My Ricoh GXR taste test...

[cam]

try chewing a little more slowly

It may be informative to this thread to let you know that I am a people and street shooter. The GXR may be good for still-life and landscapes, but it sucks at the things I take pictures of. I suppose if you have all day and the subject doesn't move, you might like the photos it takes.

okay... i totally understand it is NOT for you and your peeves about the camera are legit for using the camera for only 5 minutes...

however, in using the camera for a longer period of time, i did not have an issue using it for people/street photos -- things I take pics of as well. i kept it pretty much in Manual focus the whole time, Shutter Priority or full Manual for exposure... in a little bit of time, it became second nature and i was able t get the shots i wanted.

i am not dissing your opinion. i am simply stating that this camera should not be immediately dismissed if street is the goal... granted, a wider lens, non-macro, faster shutter would be better, but this is not chopped liver.

i ended up not getting one because i shoot this equivalent all the time on my M8 and the 35 Lux is superior to the A12 in every way. as i already own this combo, the GXR/A12 would be redundant even though i adore the silence. still, i was quite entranced by the camera.... not perfect, no, but a damned good start.

i look forward to the time they start coming out with modules that fit my needs.

 

[retow]

Re: try chewing a little more slowly

okay... i totally understand it is NOT for you and your peeves about the camera are legit for using the camera for only 5 minutes...

however, in using the camera for a longer period of time, i did not have an issue using it for people/street photos -- things I take pics of as well. i kept it pretty much in Manual focus the whole time, Shutter Priority or full Manual for exposure... in a little bit of time, it became second nature and i was able t get the shots i wanted.

i am not dissing your opinion. i am simply stating that this camera should not be immediately dismissed if street is the goal... granted, a wider lens, non-macro, faster shutter would be better, but this is not chopped liver.

i ended up not getting one because i shoot this equivalent all the time on my M8 and the 35 Lux is superior to the A12 in every way. as i already own this combo, the GXR/A12 would be redundant even though i adore the silence. still, i was quite entranced by the camera.... not perfect, no, but a damned good start.

i look forward to the time they start coming out with modules that fit my needs.

But the GXr has one sweet sensor......... No stranger to pleasing high iso performance (not meant as M8 bashing use one since 3 years, but....)

 

[cam]

Re: try chewing a little more slowly

But the GXr has one sweet sensor......... No stranger to pleasing high iso performance (not meant as M8 bashing use one since 3 years, but....)

and i don't take it as such... i, too, think the GXR is sweet and the high ISO quite stunning. (did i also mention how much i love the silence???)

i was just giving my opinion as someone who really enjoyed using the camera for street pics but decided to decline as it wasn't something i needed...

truth be told, in almost every instance i would pick up the M8 instead if i had both. and, although the GXR is much smaller than expected (beautifully sized, IMO), with the A12 it is too large to carry along as a secondary camera for the times i might need high ISO or silence. if i'm out into the night, i'll throw the Nocti in my bag.

if Ricoh comes out with a fast 28 (like the GRDIII) with a large sensor i will, most probably, be the first in line

 

[Vivek]

Again, no need to be "dissing" Brad's succinct post.

What he concluded in 5 or 6 sentences is being elaborated by many. I see more negatives about the GXR for one reason or other than a compelling case for its existence or a possible purchase.

Brad has already expressed the famous last words on it.

 

[bradhusick]

Thank you, Vivek.

Whenever I review a new product from a company with a good track record and I encounter something that's amiss, I try to seek a logical explanation of the situation. Perhaps there were good reasons why a company made the decisions it did. For many years I was a product manager in the computer software industry, so this is part of the process in designing and releasing products.

When I found the Ricoh GXR autofocus to be very slow I thought perhaps this camera was designed for taking photos of inanimate objects such as still-life and landscape and macro. When I encountered the unusable manual focus mode, I was truly confused as this defeats the purpose I believed the camera was designed to fulfill.

At this point without talking directly to Ricoh, I can only assume that the product managers decided that the release date was more important than the focusing performance of the camera. Making a date-driven decision is usually based on facing stiff competition and in this case I believe the micro-four-thirds cameras represent that competition.

The good news in most situations like this is that good companies like Ricoh often fix the shortcomings of the first release in the course of time. If they do this quickly their potential customer base will give them another try. If they take too long the market will have moved beyond them and their reentry will be extremely difficult.

As my wife the former attorney used to tell her clients about her work, "Good, fast, cheap... pick two."

Cheers.

 

[andrewteee]

There has been a lot of talk in this thread. Maybe, maybe too much talk. How about some pictures! I know a lot of folks have been anxious to see real-world examples of GXR/A12 pictures, myself included. This past weekend I took the camera for a photo walk in Berkeley's Tilden Park to put it through some paces.

These are DNGs converted in RAW Developer. Please keep in mind that these are part of an ongoing project to capture and document a particular trail in the park, and many are dark, underexposed images, a common theme in my work. Meaning, these are "real-world" shots for me, not camera test shots.

A few of them are Sigma DP2 shots (the ones with the 3/2 ratio), the rest are the GXR/A12.

On to the pictures...

 

[bradhusick]

Andrew, thanks for posting pics. Perhaps we should have these in a "Fun with GXR" thread. This thread was simply meant to convey my quick impressions of the camera.

Also, please don't strip out all the EXIF data - the data help us understand the photos better.

 

[andrewteee]

When I export out of RAW Developer I guess it does not include the EXIF data. I'm sure it has that as an option. At any rate, when posting pics to my site I'm not concerned with technical attributes, just the picture itself. For forum postings I'll try to remember to export a version with EXIF data intact.

I agree with you on a GXR picture thread, but sometimes when threads get very serious I think that as photographers we need to remind ourselves that at some point it's all about the imagery and not so much about the words : )

 

[bradhusick]

I agree. Except when the imagery is the picture of Benjamin Franklin on the twenty one-hundred-dollar bills Ricoh wants for the camera, two lenses and EVF! Then I want ALL the info I can get!

 

[ecsh]

Putting the sensor on the lens killed it for alot of people. If they make the sensor better in a year, you need to buy the same lens again? Boy, what a marketing stratergy in their favor<G> I for one appreciate the quick, concise "review" Brad gave us, no fluff, all substance.

 

[barjohn]

ecsh, how is that different than if Leica offers a new 35mm Sumilux? Even if it is improved that doesn't mean you have to toss the 35mm Sumilux you already have. If they offered the same focal length with a new improved sensor one could decide whether the improvements are sufficient to meet their needs or not and stay with what they have. The same will be true of the Sumilux. Look at Nikon or Canon, they often have more than one offering in the same focal length. In other words, you are making more out of this than it warrants. In all likelihood they will focus on new focal lengths first to expand the range of the system before they go back to the same FL and just change out the sensor.

 

[bradhusick]

I agree John. It's all down to whether you think upgrading is worth the price, regardless whether they attached the sensor to the lens or not. It's certainly a clever approach and perhaps they will get the combo right someday.

 

[Terry]

I think it is actually more complex than just deciding to upgrade a lens. If there are any changes in technology and the way data is communicated to the body (better throughput) or something else and Ricoh wants to introduce a new body, you are either stuck or they have to make all future bodies backwards compatible.

 

[jonoslack]

I think it is actually more complex than just deciding to upgrade a lens. If there are any changes in technology and the way data is communicated to the body (better throughput) or something else and Ricoh wants to introduce a new body, you are either stuck or they have to make all future bodies backwards compatible.

Hi Terry
I'm sure you're right. Even if they can use the same body, you end up with a series of lenses with different sensors with different characteristics - of course, that could be a bonus, but I think it's more likely to be a PIB.

On the other hand, it's a brave and interesting move by Ricoh, and they certainly deserve to be given some credit for it.

 

[simonclivehughes]

I would think that at some point, the body will have been outgrown by what the latest lens/sensor package requires. I just find it hard to imagine that the engineers can have created the "all singing, all dancing" body that would be required to keep pace with future technology advances.

Don't get me wrong, I love what Ricoh has shown in the past (I had both the GRD and GRD2) and I think they are more in tune with photographers than any other company out there WRT the interface.

Personally, I am so happy with my G1/GH1/GF1 that I see no need to get the Ricoh. And coming from a confirmed gear-a-holic, that is saying something.

Cheers,

 

[barjohn]

I have to admit that my initial reaction to some of these issues was not dissimilar from many of the posts here. Using the A12 module has changed my mind despite its shortcomings though I think they must address some of these to keep me as a longer term customer. I also thought their S10 module made no sense since a larger sensor is what was driving me toward the product. However, I found out during Thanksgiving that I wanted something even smaller than the GF1 to carry that would still give me high quality images so I purchased a Canon S90. The images from the camera were very good for a small sensor camera and the interface was pretty good too. However, I quickly discovered that the barrel distortion was horrendous. Further, when working from RAW files, neither LR 3 Beta or C1 V5 provided any correction. This created the dilemma on whether to keep the S90 and wait for someone to offer correction, buy a 3rd party lens correction program or return the camera. I decided to return it. This leads me to the S10 module. I decided t order and try one. It completely changes the character of the camera without changing the way you work with it. It becomes lighter and smaller and the 24mm field of view is just great. So in one camera I am now getting two, a smaller lighter P&S and a heavy hitting APS_C large sensor camera. Both have the same user interface and high quality construction and produce DNG raw files along with JPGs.

Will the body eventually require a replacement as technology advances? I would say yes but it should be fairly easy to offer downward compatibility with older lens/sensor combinations and would support newer higher performance technology combinations. While one can't predict pricing that far out for something that does not exist, I think it is safe to guess it will actually cost less because competition in this segment of the market is increasing and they will have to stay competitive.

 

[andrewteee]

Given how new the GXR system is it will be a long time before any upgrades are offered. And upgrades are never required, but they're available if one so chooses.

The GXR body design is based on the long-standing designs of the GR (35mm film)/GX/GRD. That is not likely to change, nor IMO should it, since I like it so much It is compact, light, very solid, and feels good in the hand.

The rest is just software, which is easily updatable, the units, and the connection. The system approach of the GXR allows for far more flexibility and expandability than any other current system (except possibly for the Red camera). With virtually any other digital camera system about all you can change is the lens. The GXR, for better or worse, goes far beyond that. So what if you are offered an upgrade to the sensor in a new A12 unit? At least you could have that option! You don't get it from anyone else unless you buy an entire new camera (or are into digital medium format).

Ricoh is not interested in pleasing the masses, but for a contingent of photographers, most of whom probably already use and like Ricoh cameras, they are offering a bold, clever approach with a universal familiarity.

I have no idea where the GXR system will go or if it will last, but for now it's a lot of fun.

 

[Greg Seitz]

Well, I thought I'd chime in on this one. I was initially very skeptical of the system when announced but was looking for something more than the micro 4/3rds system. The micro 4/3rds cameras while technically fine just feel lifeless to me no matter which lens/body combination I've tried.

So, while still looking for a compact high quality system I decided to give the GXR with the A12 a try. Many of the complaints are valid, the biggest one being the autofocus struggling with the A12 in low light (the S10 however is quick and accurate) but there is much to like beyond the surface.

For me, the camera stands far above the Panasonic and Olympus in build quality and ergonomics. It was clearly designed by photographers for photographers vs the design by marketing committee feeling that I get from the micro 4/3rds cams. It's the kind of camera I simply want to pick up and use because it's so damn fun which I just haven't felt about the micro 4/3rds cameras.

The camera has been proven to be quite usable even with its limitations. It's easy to zone focus by distance or prefocusing the A12 for a specific point. Switching in and out of manual focus is one quick button press as it should be. I certainly don't consider myself a hard core street shooter but I had very few issues in getting plenty of good shots. Shooting static subjects is simply not an issue.

Beyond the wonderful build and ergos of the camera what I love is the quality of the photos. The A12 produces great stuff all the way up to ISO 3200. The lens reminds me very much of the Zeiss 50mm f/2 Makro Planar that I use on my Canon system only the A12 has sharper corners from wide open. After starting with the A12 and letting my wife spend some time with it she decided to get herself one with the S10 module to replace her Canon S90. She absolutely loves it. The S10 with it's smaller sensor behaves very differently and is a very quick performer when it comes to autofocus. The quality of the S10 photos matches the S90 for ISO performance and betters it with it's lens.

Anyways, enough rambling so here are some shots with both sensors...

A12 - ISO 3200 - f/2.5

A12 - ISO 1600 - f/3.2

S10 - ISO 800 - f/2.5

A12 - ISO 200 - f/3.5

S10 - ISO 100 - f/2.5

A12 - ISO 200 - f/2.5

A12 - ISO 200 - f/2.5

A12 - ISO 3200 - f/2.5

A12 - ISO 2167 - f/2.5

A12 - ISO 1671 - f/2.5

 

[Vivek]

Nice samples, Greg!

 

[retow]

GXR with A12, the first two iso 3200, f4.0, no PP, in camera jpegs. The next two are at iso 200, f5.6.