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New Sony, all I can say is, "WOW!"

Terry

Terry

New member
I really don't want to have to lock down Or delete posts in the thread. Godfrey and Vivek, please contunue the argument through PMs and then you can post resolution.
 
jonoslack

jonoslack

Active member
Brian Mosley said:
:D I'm not too surprised Jono, but do you still have your A900? won't your Sony dealer loan you one? :cool:

Actually, don't bother - I've just looked at the samples on dpreview and the IQ is mediocre at best. :rolleyes:

Cheers

Brian
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HI Brian
I do still have the A900 - and still love it, a file from the A900 with Zeiss glass is a thing of wonder and beauty. I'm also sure that I could borrow a NEX for a bit - but really, if the IQ was better than the EP2 (and that's a BIG if) then I still wouldn't want one for the practical reasons above.
 
douglasf13

douglasf13

New member
jonoslack said:
HI Brian
I do still have the A900 - and still love it, a file from the A900 with Zeiss glass is a thing of wonder and beauty. I'm also sure that I could borrow a NEX for a bit - but really, if the IQ was better than the EP2 (and that's a BIG if) then I still wouldn't want one for the practical reasons above.
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Hi, Jono! As you know, I've been struggling over my intense desire for an M9 with a standard prime to compliment my A900, but, having started a new business this year, I just can't justify spending that kind of money anytime soon.

Well, it looks like Sony unintentionally created a near-perfect camera (for me) to slightly appease my Leica lust. If (and this is a BIG IF) the 35mm M lenses work well on the NEX at the edges, this camera will be an outstanding grab-and-go type camera. Below is a mock-up of the NEX-5 with a 35 summilux, courtesy of "thrice" on the fredmiranda forums (If you're on a 24" 1920x1200 monitor, this is life size):



Now, I wanted to address some of the concerns about this camera, and how they relate to me and my uses.

-IQ: There is no doubt that this sensor will perform better than m4/3. It is more or less the same sensor as the A550, but with video. I'm not the biggest proponent of DxO Mark or anything, but to give some an idea as to what we're talking about, the A550 ranks a lot closer to the M9 than the EP2:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/(appareil1)/346|0/(appareil2)/333|0/(appareil3)/339|0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Leica/(brand2)/Sony/(brand3)/Olympus

-Lenses: I'm not terribly impressed with what I've seen so far, and these mediocre lenses are what are giving people an overall bad impression of the IQ of this camera. The sensor is better than that. Zeiss is rumored to be working on lenses, according to a Sony employee, but I plan on going the M route until then.

-Lack of buttons: I have mixed feelings about this. I actually like the spartan design of the camera, and I don't think I'll be too hurt by the lack of buttons. I plan on shooting either A or M mode, and the aperture adjustment will be on the lens itself, so things should be fine. Granted, I hope Sony is listening to reviewers about software changes. I'm particularly concerned about changing ISO. The camera does have easy access to a manual focus zoom-in option, which is a relief for me.

-Screen/EVF: I certainly hope that Sony brings an EVF at some point. However, I'm really excited to use this swivel screen, because the mechanics of it allow it to mimic a waistlevel finder. I've heard this screen does well in the sun, and holding the camera chest high and firing, like with my Hassies, sounds like a lot of fun. Also, I may try out the OVF. We'll see.

All in all, I'm excited about this little $600 camera, and I'm getting one as soon as adapters come out. Granted, the above is no statement on how the camera will work for the general public. I have specific, weird preferences that just so happen to gel nicely with the NEX...I think. :shocked::)


p.s. I may just use a ZM 35mm lens, to keep cost down.
 
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barjohn

barjohn

New member
I went ahead and ordered one from the SOny site (pre-ordered). I figure what the heck. I can always return it or sell it. I like the 24mm field of view with a full size APS-C sensor as I find that I use that focal length in interiors all of the time with the Ricoh GXR but I hate the S10 IQ. Having the ability to go even wider or shooting panoramas is even better. I figure FotoDiox or some other adapter seller will offer an M mount and that may expand the options. Additionally, it costs about what I expect Ricoh will charge for the 28mm module when it becomes available and it may not have this sensor.
 
C

charlesphoto

New member
Was initially excited until I saw image samples and menu interface.

So I give up. Just ordered GF-1 with 20mm. X1 far too expensive and I seriously question the ability to use M lens on the NEX (at least on the wide side). Don't forget a big part of the M8/9 cost is the fancy microlenses on the sensor and software correction going on. NEX won't have this.

Anyway the more I look at the NEX it seems it's positioned to the Ashton Kucher crowd that want to take a step up. Nothing wrong with that just not for me.
 
douglasf13

douglasf13

New member
charlesphoto said:
Was initially excited until I saw image samples and menu interface.

So I give up. Just ordered GF-1 with 20mm. X1 far too expensive and I seriously question the ability to use M lens on the NEX (at least on the wide side). Don't forget a big part of the M8/9 cost is the fancy microlenses on the sensor and software correction going on. NEX won't have this.

Anyway the more I look at the NEX it seems it's positioned to the Ashton Kucher crowd that want to take a step up. Nothing wrong with that just not for me.
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Agreed about the microlens issue. I only really need a 50mm equivalent for a camera like this, so I'm HOPING that NEX does ok with 35mm M lenses. I don't need anything wider.
 
jonoslack

jonoslack

Active member
douglasf13 said:
-IQ: There is no doubt that this sensor will perform better than m4/3. It is more or less the same sensor as the A550, but with video. I'm not the biggest proponent of DxO Mark or anything, but to give some an idea as to what we're talking about, the A550 ranks a lot closer to the M9 than the EP2:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database/Compare-cameras/(appareil1)/346|0/(appareil2)/333|0/(appareil3)/339|0/(onglet)/0/(brand)/Leica/(brand2)/Sony/(brand3)/Olympus
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Hi Douglas
I think Dx0 might be a bit misleading in this case - I'm sure that the Sony files will be fine with a good lens - but they simply wont compare in good light with an 18mp CCD with no AA filter.
I'd also feel that after the experience of m4/3 with M lenses - a 35 on APSc is about the same as 25mm on m4/3, and the angle of incidence simply means that the edges aren't good enough - I just don't believe that a 35 'lux will perform on the NEx at the edges . . . . could be wrong of course :)

all the best
 
douglasf13

douglasf13

New member
Jono, I agree that the A550 is no M9, and DxO should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm simply saying that NEX certainly falls between the M9 and m4/3, as far as quality is concerned. Sensor size is important.

I'm reading/learning more and more about angles of incidence and using adapted lenses. You may be correct, generally, about 35mm being a problem, but there are some x-factors involved. The distance of the exit pupil to the sensor is as important as the focal length itself. ie. some 35mm lenses will be better than others. In fact, the Contax G2 35mm and 45mm lenses would perform very similarly on NEX in the corners, due to their design. I'm thinking that a Summarit 35 may be a good choice, because it has a rather long exit pupil to sensor length. There also seems to be a big difference between 28mm and 35mm lenses in regards to this.

Also, I've read that the sensor toppings on m4/3 are particularly thick, causing issues, and who knows what that situation on the NEX will be like? The only practical examples we have is with the Epson RD-1, which does fine with 35mm lenses, but that's only 6mp. Once adapters are available, I may just buy the darn thing and rent a bunch of lenses to try out. If none of them work, I could still use the NEX for fun movies and family snapshots.

The NEX has the potential to be my ideal, cheap small cam, but we'll see. BTW, today's my birthday, Jono, so if you wanna send me an M9, I'll gladly accept! :ROTFL::ROTFL:

33 years and counting!
 
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V

Vivek

Guest
douglasf13 said:
The distance of the exit pupil to the sensor is as important as the focal length itself. ie. some 35mm lenses will be better than others.


Also, I've read that the sensor toppings on m4/3 are particularly thick, causing issues, and who knows what that situation on the NEX will be like? The only practical examples we have is with the Epson RD-1, but that's only 6mp.
Click to expand...

Good points, Douglas.

I do not recall many complaints about the 35/1.4 on R-D1s

The "sensor toppings" in m4/3rds (and/or 4/3rds) are exceptionally thicker than any others I have seen (RD1s, many Nikon DSLRs, I have not got to the NX-10 yet). As result of this (one aspect), the bokeh is usually creamy (~4.5mm of various glass on the sensor). R-D1s' "toppings" on its sensor, is much less (~2.75mm).
 
douglasf13

douglasf13

New member
I would expect the NEX to be in the same ballpark as Nikon's "sensor toppings" thickness, but I'll guess we'll have to wait and see. Oh man, I'm hoping a few 35mm lenses work. I may try that cheapie Voigtlander 35 1.4. It seems to have good distance from pupil to sensor, and, outside of barrel distortion, it's a decent performer. If I have issues with the 35mm lenses, I could probably deal with a 40mm Nokton or Summicron-C, etc.

Interestingly, I just read that Sony is calling the 16mm NEX lens a "portrait" lens. I guess that's how they legitimize the soft corners. lol.
 
RichA

RichA

New member
woodmancy said:
I think this Sony Camera has the personality of a "concrete block"

Photographers want personality, as defined by looks, weight, size, and of course, performance.

Keith
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Are you looking for a camera, or a fashion accessory? Are you using it to shoot pictures, or impress people when you shoot? One of the most prolific discoverers of comets in the late 20th century did it with a telescope cobbled together out of a old brass Petzval lens, twine and a mounting made out of 2x4"s. Fact is, it could be a brick, literally, and it would still run rings around the micro 4/3rds gear when it comes to image quality, as does every decent camera with an APS sized sensor today.
 
jonoslack

jonoslack

Active member
douglasf13 said:
Hey, thanks Jono! I'll ask my wife if swapping out 12 years is acceptable. :thumbs::LOL:
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Just to clarify. That would mean we were both the same age as our new prime minister and we'd both have 1 m9. Maybe your wife has always hankered after the older man? I'm sure mine would be quite happy with a toy boy :ROTFL:
 
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