E-P2 out

[47th_vacuum_space]

It appears to me that neither company is reaching their full potential in the micro 4/3 market. Olympus has the retro styling, in-body IS, but the EVF, no matter how good it may be, looks like a complete design afterthought. The Olympus menu system is far too complicated compared to the Panasonic. On the other hand, Panasonic has continuing serious channel distribution problems. Why is it so difficult for them to build to the demand?

I think m4/3 has proved more popular than either company imagined, and the market demographic a little different from the one they envisioned.

Also, I think Japanese users are probably less concerned than western users about the menu systems. We're coming from a German-camera mindset, in which things are simple but reliable...the Japanese market seems to value extra options over doing one thing well. That said, these cameras do seem to do most things very well.

 

[Vivek]

I think Pana and Oly with these cameras every six month or so with no major useful change are going to kill the m4/3rds system.

Where is that pink body m4/3rds camera with dedicated (but detachable) matching colored EVF, mic, etc?

 

[Diane B]

I think Pana and Oly with these cameras every six month or so with no major useful change are going to kill the m4/3rds system.

Where is that pink body m4/3rds camera with dedicated (but detachable) matching colored EVF, mic, etc?

I don't feel that. The 2 body styles gave us different options. As I've said--I feel I have 2 different shooting experiences with the G1 and GF1 (or the EP-1 if I had bought it). Probably the EP-2 should have been the EP-1--and the GH1 should have been the G1, but it did give us options and it brought people into the m4/3rds fold that perhaps wouldn't have tried one. The G1 got a number of us to consider one because the price was quite good (though at the time I remember people moaning about how 'expensive' it was in relation to small DSLRs) and it was our second system along with our DSLRs. I didn't feel unhappy with the G1 because the GH1 came out--nor did I feel unhappy being able to add the GF1. I do think Panasonic was just a little better attuned to the fact that the EVF was wanted and didn't have to backtrack with a very similar model.

Now--though I haven't abandoned my 5D kit, I rarely shoot with it and I carry 2 different m4/3rds bodies--still keeping me way below my Canon kit in size and weight.

 

[Vivek]

What we need is an EVF of this kind (matching colored skins would be a big hit):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8343941.stm

When I need decent DR and noise performance, I still have to reach out for bigger clunkier cameras. Not a problem since I have not ditched them yet.

 

[Cindy Flood]

What we need is an EVF of this kind (matching colored skins would be a big hit):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8343941.stm

...snip....

Why not just a pack of colored markers...especially, just for you, Vivek.:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Robert Campbell]

What we need is an EVF of this kind (matching colored skins would be a big hit):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8343941.stm

That's a Babelfish!

 

[Jonathon Delacour]

Perceptive observations by Thom Hogan on the EP-2 and Olympus:

mfbernstein wrote:

Are you suggesting that it [the EP-2] won't be well received, or...?
​

I'm suggesting that Olympus missed the boat. They did one thing--fix an implied weakness against a competitor--but nothing that would really extend the excitement of a pocketable large sensor camera. Indeed, their lens announcements go the other way (more system zooms). I'll go back to what I wrote when the E-P1 was announced: I don't think Olympus has correctly identified the actual purchaser of an E-P1. They were expecting some young person looking for a blog filler (stills, movies, etc.). They got me ;~).
In fact, this really goes back to the original 4/3 announcements: what Olympus promised and who they thought would be interested turned out to be not what they delivered and not who ended up buying those models, I think. There's a critical disconnect between customer and designer going on.

Any thoughts on the lenses? They seem to be going directly up against Panasonic (100% duplication rate!).
​

Well, so is the addition of an EVF. Guess what? Olympus is afraid of Panasonic. They think that the way to beat Panasonic is to make sure they have the same stuff. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. That's the way you ultimately give validation to and lose to the big boy.
​

So sad when one compares the genius of Mr Maitani with the mediocrity of the current Olympus designers. Or perhaps I'm being unfair and it's the classic case of marketing dictating to engineering what gets built. In any case, the end result is the same: the growth of m4/3rds is being unnecessarily constrained because Panasonic doesn't have to face a strong competitor.

 

[monza]

On the other hand, having well-received cameras and not shipping them seems to be a continuing problem with Panasonic. The LX-3 was announced in July '08 and it STILL is difficult for dealers to obtain...one can't build market share this way...

 

[Vivek]

There's a critical disconnect between customer and designer going on.

If those were Thom's words, I think he hit the nail on Olympus' marketing department.

Utterly clueless and continue to be so.

 

[Jonathon Delacour]

On the other hand, having well-received cameras and not shipping them seems to be a continuing problem with Panasonic. The LX-3 was announced in July '08 and it STILL is difficult for dealers to obtain...one can't build market share this way...

I've long wondered if because of the weak American dollar Panasonic may be following the strategy that Nintendo adopted with the Wii -- shipping more of their production to markets outside the US.

It's not difficult to buy the LX-3 or the G-series cameras in Australia, if one is willing to pay the local price. I guess the question is: are Panasonic cameras and lenses in short supply in Europe and Asia, as well as in the US?

 

[Jonathon Delacour]

If those were Thom's words, I think he hit the nail on Olympus' marketing department.

Utterly clueless and continue to be so.

Those are Thom's words and he's being saying the same thing ever since Olympus shipped the E-P1: Panasonic's efforts are being directed by someone with a photographer-centric focus whereas Olympus is, as you correctly point out, utterly clueless.

 

[Vivek]

AFAIK, the 7-14 zoom from Pana is still hard to find.

Everything else (lenses and such) also have a waiting period.

No clue on the GF-1 view finder. Have not even seen it listed anywhere.

Had it not been for monza (Robert), here, I would have no clue about its price (US $ or otherwise).

 

[RichA]

Rating the current micro 4/3rds offerings

If ever there was a group of cameras harder to rate against each other, they are it. However, for my own use I would rate them this way, taking into account performance and price:
1. G1 (by a wide margin)
2. GF1
3. GH1
4. E-P2
5. E-P1

Why? I have no use for video, we don't know if Olympus has improved the AF which means for me it comes down to a choice between what could probably still have slow, hunting AF (the E-P1 and likely E-P2) and having an EVF with higher resolution. The GH1 probably has the best sensor of the group, but an extra $1000 for a 14-140mm video-optimized lens I don't need or want is just too much.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

If those were Thom's words, I think he hit the nail on Olympus' marketing department.

Utterly clueless and continue to be so.

It's important to remember that the kind of people who discuss photography on internet fora, represent a very tiny fraction of the market. The EP-1 apparently sells like hotcakes, and I suspect that it has little to do with photographic qualities or ergonomics, but a lot to do with "coolness" factor.

A few friends of mind, whose photographic abilities are mostly limited to pointing the camera in the general direction of the subject and then push the shutter release, have bought it and are very pleased... with the looks :toocool:

They will never notice that an EP-2 has been released unless they need a black version to match the evening dress or tuxedo (and what is that little plastic thingy that came with the camera?).

 

[Vivek]

Unfortunately for me, the pink version was missing.

(I am yet to find a marker that would do a satisfactory pink, Cindy. :ROTFL

 

[madmaxmedia]

I guess the faux prism hump never bothered me as much as others LOL. It serves a purpose it seems--the GF1 and EP2 have HUGE 'humps' for their EVFs (though removable). I will say that I do like the grip also for a lot of shooting.

Yeah, it's not a 'faux prism' hump or a faux anything, it's actually an EVF/flash hump.

I think they could have shrunk the protruding lip somewhat with a different flash design, that part seemed a bit ornamental (and also easier to arrange with the flash.) But there's not that much room to shrink with the EVF. I doubt the had the viewfinder stick out the back on purpose.

Similarly, they could have made the grip smaller, but it doesn't protrude much more than even the 20mm pancake, so it's not like you'd really be reducing effective depth (with lens attached.)

 

[woodmancy]

Yeah, it's not a 'faux prism' hump or a faux anything, it's actually an EVF/flash hump.

I think they could have shrunk the protruding lip somewhat with a different flash design, that part seemed a bit ornamental (and also easier to arrange with the flash.) But there's not that much room to shrink with the EVF. I doubt the had the viewfinder stick out the back on purpose.

Similarly, they could have made the grip smaller, but it doesn't protrude much more than even the 20mm pancake, so it's not like you'd really be reducing effective depth (with lens attached.)

I guess that if you want a small micro 4/3 with...
. flash
. high res evf
. rotating LCD
. sensible grip
. easy controls and menu layout

...the the G1 is the best way anyone could do it - there is no competitor yet.

I love it.
I would love it better with on board IS, but that's why I have my E-P1

Keith

 

[Lili]

I think Pana and Oly with these cameras every six month or so with no major useful change are going to kill the m4/3rds system.

Where is that pink body m4/3rds camera with dedicated (but detachable) matching colored EVF, mic, etc?

LOL, what I find even more frustrating is Panny's seeming inability to supply enough cameras to sell. Right now on Amazon the GF-1 kits are selling for 2x the MSRP.
It may as well be vapor ware.
But the G-1 and GH-1 are available...go figure.

 

[Diane B]

LOL, what I find even more frustrating is Panny's seeming inability to supply enough cameras to sell. Right now on Amazon the GF-1 kits are selling for 2x the MSRP.
It may as well be vapor ware.
But the G-1 and GH-1 are available...go figure.

There are GF1s around though--I know the seller on Ebay is outrageous--hope no one is duped into buying there. Samy's on the west coast has had them pretty regularly, Robert/Monza had them--may still have the 14-45 kit, and I've seen links to various smaller stores all over the US that has them in stock--some on the shelves. Its hard to track them down though unless someone gives a link. I understand that Panasonic.com has been shipping them regularly also even though they say they are out of stock.

Diane

 

[monza]

Panasonic has a most unusual way of doing business. The 20mm lenses are going for $600 on Amazon. I don't know if anyone is actually buying them at that price...maybe when we get the next shipment I'll jack up the price and see what happens.

There are GF1s around though--I know the seller on Ebay is outrageous--hope no one is duped into buying there. Samy's on the west coast has had them pretty regularly, Robert/Monza had them--may still have the 14-45 kit, and I've seen links to various smaller stores all over the US that has them in stock--some on the shelves. Its hard to track them down though unless someone gives a link. I understand that Panasonic.com has been shipping them regularly also even though they say they are out of stock.

Diane