4/3 will displace DSLR for "leisure" shooters wanting high image quality

[tom in mpls]

Re: 4/3 will displace DSLR for "leisure" shooters wanting high image quality

Great post, but why stop at DSLR.
Replace the M8 and M9 Leica. Less cost and if you can replace a DSLR why not the M 8&9?
The IQ should be good enough for replacement of just about all Digital Cameras, especially if the m43 contiues to develope as others have said.
We could do away with Medium Format as well.
It seem that the weight of the camera and lenses is the main concern. One format, one solution and we can all shoot the same gear and look the same.
Wonderful way to go.
I'm ready to make the move.

Is this tongue in cheek? If you read my first post, you know that I am referring to the huge number of shooters who want pics better than P&S who now use DSLR's (I assume mostly the "entry level" DLSRs). As I said, pros as well as many amateurs who want more will stay with DSLR. Or MF. Most of us on this forum demand a lot from our equipment and I bet most will keep a DSLR. Yet there are some of us who are relieved to find high performance in a smaller package. Did I suggest that we could, or should, "do away" with all other formats? Don't be absurd.

Also, "we all shoot the same gear" now! Don't we all look alike now with our big black DSLR's and big black lenses? (OK, some Canons lenses are white)

BTW, don't think that I haven't wondered if I should sell the M9 and stick to mFT. But I won't. At least at present.

 

[Amin]

Re: 4/3 will displace DSLR for "leisure" shooters wanting high image quality

I agree totally ... the E-410 for example weighs about 435g, not too dissimilar from Oly E-P series in weight ... then when you add a 25mm pancake (which costs about half of the "mythical" Pana 20mm pancake and weighs 95g which interestingly is actually 5g less than the Pana) you then get a very nice compact little camera for a lot less.

I'm a fan of the E-4xx series, and I like the ZD 25/2.8. However, I think your comparison here could be viewed a different way, which is that for 5 grams of weight, one gains two full stops of speed using the MFT system.

 

[monza]

Re: 4/3 will displace DSLR for "leisure" shooters wanting high image quality

I am looking forward to the day when a pocket digital can provide equivalent image quality as a big DSLR. In other words, how about a 5D or D700 or A900 or M9 sensor in a GF1-sized camera?

It appears we are still a long way from that happening...and maybe it never will happen.

In the mid 90s one could buy a high quality pocket 35mm film camera like a Contax T2 with a fantastic fast 38mm lens. A photo taken with that camera would be indistinguishable from a photo taken with the same film using a 35mm lens on a professional SLR, enlarged to the same size, because both cameras had the same 'sensor.'

As much fun as I've had shooting with a G1, there is just no way it's going to provide the IQ of a full frame DSLR like a 5D. Certainly for many people the IQ is quite good and certainly more than acceptable, I don't want to discount how good the G1 is. But it will simply never match a much larger sensor.

When it comes to sensors, size *does* matter...which is why many (most?) of us here have multiple cameras for different situations.

Interestingly I find myself shooting more film and less digital lately. I haven't shot my GH1 in a few weeks. It's so nice to have all that latitude! Underexpose yet not lose shadow detail; overexpose yet not blow highlights.

 

[tom in mpls]

Re: 4/3 will displace DSLR for "leisure" shooters wanting high image quality

As much fun as I've had shooting with a G1, there is just no way it's going to provide the IQ of a full frame DSLR like a 5D. Certainly for many people the IQ is quite good and certainly more than acceptable, I don't want to discount how good the G1 is. But it will simply never match a much larger sensor.

When it comes to sensors, size *does* matter...which is why many (most?) of us here have multiple cameras for different situations.

Even as this thread evolves, I am understanding my own question better. Perhaps it is more accurate to say that we are seeing the advent of small/light/compact cameras in cropped (APS and 4/3) as well as FF sensors (M9). Good and very, very good. Choose your price point and needs, and there is an option to big DSLR's. This is a great time for digital; we are seeing the technology ripen. We CAN choose a small camera without forfeiting quality.

Interestingly I find myself shooting more film and less digital lately. I haven't shot my GH1 in a few weeks. It's so nice to have all that latitude! Underexpose yet not lose shadow detail; overexpose yet not blow highlights.

"Digital film", that is, sensors AND camera firmware, still have a lot of room for improvement. I firmly believe there will be improvement in these ares, and in other aspects of digital as well. One might hope that the megapixel wars are mostly over, and R&D will focus on these other areas. I understand the appeal of film, but for me, being able to use my digital darkroom means I will not go back to film.

 

[monza]

Re: 4/3 will displace DSLR for "leisure" shooters wanting high image quality

Yes, sensors and the code will get better and better, no question...but the laws of physics remain...so all other things being equal, a larger sensor will always win.

My darkroom is digital, too, even with film. It helps to have a fantastic scanning service and lab just down the hall.

 

[tom in mpls]

Re: 4/3 will displace DSLR for "leisure" shooters wanting high image quality

Yes, sensors and the code will get better and better, no question...but the laws of physics remain...so all other things being equal, a larger sensor will always win.

I expect the MF's and S2 series will always stand head and shoulders above. LF and MF for film were always the best for the quality of images they could capture; it's hard to disagree with your argument about the physical sensor size.

 

[pellicle]

Re: 4/3 will displace DSLR for "leisure" shooters wanting high image quality

Hi

...that's the realm of just those people interested in that I suspect--and will never float down to the majority of people buying cameras.

totally ... the masses who buy don't read anything and ask the salesman which is the best.

 

[pellicle]

Re: 4/3 will displace DSLR for "leisure" shooters wanting high image quality

I think your comparison here could be viewed a different way, which is that for 5 grams of weight, one gains two full stops of speed using the MFT system.

true, but I was simply talking size and weight. I was not trying to say the 20mm f1.8 is an inferior lens. Just that the e-4xx cameras are quite compact and DSLR

 

[pellicle]

Re: 4/3 will displace DSLR for "leisure" shooters wanting high image quality

Hi

I am looking forward to the day when a pocket digital can provide equivalent image quality as a big DSLR. In other words, how about a 5D or D700 or A900 or M9 sensor in a GF1-sized camera?

It appears we are still a long way from that happening...and maybe it never will happen.

me too ... perhaps it will .. perhaps it wont. I suspect that IQ is the factor that drives the market and understanding / comprehension of formats is out of the equation.

I have a bessa 6x9 folder. This is relatively a compact camera to carry, though a little cumbersome to use. The thing is that a GF / E-Px camera will time and time again produce better 8x10 images than the Bessa does and gets better exposures more consistently than people did on their Bessas

I personally like larger formats some of the time for creating shallow depth of field, but I feel that for many people those situations are few (and for some never).

I see we've been gradually evolving our cameras to our needs and our available technology over time. I think we've already hit rock bottom with the tiny sensors available in $100 supermarket point n shoots, yet these perform much better than the similar point n shoots at that price point back in the 35mm or 110 daze (god forbid we mention Kodak Disc)

For specialists there will remain the cameras such as the HD4 Hassleblad or Mamiya 645, these buyers are not only after pixels and IQ but dealing with larger formats and a "look". I really don't think there is that much difference between a 5DMkII with TS-E lenses and my 4x5 camera. That is not the reason I use the 4x5 ... its not about IQ its about the image look.

essentially I think that Olympus was on the button with the 4/3 format in the first place ... as perhaps was Pentax with the 110 ... its just the now the film flatness issues and enlargement have been solved with digital sensors.

So I agree that over time the market will tend towards larger sensors and fully mirror less cameras for the main stream.

As I seldom need a camera that does AF like a Canon 1D HS or take advantage of the image size aspects of my larger formats, I can't imagine that the vast majority of buyers do either.

 

[pellicle]

Re: 4/3 will displace DSLR for "leisure" shooters wanting high image quality

Hi

for anyone who finds this thread, the following information may be of significance

From this link:

Heft. The Panasonic Lumix G1 at 1.4 pounds (638g) is actually a little lighter than the Olympus E-420 (640g), each with their kit lenses

in my backpack its weight which makes the difference, not bulk. Not that there is much difference in bulk between these two cameras.

Where the G1 does shine over the E-420 is a better sensor and much better live view integration in the (electronic) viewfinder.

I own a G1 but have a soft spot for the older E-4xx series cameras.