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C-Mount lenses - alternatives to Ebay?

Amin

Active member
Is Ebay the only source for C-mount lenses these days? If so, it is a bizarre market out there. It strikes me as extremely variable with regards to the amount of money people are willing to pay from one auction to the next for the same lens in largely unclear condition :confused:.

Anyone know someplace to buy C-mount lenses from a reputable seller who will be assuredly clear about the lens condition? I understand that prices have gone up a lot, and I can live with that, but I won't pay $1500 for a "mintish" old lens found at an estate sale and being sold by someone who "don't know about camera lenses".
 
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Irwell

Guest
Is Ebay the only source for C-mount lenses these days? If so, it is a bizarre market out there. It strikes me as extremely variable with regards to the amount of money people are willing to pay from one auction to the next for the same lens in largely unclear condition :confused:.

Anyone know someplace to buy C-mount lenses from a reputable seller who will be assuredly clear about the lens condition? I understand that prices have gone up a lot, and I can live with that, but I won't pay $1500 for a "mintish" old lens found at an estate sale and being sold by someone who "don't know about camera lenses".
Antique shops and thrift shops sometimes are worth
a look. I found a Wollensack for $5.00 at an antique
shop, on Ebay they were asking ten times this price.
 

RichA

New member
Is Ebay the only source for C-mount lenses these days? If so, it is a bizarre market out there. It strikes me as extremely variable with regards to the amount of money people are willing to pay from one auction to the next for the same lens in largely unclear condition :confused:.

Anyone know someplace to buy C-mount lenses from a reputable seller who will be assuredly clear about the lens condition? I understand that prices have gone up a lot, and I can live with that, but I won't pay $1500 for a "mintish" old lens found at an estate sale and being sold by someone who "don't know about camera lenses".
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l10128.html
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3943.html
 

Photomorgana

New member
Unfortunately no C-mount lenses are the same, due to the age and also due to the format itself. So buying from the store does not guarantee much. (unless its a bolex lens and you bought it directly from bolex Switzerland, but it will cost you way too much $$$)

I have had some great experiences with eBay, so I would not discount it. Just avoid certain sellers that have very brief descriptions. (Also avoid those with super inflated prices and lack of knowledge whatsoever.)

There are plenty of excellent eBayers with great descriptions, good pictures and great support behind their product. I found a few guys that are very helpful and I talk to them off eBay and even trade stuff with one guy, no problem. Send an email to the eBay seller with few questions and based on his/her reply you will see who you are dealing with. (very simple, but effective technique :)

Good luck.
 
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Abbazz

Guest
:) no, these are not the lenses you would want to use on your camera.
You need cine class lenses from distant past (1940-1980s)
Sorry but I beg to differ. I use the Pentax 25/1.4, which is not a bad lens at all (see this thread) and I wouldn't say that I would not use a Schneider Xenon on my camera.

Some cine lenses can be remarkable -- although I have a bunch of lemons in that category too -- but it's not fair to dismiss the CCTV lenses altogether, as some of them are really great: what about the Zeiss Televidon series?

Cheers!

Abbazz
 

Amin

Active member
Thanks everyone!

Has anyone seen samples of the Schneider Xenon 25/0.95 being sold at B&H used on a MFT camera? Does it cover as much of the frame as an Angenieux 25/0.95, for example?
 

Photomorgana

New member
I don't want to argue about qualities of CCTV vs Cinematographic lenses here, especially because I don't have a test data to compare. However, from my experience (working as a CCTV and Access Control Commodity Manager for one of the "Fortune's 50" company) I can reasonably conclude that Cine lenses should be substantially better than its CCTV counterparts.

1. CCTV cameras generally only built to resolve 320x240 resolution (640x240 considered an HD, and even Megapixel cameras are not too demanding for lens quality) Low resolution is a must due to the storage constrains. Yes there are super resolution CCTV cameras that have been very recently introduced, but they have special lenses, C-mount lenses with manual iris and manual focus were not build for them.

2. For decades big corporations considered CCTV lenses a Commodity and were demanding better pricing and not better quality and that is the reason the CCTV mnf do not use the same glass and other components that Cine customers have been enjoying.

Even though during my career I procured millions of dollar worth of CCTV lenses, I had limited hand-on interaction with them, since my job was on the corporate side. But based on feedback that I collected from 100s of field offices, the lenses they preferred were Bosch lenses (again irrelevant since camera resolution was very small) I only tried one Fujinon lens on my G1 once (not too happy with performance btw)

Regarding Schneider, I never tried or bought their CCTV lenses, but I did try plenty of Cine-Xenon and Cine-Xenar lenses. I liked most of them, (75mm f2 was one of the most memorable, and of course 50mm f0.95 which I still have in my collection) While I am not arguing that Xenon is a great lens design (cause its a copy of Cooke SP) I still don't know what will be the resolution that CCTV lens will produce.

Amin, for the price of Xenon 25mm f0.95, I would rather get Angenieux 25/0.95 (just my honest opinion)

Not all Cine lenses are great either (kern 25/1.4 in particular and most of older SOM Berthiot are not top notch in my opinion)

All that said, if you can't afford Cine lenses, go for CCTV, just make sure the C-mount lens has manual iris/focus and covers 1 inch CCD. I would go for it, but I am very lucky to inherit almost full Cooke and Kinoptik collection. (building Angenieux collection now)
 
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Vivek

Guest
1. CCTV cameras generally only built to resolve 320x240 resolution (640x240 considered an HD, and even Megapixel cameras are not too demanding for lens quality) Low resolution is a must due to the storage constrains. Yes there are super resolution CCTV cameras that have been very recently introduced, but they have special lenses, C-mount lenses with manual iris and manual focus were not build for them.
Your post is generally biased towards cine lenses but that statement is incorrect when it comes to the "system".

It is better to keep in mind that we are dealing with a sensor and not film.

One of the sharpest lenses I have in c-mount is a Navitron 75/1.3. I do not think this is ever sold as a "high resolution" lens.
 

RichA

New member
All that said, if you can't afford Cine lenses, go for CCTV, just make sure the C-mount lens has manual iris/focus and covers 1 inch CCD. I would go for it, but I am very lucky to inherit almost full Cooke and Kinoptik collection. (building Angenieux collection now)
There is a third, albeit expensive alternative, industrial and scientific CCD lenses with c-mounts. These are the only ones that actually guarantee you a specific resolution level, based on the camera's pixel size and count. Firms like Edmund Scientific in the U.S. sell them, some support sensors larger than 35mm size.
 
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Abbazz

Guest
I don't want to argue about qualities of CCTV vs Cinematographic lenses here
:)

Thank you for your post. Let's not forget that most C-mount cine lenses, while undoubtedly being of much higher optical quality than lenses made for those poor vidicon tubes, were designed for 16mm cameras, with a frame measuring 10.3 x 7.5mm and an image circle of 12.7mm. So image quality may not always be optimal right to the edge of a 4/3rds sensor measuring 17.3 x 13.0mm with an image circle of 21.6mm.

Cheers!

Abbazz
 

Photomorgana

New member
Your post is generally biased towards cine lenses but that statement is incorrect when it comes to the "system".

It is better to keep in mind that we are dealing with a sensor and not film.

One of the sharpest lenses I have in c-mount is a Navitron 75/1.3. I do not think this is ever sold as a "high resolution" lens.

I'm not hiding my bias towards cine lenses, just the same way I'm not hiding my excitement towards Leica, some Oly and Zeiss lenses. Please let me know what is incorrect in my post, its not clear to me what do you mean by dealing with sensor and not film.

I have used Navitar 75/1.3 (pretty good lens indeed) But you have to remember that Navitar made Cine lenses in the 1960-80s (D.O. Industries old Navitar was formed by former Bausch & Lomb engineer, and thats top US Cine brand) I don't know for sure, but maybe Navitar 75mm f1.3 was not even a 100% CCTV lens. (is there a link that says that Navitar 75/1.3 is a purely CCTV lens?)
thank you.
 

Photomorgana

New member
:)

Thank you for your post. Let's not forget that most C-mount cine lenses, while undoubtedly being of much higher optical quality than lenses made for those poor vidicon tubes, were designed for 16mm cameras, with a frame measuring 10.3 x 7.5mm and an image circle of 12.7mm. So image quality may not always be optimal right to the edge of a 4/3rds sensor measuring 17.3 x 13.0mm with an image circle of 21.6mm.

Cheers!

Abbazz
Exactly, and that is why we are coming to this forum to share out opinions on great lenses that work and do the job right.
Not all Cine lenses will work great on m4/3 and not all CCTV lenses will suck either (especially those that were originally designed for cine use) :)
 
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Amin

Active member
Amin, for the price of Xenon 25mm f0.95, I would rather get Angenieux 25/0.95 (just my honest opinion)
Would appreciate if you could elaborate as to why you prefer Angenieux to Xenon. From what I have seen, the price of a used Angenieux in assuredly excellent functional quality approaches twice the price of a brand new Xenon from B&H.
 
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Vivek

Guest
Please let me know what is incorrect in my post, its not clear to me what do you mean by dealing with sensor and not film.

I have used Navitar 75/1.3 (pretty good lens indeed) But you have to remember that Navitar made Cine lenses in the 1960-80s (D.O. Industries old Navitar was formed by former Bausch & Lomb engineer, and thats top US Cine brand) I don't know for sure, but maybe Navitar 75mm f1.3 was not even a 100% CCTV lens. (is there a link that says that Navitar 75/1.3 is a purely CCTV lens?)
thank you.
Somehow "cine" lenses are generally better is your conclusion. Despite me having specified the lens as a Navitron, you have to make a connection to "cine" lenses.

There were "cine" lenses and then there were "cine" lenses, just as there are CCTV lenses and CCTV lenses.

I have no qualms with your bias nor do the "cine" lenses interest me, especially for the current m4/3rds.:)
 

RichA

New member
Is Ebay the only source for C-mount lenses these days? If so, it is a bizarre market out there. It strikes me as extremely variable with regards to the amount of money people are willing to pay from one auction to the next for the same lens in largely unclear condition :confused:.

Anyone know someplace to buy C-mount lenses from a reputable seller who will be assuredly clear about the lens condition? I understand that prices have gone up a lot, and I can live with that, but I won't pay $1500 for a "mintish" old lens found at an estate sale and being sold by someone who "don't know about camera lenses".
Another source, in Toronto:

Electronic Surplus Industries
53 Sheffield Street,
North York, ON M6M 3E5
416-240-1950

I picked up this from there. The Schneider

 
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