C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

[Photomorgana]

I have no qualms with your bias nor do the "cine" lenses interest me, especially for the current m4/3rds.

So why are you even saying anything if Cine lenses are not of any interest to you. I love using them especially on m4/3

 

[Photomorgana]

Would appreciate if you could elaborate as to why you prefer Angenieux to Xenon. From what I have seen, the price of a used Angenieux in assuredly excellent functional quality approaches twice the price of a brand new Xenon from B&H.

Amin,
I have never used Xenon 25/0.95 lens before nor could I find any samples online. Based on the price I would assume its good quality lens, but here is why I would have gone with Angenieux.
1. Proven cinematographic and photographic performance.
2. I like my Xenon 50mm f0.95, but I like my Angenieux 50mm 0.95 a bit better, especially the bokeh.
3. Price is about the same, ($1095 at B&H, you can have one of my Angenieux for the same money)
4. Better resale value, if you decide to get rid of it in the future.
5. Even in the best case scenario where Schneider 25mm CCTV lens uses the same glass as Schneider Cine lenses used to have, I would still go with Angenieux. I like Xenon, but I like S and P type Angeneiux better. (unless Xenon 25/0.95 is a super lens that much better than other Xenons)

If money is tight I would go for Angeneiux 25/1.4 which is probably better lens if f1.4 is all you need. (and it doesn't need as much cropping)

The thing is, as I was trying to explain before:
for decades the requirement for CCTV lens manufacturer was to lower the prices at quality expense, while the requirement for Cine lenses was improve the quality at any cost. That is why lots of semi-pro still shoot with Cooke and Kinoptik modified to PL mount, and students use Cooke, Angenieux and Switars on Bolex. (never seen them reaching for cctv lens)

Hope it make sense

(disclaimer - all of my preferences are based on strictly visual parameters, no scientific calculations or pixel pipping is involved)

 

[Vivek]

So why are you even saying anything if Cine lenses are not of any interest to you. I love using them especially on m4/3

If you look at some of the past posts/discussions/debates you would realize that some start wondering if I sell or promote something over the other or some others say that a negative post devalues their possessions.

On your conclusion based on CCTV lens sales- those were different cameras (no AA/IR cut filters) compared to the m4/3rds. That is what I said is incorrect.

I do have Angenieuxs and others. In my use they certainly do not fare better than the Fujinons, Computars or the Navitron on the G1.

 

[apicius9]

Hope it make sense

(disclaimer - all of my preferences are based on strictly visual parameters, no scientific calculations or pixel pipping is involved)

It does to me I would love to try the 50/0.95 Angenieux, but I may settle for a Nokton 50/1.5 down the road... To me it looks like the c-mount lens market has cooled off a little bit, prices are not as crazy as they used to be, except for a few prime pieces. Bad for me because I started selling off the ones I don't want to keep a bit late, but I'm not really complaining... The 20/1.7 has taken a lot of heat out of the c-mount market IMHO. Personally, I always felt like I missed the boat by not getting a Schneider Xenon 25mm when they were still affordable, but now I will eventually get the 20mm pancake and I'm sure I will be happy with it. I'm not even dreaming about the Switar 26/1.1, totally out of my price league these days. I sold a few 25mms that were really good and regret it a bit (Angenieux 25/0.95 B&H, the Angen. 25/1.4, the small 25mm Pentax etc) but I just couldn't afford keeping all of them and had bought them with the intention to only keep a few select ones. I am much more a user with an impulse control problem than a collector. I do not have enough experience with the CCTV lenses to really contribute much, but for me the fascination lies in the combination of the vintage glass and the new technology, and that just isn't the same with the 'modern' CCTV lenses. Of course, I still haven't modified my Computar 25/1.3, yet, maybe that will all change then

That being said, as someone who does not have cases full of old glass around, c-mounts are an interesting field to get started in. I also think some of the longer c-mount cine lenses are still great deals and make very nice and comparatively small primes on the m4/3. For example, the Schneider Tele-Xenars go for very reasonable prices on ebay and they are excellent. I also like the longer Kern Yvars. Sometimes you also still find surprises, I have a 25mm Apollo TV lens that I got for a few $$ and that is not bad at all. Personally, I think I am in the process of overcoming my gear hoarding syndrome and hope I will find more time to take pictures in the future Just waiting for the 3 ordered ones to come in, ordering a pancake lens and then I'm done for a while, I hope. Of course, I need another bag also...

Stefan

 

[RichA]

Another Toronto source

Good source for the high-end stuff, Angenieux, etc.


International Camera Repair Limited
(416) 255-3072
816 The Queensway, Etobicoke, ON
(800) 340-5937

 

[Photomorgana]

It does to me I would love to try the 50/0.95 Angenieux, but I may settle for a Nokton 50/1.5 down the road... To me it looks like the c-mount lens market has cooled off a little bit, prices are not as crazy as they used to be, except for a few prime pieces. Bad for me because I started selling off the ones I don't want to keep a bit late, but I'm not really complaining... The 20/1.7 has taken a lot of heat out of the c-mount market IMHO. Personally, I always felt like I missed the boat by not getting a Schneider Xenon 25mm when they were still affordable, but now I will eventually get the 20mm pancake and I'm sure I will be happy with it. I'm not even dreaming about the Switar 26/1.1, totally out of my price league these days. I sold a few 25mms that were really good and regret it a bit (Angenieux 25/0.95 B&H, the Angen. 25/1.4, the small 25mm Pentax etc) but I just couldn't afford keeping all of them and had bought them with the intention to only keep a few select ones. I am much more a user with an impulse control problem than a collector. I do not have enough experience with the CCTV lenses to really contribute much, but for me the fascination lies in the combination of the vintage glass and the new technology, and that just isn't the same with the 'modern' CCTV lenses. Of course, I still haven't modified my Computar 25/1.3, yet, maybe that will all change then

That being said, as someone who does not have cases full of old glass around, c-mounts are an interesting field to get started in. I also think some of the longer c-mount cine lenses are still great deals and make very nice and comparatively small primes on the m4/3. For example, the Schneider Tele-Xenars go for very reasonable prices on ebay and they are excellent. I also like the longer Kern Yvars. Sometimes you also still find surprises, I have a 25mm Apollo TV lens that I got for a few $$ and that is not bad at all. Personally, I think I am in the process of overcoming my gear hoarding syndrome and hope I will find more time to take pictures in the future Just waiting for the 3 ordered ones to come in, ordering a pancake lens and then I'm done for a while, I hope. Of course, I need another bag also...

Stefan

I agree the 20mm pancake took tons of pressure off the wide angle c-mounts. I could never find anything I could use under 25mm in c-mount anyway. I was looking for mint Cooke 18mm Arri mount, but now I don't even know if I will buy it, unless I find one really cheap. But in any case I will be buying 20mm pancake for sure as soon as my E-P2 arrives. Speaking of Nokton 50mm, its a great lens, sharp wide open, excellent performance, but I sold it and got Oly 42mm f1.2 instead (not as sharp wide open, but I love the feel of this lens) I like Oly lenses overall (Oly pen 65mm f1.5 is nice too a bit sharper wide open and sharper that 70/2) off the topic

You are right, prices are cooling off, but only on certain lenses (zooms and consumer level lenses that were overpriced) With more and more m4/3 bodies are being sold every day, I don't anticipate the drop on most of c-mount and arri-mount prime lenses. Most of the lenses I have been watching on ebay have only been going up in past 6 month or so. I remember a while ago you could see the Elgeet, Schneider and others selling for the same price as Switar, Cooke and Angenieux. So something gotta give... when I saw Switars 75/1.9 going for $250 I knew its not going to last. Its just a natural selection, cine lenses are going thru an evolutionary stages once again, survival of the brightest. Please don't take me wrong, I have nothing against Wollensak, Schneider, Kodak ect, they are great lenses and some of them are excellent, however Cooke, Kinoptik, Switar are more of a Leica/Zeiss class. Some people choose to argue about it and say they don't care about such and such, and thats alright, not all people "believe" in Leica and pray to Zeus (i ment Zeiss)

I need a new bag too, btw have you looked at Crampler, great product, I had one of their bags for many years and its very close to perfect. I will need a new bag for E-P2. (too bad there is no good photo stores in my area who would have their product on shelf to play with)

 

[Amin]

Amin,
I have never used Xenon 25/0.95 lens before nor could I find any samples online. Based on the price I would assume its good quality lens, but here is why I would have gone with Angenieux.
1. Proven cinematographic and photographic performance.
2. I like my Xenon 50mm f0.95, but I like my Angenieux 50mm 0.95 a bit better, especially the bokeh.
3. Price is about the same, ($1095 at B&H, you can have one of my Angenieux for the same money)
4. Better resale value, if you decide to get rid of it in the future.
5. Even in the best case scenario where Schneider 25mm CCTV lens uses the same glass as Schneider Cine lenses used to have, I would still go with Angenieux. I like Xenon, but I like S and P type Angeneiux better. (unless Xenon 25/0.95 is a super lens that much better than other Xenons)

If money is tight I would go for Angeneiux 25/1.4 which is probably better lens if f1.4 is all you need. (and it doesn't need as much cropping)

The thing is, as I was trying to explain before:
for decades the requirement for CCTV lens manufacturer was to lower the prices at quality expense, while the requirement for Cine lenses was improve the quality at any cost. That is why lots of semi-pro still shoot with Cooke and Kinoptik modified to PL mount, and students use Cooke, Angenieux and Switars on Bolex. (never seen them reaching for cctv lens)

Hope it make sense

(disclaimer - all of my preferences are based on strictly visual parameters, no scientific calculations or pixel pipping is involved)

Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter! For now, I think I'll just maintain. I do lust after those superfast normals, but it's just not a practical purchase for me at this time.

 

[apicius9]

I'm trying not to open the gates by getting more adapters, so I will probably pass on the Olympus lenses but I appreciate the recommendation. BTW, Amazon just told me the pancakes will ship earlier than expected, around Dec 10 for $399. Just in time for pictures under the tree

I just landed in Taipei and hope to get a few shots taken tomorrow before my conference begins, took the kit lenses and the Summicron 50 and - to stay on topic - the Switar 75 and a Canon 12/1.5 for the night market. Too lat for that today, too much time cramping in undersized airplane seats, G'night,

Stefan

 

[Photomorgana]

I just landed in Taipei and hope to get a few shots taken tomorrow before my conference begins, took the kit lenses and the Summicron 50 and - to stay on topic - the Switar 75 and a Canon 12/1.5 for the night market. Too lat for that today, too much time cramping in undersized airplane seats, G'night,

Stefan

Enjoy your trip to TPE, its a paradise for street photography!

 

[petermcwerner]

Not all Cine lenses are great either (kern 25/1.4 in particular and most of older SOM Berthiot are not top notch in my opinion)

Hi, I agree with your opinion on the Kern25/1.4. They made other lenses that are top on the g1, like the 26/1.1 Macro Switar and the 75mm/2.5 Yvar.

I am very critical when it comes to C-mount lenses, but one of my favorites is the 20mm/1.5 SOM Berthiot. Some examples here

 

[Photomorgana]

Hi, I agree with your opinion on the Kern25/1.4. They made other lenses that are top on the g1, like the 26/1.1 Macro Switar and the 75mm/2.5 Yvar.

I am very critical when it comes to C-mount lenses, but one of my favorites is the 20mm/1.5 SOM Berthiot. Some examples here

Nice samples and nice lens. I've never tried this one, but it is newer model. I don't like their old, pre-war lenses. (very low contrast)

 

[maxpiz]

Thank you for your post. Let's not forget that most C-mount cine lenses, while undoubtedly being of much higher optical quality than lenses made for those poor vidicon tubes, were designed for 16mm cameras, with a frame measuring 10.3 x 7.5mm and an image circle of 12.7mm. So image quality may not always be optimal right to the edge of a 4/3rds sensor measuring 17.3 x 13.0mm with an image circle of 21.6mm.
Cheers!
Abbazz

About this I'd like to know if I could have problems with this lens:

http://http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220532241750&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQE:1123

I would use it on my wonderful new Lumix GF1!
Thanks in advance

 

[kds315]

It has no focusing and the image circle does not cover the sensor.

 

[nugat]

This lens is for 2/3 inch TV sensor/tube. That is in fact a 11mm diagonal sensor/image circle which is even less than regular 16mm film (12.7 diagonal.) 4/3 sensor is 21.63mm diagonal or twice of the 2/3 inch.

 

[maxpiz]

It has no focusing and the image circle does not cover the sensor.

With that small focal I think that the lack of focusing is not a problem. At few centimeters is all in focus.
Yes, I think the circle of the image does not cover the sensor, but you think that there would be an obvious vignetting or something acceptable?
Bye

 

[nugat]

With that small focal I think that the lack of focusing is not a problem. At few centimeters is all in focus.
Yes, I think the circle of the image does not cover the sensor, but you think that there would be an obvious vignetting or something acceptable?
Bye

11mm diameter image circle in a 22mm diagonal rectangle 4/3 frame--well, answer yourself if it's acceptable "vignetting" for your purposes.
(the image circle illumination might be slightly larger than the 2/3 inch tube, something like 12-13 mm, still compare it to 22mm diagonal)

 

[maxpiz]

11mm diameter image circle in a 22mm diagonal rectangle 4/3 frame--well, answer yourself if it's acceptable "vignetting" for your purposes.
(the image circle illumination might be slightly larger than the 2/3 inch tube, something like 12-13 mm, still compare it to 22mm diagonal)

So, if I understood, the shots would all have a circle of half the picture frame?
If so, no, it is not acceptable!
Perhaps a 8mm lens might work better?
Anyway thanks for the answers!
Bye

 

[RichA]

I'm trying not to open the gates by getting more adapters, so I will probably pass on the Olympus lenses but I appreciate the recommendation. BTW, Amazon just told me the pancakes will ship earlier than expected, around Dec 10 for $399. Just in time for pictures under the tree

I just landed in Taipei and hope to get a few shots taken tomorrow before my conference begins, took the kit lenses and the Summicron 50 and - to stay on topic - the Switar 75 and a Canon 12/1.5 for the night market. Too lat for that today, too much time cramping in undersized airplane seats, G'night,

Stefan

As a side note, Olympus lenses are somewhat overrated, thanks to all the Canon FF users snapping them up (the OM lenses). But by way of comparison, just as an example, a Canon FD mount 100mm f2.8 S.S.C. portrait lens is as good if not better than an Olympus OM 100mm f2.8 and you can buy the Canon for under $100 while the Olympus will run you (now) at least $200.00. Canon lenses were tarred by the brush that says their wide angle lenses are all poor.

 

[sergio lovisolo]

RichA, the xenon 50 1:2 that you have shown in post #20 is a very fine lens. I tested it today vs. the summicron 50, and it is a better performer full open and at 5,6 center image and corners.

Full image

Summicron @ 2

Xenon @ 2

Summicron @ 5,6

Xenon @ 5,6

Regards

Sergio

 

[nugat]

Could you post a 100% crop of eg left-down corner please? TIA.