Nikon-->m4/3 TILT adapter arrived

[greypilgrim]

Took a while getting here from Italy. As promised, here are some early results. These are horrible shots, but they (I hope) demonstrate the effects of the adapter with a 50 f1.8 and a 20 f3.5.

The first two shots are next to a jinfinance nikon adapter. The purpose of the ruler is to show that this adapter is slightly shorter than the jinfinance one. This means that it is even further off the infinity mark for focus, so close focusing is compromised. The second of these shots gives a little idea of the delta in length.

After those shots are three with the 50 and then three with the 20. In order, they are tilted down, not tilted, and tilted upwards. The thing I immediately noticed is the shift in the focal point while tilting. I left that in the images so it could be seen rather than readjusting to the same focal point. I wasn't expecting it, although I guess it makes sense.

I am hoping to get out this weekend to do some real shooting (first non rain for quite a while this weekend).

Doug

 

[f6cvalkyrie]

Nice find !

Could you share where you got it from ?

C U
Rafael

 

[Vivek]

Doug, The shift in focus, I have mentioned it before, requires a shift mechanism to adjust.

Also, you would find the 20mm (I find ~18mm near perfect) more useful for the m4/3rds while using movements.

The going past infinity that you mention would come in handy while titlting.

How much tilt does the adapter offer?

 

[pellicle]

Doug

nice to see ... thanks for posting. I happen to disagree with the above assesment. My understanding of this is that it is caused by the tilt mechanism not being about the nodal point of the lens (as say on a camera which supports center tilt properly. The Canon TS-E series do this properly, as do many view cameras. That mechanism however works differently.

I would be interested to know how well it works if you instead were to "fix" the lens and consider that the focal plane (eg the camera back) was tilting about the ball. This will require you to adjust the tripod (our mount the lens). This would effect more a rear tilt (rather than a lens tilt) which I think is closer to what that mechanism does (looking at where the ball pivot is).

 

[woodmancy]

Doug

nice to see ... thanks for posting. I happen to disagree with the above assesment. My understanding of this is that it is caused by the tilt mechanism not being about the nodal point of the lens (as say on a camera which supports center tilt properly. The Canon TS-E series do this properly, as do many view cameras. That mechanism however works differently.

I would be interested to know how well it works if you instead were to "fix" the lens and consider that the focal plane (eg the camera back) was tilting about the ball. This will require you to adjust the tripod (our mount the lens). This would effect more a rear tilt (rather than a lens tilt) which I think is closer to what that mechanism does (looking at where the ball pivot is).

I've posted a few pictures from this adapter using Pentax M42 lenses. Most of them are in the Photograph your Bokeh thread

Keith

 

[m3photo]

Re: M4/3 TILT adapters

Could you share where you got it from ?

Rafael, they talked about it in this thread:
http://www.forums.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13093

The guy's website with the corresponding article is here:
http://www.adrianololli.com/articolo.asp?ID=3107

 

[f6cvalkyrie]

Thanks, Michael, I completely missed that topic because I was in Russia for winter holidays at that time !

Seems like a nice accessory, but almost as expensive as some second hand Nikkor glass on the evilbay ....

C U,
Rafael

 

[greypilgrim]

Doug, The shift in focus, I have mentioned it before, requires a shift mechanism to adjust.

Also, you would find the 20mm (I find ~18mm near perfect) more useful for the m4/3rds while using movements.

The going past infinity that you mention would come in handy while titlting.

How much tilt does the adapter offer?

Vivek,
I must have missed that thread. Did you make your own adapter or buy one? Until this one showed up, I was seriously considering trying to cobble one together. Is the shift requirement normal for T/S lenses? Or something about how this adapter is working?

I wish I had an 18mm to work with as I agree, but 20 is the widest I go on my nikkors (except for a 12-24 Tokina zoom, but that has no aperture ring).

I also have a 24 f2.8 (one of my favorite on film, but not digital)
a 28 f2 (a favorite but has CA which I imagine would be exacerbated by tilt)
a 35 f2 (classic lens, might be fun to try)
a 45 f2.8 (could be interesting)
and the 50 f1.8 (worked better than I expected)

I am also going to try the 20 with my k1 extension ring for some closeups.

Doug

 

[greypilgrim]

Doug

nice to see ... thanks for posting. I happen to disagree with the above assesment. My understanding of this is that it is caused by the tilt mechanism not being about the nodal point of the lens (as say on a camera which supports center tilt properly. The Canon TS-E series do this properly, as do many view cameras. That mechanism however works differently.

I would be interested to know how well it works if you instead were to "fix" the lens and consider that the focal plane (eg the camera back) was tilting about the ball. This will require you to adjust the tripod (our mount the lens). This would effect more a rear tilt (rather than a lens tilt) which I think is closer to what that mechanism does (looking at where the ball pivot is).

Not sure I could mount the lens as these are quite short lenses I am working with. I do have one extension ring that has a lens mount, but it would be > 1:1 even with my 50mm... And readjusting the tripod would seem to be a more hit or miss proposition. With my ballhead and the center post, I do have some flexibility to recompose, and I suspect I will just have to do that until I et the composition where I like... Which sounds a lot like standard shooting anyway .

Not sure about the nodal point issue you mentioned although it makes a certain amount of intuitive sense. I should go back to my physics and figure out the optics I guess, just for fun... Real world, I suspect that the empirical method will get me where I want to go ...

Doug

 

[greypilgrim]

Thanks, Michael, I completely missed that topic because I was in Russia for winter holidays at that time !

Seems like a nice accessory, but almost as expensive as some second hand Nikkor glass on the evilbay ....

C U,
Rafael

Rafael,
I have never seen a tilt lens go for anywhere close to $215 which is what this coast me. Nikkors, never. I have seen some Canons modified to Nikon mount that I have seen hit ~$500. There are some Arsat or Hartblei that I have seen, but they were both heavy and seemed to be macro only. This gives infinity focus. And, with the nikkors I am using plus the adapter, the length of the overall "lens" is pretty much the same as my kit lens, so I am keeping it small. Plus, I can use my extension rings to get closeup tilts as well as without for landscapes.

But, I would be curious what you saw on evilbay that you wree referring to.

Thanks,

Doug

 

[greypilgrim]

Doug, The shift in focus, I have mentioned it before, requires a shift mechanism to adjust.

Also, you would find the 20mm (I find ~18mm near perfect) more useful for the m4/3rds while using movements.

The going past infinity that you mention would come in handy while titlting.

How much tilt does the adapter offer?

Oops, missed the question.

8 degree tilt, it looks like.

And the going past infinity helping the tilt makes sense. Good point.

Doug

 

[f6cvalkyrie]

But, I would be curious what you saw on evilbay that you wree referring to.

I wasn't referring to T/S Nikkors, Doug, just standard lenses.
I just realised that I could do the T/S in macro setups using the mechanisms of my PB-4 bellows.


C U,
Rafael

 

[pellicle]

Hi Doug

Not sure I could mount the lens as these are quite short lenses I am working with.

sorry if my description was unclear, when I said:

I would be interested to know how well it works if you instead were to "fix" the lens and consider that the focal plane (eg the camera back) was tilting about the ball.

I was of course being figurative. I'll just delete the part in brackets

So, "pretend" you are mounting the lens, but in reality keep the camera mounted on the tripod.

By hand this is much easier, but the point is to hold the lens and pivot the camera on that ball. So say you're looking down at the ruler, instead of pulling the lens so that it falls down, you will first angle the camera back in the tripod as if you were looking up a little missing the ruler.

Then you pull the lens down to bring the ruler back into view and focus.

This is because the pivot is closer to the camera.

You said you were using a 50mm lens, well more or less the middle of that lens is the nodal point, if you were using front tilt you would pivot around its axis. However that adapor is made like a lensbaby (which is a difficult design to work with as a photographer, but simple and cheap to make as an engineer).

Essentially what you have is a mini view camera with very restricted movements (compared to a view camera, the camera body (and its sensor) is the back, and the lens is on the front.

Look at your system all put together and you'll see what I mean that the pivot is much closer to the camera body than it is the middle of the lens ... right?

So, give that a try and see if you get a different result?

alternatively skip the tripod and hold the lens / adaptor in your hand, work off the rear screen and pivot the camera while holding the lens.

because none of this system has been properly designed some resetting of focus may be needed ... this happens with view cameras which use base tilt (like mine).

Mean time if you want to, try reading this page.

 

[greypilgrim]

Hi Doug

I was of course being figurative. I'll just delete the part in brackets

Or perhaps I was being too literal . That would be the daytime engineer coming out...

Hi Doug
So, "pretend" you are mounting the lens, but in reality keep the camera mounted on the tripod.

By hand this is much easier, but the point is to hold the lens and pivot the camera on that ball. So say you're looking down at the ruler, instead of pulling the lens so that it falls down, you will first angle the camera back in the tripod as if you were looking up a little missing the ruler.

Then you pull the lens down to bring the ruler back into view and focus.

This is because the pivot is closer to the camera.

You said you were using a 50mm lens, well more or less the middle of that lens is the nodal point, if you were using front tilt you would pivot around its axis. However that adapor is made like a lensbaby (which is a difficult design to work with as a photographer, but simple and cheap to make as an engineer).

Essentially what you have is a mini view camera with very restricted movements (compared to a view camera, the camera body (and its sensor) is the back, and the lens is on the front.

Look at your system all put together and you'll see what I mean that the pivot is much closer to the camera body than it is the middle of the lens ... right?

Makes sense intuitively. I will have to see how it plays out in real world situations to help me mentally connect the dots.

Hi Doug
So, give that a try and see if you get a different result?

Definitely the plan

Hi Doug
alternatively skip the tripod and hold the lens / adaptor in your hand, work off the rear screen and pivot the camera while holding the lens.

Planning to try both. There are definitely some specific shots I want to try that are not tripod possible.

Hi Doug
Mean time if you want to, try reading this page.

Been there already, have it bookmarked. Have to revisit after I have experienced it in the real world.

Thanks for taking the time for a thorough, informative response.

Much appreciated,

Doug

 

[greypilgrim]

I wasn't referring to T/S Nikkors, Doug, just standard lenses.
I just realised that I could do the T/S in macro setups using the mechanisms of my PB-4 bellows.


C U,
Rafael

Rafael,
Ahh, that makes sense.

The reason I bought the adapter was of course for getting a poor man's version of a tilt lens, something in all my years shooting I have never had the money to try out. Should be fun.

Doug

 

[Vivek]

Doug, I look forward to your experiences with this adapter. I am sure you will find it enjoyable.

Mine- there are a few- I have been using a self constructed 28mm T/S lens on Nikon (APS-C) for a few years now. Unfortunately, this did not work well for m4/3rds *for my purposes*.

I have shown these samples (taken with a G1 and a 24mm T/S lens) a while ago:

(handheld, shake. )

During this travel, somewhere along the road, I found 18mm to be suitable for distant subjects (for macro, any FL would work) (yes, I am talking about street photography ).

I also have a special (tiny) bellows that offers every movement possible in front and rear standards- converting the G1 into a mini view camera. This, of course, is for studio use. I also have a PB-4 but it offers less movements.

 

[Diane B]

Rafael,
Ahh, that makes sense.

The reason I bought the adapter was of course for getting a poor man's version of a tilt lens, something in all my years shooting I have never had the money to try out. Should be fun.

Doug

Just reading this--having only a Canon 45 f/2.8 TS (and coveting the 17 and new 24 even now LOL), I've only used tilt with that (and shift) controlled by a knob moving it down or up by degrees--and then one can rotate the lens to move that 'wedge' of focus within the image

example on the G1 with it rotated to about 45 deg I'm guessing and the focus 'wedge' area controlled by the aperture (f/2.8 here)

or maybe more evident here where it was just rotated a bit off perpendicular again at f/2.8 on G1

I think I would find it challenging to use tilt to increase the effect of deeper DOF (which is how I usually used the TS with my 5D) with a ball/socket as my Lensbaby (above were done more for selective focus) where I can control the amount of area in focus with aperture, but the ball socket doesn't give me the control to have focus from fore to selected subject--or within a determined area.

This is the type of focus area I get with the LB/ball and socket.

.

I guess my question is---do you start out with your lens set horizontal and then gradually increase your tilt to increase your area of focus within the parameters you have decided??--or try to arrive at it more randomly. I'm trying to imagine using tilt for other than selective focus on a ball/socket.

Diane

 

[kainekainekaine]

Does this work the same as a tilt shift lense that they use for architecture? I.e. when they make the buildings lines more parallel? Cheers

 

[Diane B]

Does this work the same as a tilt shift lense that they use for architecture? I.e. when they make the buildings lines more parallel? Cheers

That requires the shift--where you focus horizontally and then move the lens up/down to correct the perspective. With that I use a grid screen to aid in making the correction.

Diane

 

[Vivek]

I guess my question is---do you start out with your lens set horizontal and then gradually increase your tilt to increase your area of focus within the parameters you have decided??

Diane, Deliberate (time permitting- the key) (all old Nikon APS-C captures)

28mm f/2.8

28mm f/8 (portrait at f/8!!)

28mm f/11 (close-up)- more than 8 deg tilt!

PC Micro Nikkor 85/2.8 wide open.