in a dark room. They weren't. The problem was that when I took the shots exposed to normal levels for the room the screens washed out completely. Therefore, I exposed for the screens and that made the rest of the room look dark. The attached image illustrates this point. ...
The solution would be to brighten up the room so the ambient light matched the screens more closely. That's how our eye would see it.
 
T

terryc

Guest
Terry, I'd like to give my take on your thoughts. I've owned and used all three. I have since sold the E-P1. The reason for selling the E-P1 is that I like to use my MF lenses and it was too clumsy to focus them without an EVF. The additional button press required to exit the manual focus zoom-in drove me nuts.
I have my G1 set so that I can AF with the AF/AE lock button. Once you press that button, the focus is removed from the shutter button and a half-press of the shutter does not cause focus to change. If you fail to focus using the AF/AE, and the focus is not correct, then pressing the shutter button will cause the camera to focus.

Have you tried shooting from the hip using AF and the swivel lcd of the G1. Vivek introduced this method and it really works for me.

Olympus stabilization is the main reason that I bought the Pen. I also have owned an E3 and love the Oly colors. These are two areas that the Panny's can't compare for my needs. Once there is an Oly M4/3 with an EVF, I will be very interested...if they price it right.

Terry, I think you gave a very fair assessment. Both systems have their pluses and minuses.
Thanks Cindy. Good suggestions on AF.

Best regards, Terry.
 

Diane B

New member
I have my G1 set so that I can AF with the AF/AE lock button. Once you press that button, the focus is removed from the shutter button and a half-press of the shutter does not cause focus to change. If you fail to focus using the AF/AE, and the focus is not correct, then pressing the shutter button will cause the camera to focus.
.
Cindy, I shot (well, still shoot) with my Canons with the focus on my * button (equiv to AE/AF) and metering on my shutter button for a long time. I'd love that option but I'll take the AF lock anyhow. I've been using the AE/AF for AE lock but I've found I prefer the AF lock there now also. You can refocus with it or use the shutter button (if you don't have AF lock hold on) so it give a lot of control for recomposing.

I have the GF1 set the same but haven't had a lot of shooting time with it. It seems as comfortable, so far, to use the buttons the same.

A pretty cool tip was given on another forum for using direct AF also--I guess I missed it in the manual :eek: :D. It requires a 2 button push, but its really easy (this is with direct AF off in menu and 4 way buttons working at default with regular functions). You simply click the left 4 way as we do for MF assist--then the fn. button and it gives you the moveable AF (where you can also change the size of the AF area). Both of these methods allow you to focus on an area that is not in the center without having to move the camera to recompose (well, actually the first ALLOWS you to recompose without losing focus)--nice when you are using a lens fairly wide open with quite shallow DOF.

Diane
 

Diane B

New member
OT Cindy

Are you still enjoying the GF1?? I'm (im)patiently waiting for the EVF--I know I will enjoy it a lot more with MF lenses, but otherwise, very nice camera and I like the button placement. BTW--at some point I've said this was a shoulder strap camera, but tried it yesterday with the GF1 strap (because none of my current straps had connections that would thread through the lugs) and found it awkward. Perhaps I would like the Y strap better and will try it this week. For now, the Gordy wrist strap went back on. I also found a small bag like you had (second pic) and it and the 20 went into it and into my rather small handbag. Worked fine. With another lens I'll have to go to a bit bigger handbag, but still not a 'camera bag' per se. And--the G!/GF1, all the lenses I want/need for travel fit really nicely into my Domke F6 (I think--little bit smaller Classic). I'll stick in the Terraclime most likely for day outings and carry a light kit most days.

Diane
 

Terry

New member
I look forward to the EVF as well but yesterday I didn't miss it. I know for me it is situational. Outdoors I was just concentrating on not blowing over :rolleyes:. To even try to stay steady I was braced on a medium height a wall with my upper arms/elbows trying to steady things and provide support.

I used the neckstrap yesterday in some of the darkest spots. I extended it out taught against my neck, turned the camera on burst and took a couple of shots in a row. In each case I got a good image and they were in the ISO 1600 1/8 and wide open which depends on the lens.

The button placement on the GF1 is perfect for me. Seems more streamlined and easy to get to what I want to use (better than the G1/GH1). I had the fn key set to aspect ratio but got a tip from Godfrey to set it to the gridlines. The second tip was using custom gridline option to put a vertical where ever I wanted on the screen to best line something up.

I started the thread about the AEL/AFL lock button on the Pen. I was using the GF1 similarly yesterday and while it works differently so you can use both methods (half press is still available if you aren't "locked") I think I now prefer the choice.

After using the GF1 it still boggles my mind that the Pen doesn't have a focus assist lamp. There was space because they put the self timer light on the front. This simply should be corrected in the next model. In the really dark areas at Fort Point it was very helpful.

There are functions in the Pen that I liked (spot metering for highlights and shadows the electronic level to name two). However, for the same reason I liked the M8 I don't feel like I'm missing them now as the level of complexity it adds to the interface isn't worth it to ME.


terry
 
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Cindy Flood

Super Moderator
OT Cindy

Are you still enjoying the GF1?? I'm (im)patiently waiting for the EVF--I know I will enjoy it a lot more with MF lenses, but otherwise, very nice camera and I like the button placement. BTW--at some point I've said this was a shoulder strap camera, but tried it yesterday with the GF1 strap (because none of my current straps had connections that would thread through the lugs) and found it awkward. Perhaps I would like the Y strap better and will try it this week. For now, the Gordy wrist strap went back on. I also found a small bag like you had (second pic) and it and the 20 went into it and into my rather small handbag. Worked fine. With another lens I'll have to go to a bit bigger handbag, but still not a 'camera bag' per se. And--the G!/GF1, all the lenses I want/need for travel fit really nicely into my Domke F6 (I think--little bit smaller Classic). I'll stick in the Terraclime most likely for day outings and carry a light kit most days.

Diane
Diane,
Yes, I really like the feel of the GF1. I, too, am impatiently waiting for an EVF. I am going to be very happy with a GF1 kit of 20mm and Pen-F 40mm in my purse. If I add the Pen-F 60mm or a zoom, I'll put it in the Terraclime. I'm grabbing micro 4/3 a lot more than my big DSLR kit these days.
 

Diane B

New member
some good thoughts here

I look forward to the EVF as well but yesterday I didn't miss it. I know for me it is situational. Outdoors I was just concentrating on not blowing over :rolleyes: To even try to stay steady I was braced on a medium height a wall with my upper arms/elbows trying to steady things.
Agree---totally situational. If I can shoot from shadow or shade, the LCD will work, but---for me---one of the things that I've found really helpful is to have the diopter on the EVF. I use fairly strong readers and they are a pain---I don't use my regular glasses for much more than distance, TV and movies--so don't usually wear them and have the reading part VERY small at the bottom for that reason. I usually just keep readers in my pocket LOL. The diopter on the EVF means no glasses at all--and really good detail for me--and stable with my MF lenses. But--I'll use the LCD in a lot of instances I know. Glad you didn't blow over :ROTFL::ROTFL:

I used the neckstrap yesterday in some of the darkest spots. I extended it out taught against my neck, turned the camera on burst and took a couple of shots in a row. I each case I got a good image and they were in the ISO 1600 1/8 and wide open which depends on the lens.
You told me that tip---and I used it in very very low light the same way--THAT is a good thing with the neck strap. Perhaps if I find the right one it could be an either/or thing--wrap the strap around my hand when I want to handcarry and use the neck strap for where its needed (and safety in precarious situations, like on water, high on a cliff--where I'm already uncomfortable :cry: )

The button placement on the GF1 is perfect for me. Seems more streamlined and easy to get to what I want to use (better than the G1/GH1). I had the fn key set to aspect ration but got a tip from Godfrey to set it to the gridlines. The second tip was using custom gridline option to put a vertical where ever I wanted on the screen to best line something up.
I'll try that--I have mine set to aspect ratio also.

.

After using the GF1 it still boggles my mind that the Pen doesn't have a focus assist lamp. There was space because they put the self timer light on the front. This simply should be corrected in the next model. In the really dark areas at Fort Point it was very helpful.
I love the focus assist.
terry[/QUOTE]

Diane

Diane - with my moderator super powers :ROTFL: I did some edits to make it more readable. Hope you don't mind. terry
 
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