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As a m4/3 shooter, do you also find a need for...

DHart

New member
a camera like a ZS7, LX5, or XZ-1?

I'm well set-up with a Canon 5DMkII system (used for work) and a well-rounded m4/3 system as well (GH2, GF1 and nine lenses, or so.)

I have a ZS3 that I bought for those times when I just wanted a really small, lightweight, capable little camera for casual snapshots and movies. It has worked very, very well in that capacity and I am glad I have had it. It performs amazingly well in good light, the optical zoom range is mind boggling, movies are wonderful, but isn't well suited to low light situations and the model is getting a little "long-in-the-tooth".

I have a bit of "new camera itch" and have been thinking of upgrading my ZS3. Possibilities are:

1) the just announced ZS10 (24-384mm equiv. Leica lens, still no RAW, dang it)
2) the LX5 (24-90mm f/2-3.3, good sized sensor, RAW)
3) the Olympus XZ-1 (28-112mm, f/1.8-2.5, good size sensor, RAW)
4) the Sony S95 (28-105mm, f/2-4.9 decent IQ, RAW)
5) the rumored new f/1.8 Nikon model... whatever

Any of these models would provide a smaller, lighter, versatile alternative to my GF1, with a slight loss in IQ, and the LX5 or XZ-1 also fill a void in the m4/3 lens realm of a fast, wide-range zoom. In this regard, the XZ-1 looks especially appealing! I prefer to shoot RAW only and favor maximizing IQ, so the great little ZS10 is probably not so much in the running for me.

My preference leans toward the XZ-1 or the LX5 at this point. In RAW, it seems the XZ-1 has the edge in IQ and it has an edge in speed of the lens as well. But the LX5 has the edge in a somewhat wider wide end and the familiarity (to me) of Panasonic's way of doing things.

But I wonder if I might be almost as inclined to just put up with my larger, bulkier GF1/14-45 combo instead? The 14-45 is a fantastic general lens, just a bit slow. So I'm wondering if the XZ-1 or LX5 might be pushing up close enough to the GF1/14-45 realm to be almost redundant... perhaps not, though, as the form factor of the XZ-1 and LX5 is definitely a bit leaner and easier to carry and low light capability may get a slight nod with the faster lens. (Faster lens on LX5 vs. slightly better higher ISO performance on GF1 may be a wash?)

What are your thoughts?
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
The XZ-1 looks very, very tempting. I consider that an alternative to the GF2. When you consider the lenses needed for a comparable range, it's certainly more pocketable.
 

biglouis

Well-known member
Why not just buy a GF-2? Smaller form factor but same sensor size and your lenses will fit it.

LouisB
 

DHart

New member
Why not just buy a GF-2? Smaller form factor but same sensor size and your lenses will fit it.

LouisB
Hey Louis... not a bad idea, but there isn't a m4/3 lens that can compete with the XZ-1 or LX5 for combined speed/range/small size. And even if there were, the form factor and convenience factor of the XZ-1 and LX5 still beats the GF-2. Not by a HUGE margin, but enough to make a difference. The GF-2 is a tad smaller than my GF-1, but not by much, really. It wouldn't make nearly enough difference vs. my GF-1 to be worth it.

The idea is to have a camera that's enough more convenient and versatile than a m4/3 body and lens to be worth having, in addition to m4/3, without sacrificing much in IQ. I think the XZ-1 and LX5 do that.

BTW... LOVE your images! :salute:
 

Terry

New member
I have the S95 and G12....for probably the same reason.
I also have the original Oly 14-42 kit lens. I'm thinking that lens on the GF2 might replace the two P&S cameras.

If I were choosing today, I would probably go for the Oly XZ1. I must say after using m4/3 and other big sensor cameras the Canons feel more sluggish to focus etc. Also after using GF1 the controls on the S95 (and LX5 which I sold) seem so small and fiddly.
 

DHart

New member
Terry... I take it you didn't see enough merit in the LX5 vs. the S95, G12 kits? That doesn't speak terribly well for the LX5. :confused:

I can understand the merits of the G12. I have a G9 that I haven't used in about a year and a half. Wonderful camera... landmark in it's day. I handled it tonight as I consider selling it and couldn't help but marvel at it, still. Well done, Canon! :thumbup: I don't really want to let it go.

But with the other gear I've got now, I know I won't use my G9 anymore. :rolleyes: I can imagine that the G12 is all of the G9 and a lot more. But probably still, not a competitor for a m4/3 system. And probably not a competitor for XZ-1 either.

But you clearly prefer the S95 and G12 to the LX5?
 

Terry

New member
My issue with the LX5 a couple of things -

1)it almost feels too small after using the GF1 where the button layout is more spacious
2)the buttons on the back controller aren't labeled but are just indents which I hadn't memorized and were getting harder to see as my aging eyes get closer to needing reading glasses



There is nothing wrong with the LX5 - I just didn't bond with it. The screen on the S95 is nicer than LX5, the fold out screen for G12 is most useful. But most of all, I'm looking forward to the touch screen and touch focus of the GF2.
 

DHart

New member
the fold out screen for G12 is most useful. But most of all, I'm looking forward to the touch screen and touch focus of the GF2.
Terry... I love articulating screens... and the touch screen, touch focus, touch... features are very handy and useful as well. These are elements that I love about the GH2. Amazing camera. I'm sure you'll appreciate the touch features on the GF2. Too bad they didn't make that screen articulating, dang it. That makes a really big difference when relying on an LCD.
 

wjlapier

Member
I have the ZS7 and don't really see any need for another P+S. Image quality is fine for daylight shooting. Video is excellent to me.

However, I was going through some pics from my vacation to Montana and notice a huge difference between two pics. I thought maybe I had changed some settings in the ZS7, but after looking at EXIF data, the "better" pic was from the GF1 and 20/1.7!
 

deckitout

New member
My LX3 sits unused, it really is a struggle in bright lights with my not so good eyes, I prefer the slightly bigger EPL1 and if I need to I will carry a lens in another pocket

I haven't a link, but the LX5 scored a fair bit higher that the XZ-1 at DXO, considering they are the same sensor it's a bit strange
 

JMaher

New member
Size matters

I am currently struggling with "camera acquisition syndrome" as well but I am thinking of a K5 or a GF-2. I know these don't fit your current criteria but I have owned a LX3, a few M4/3 cameras and currently own a S90. My go-to camera is Canon 5D2.

The S90 is a great camera for what it is but it and all the other small cameras suffer from the very small sensor they use. From my perspective if it's not your main camera (and maybe not even your 2nd system) then small is the overwhelming factor. You can slip a S95 in your jeans pocket or just about anywhere else. In every other choice that was discussed the best they fit without a bag is a winter coat. If we get to that size (that a bag is necessary) then why not go for something like the GF-2 or the K5. As always my my opinion is just that an opinion.

Jim
 

photoSmart42

New member
There's always room for a pocketable high-end compact. I use my wife's S95 on occasion when she's using my GH1, and it's perfect. Anything larger than that size and I might as well carry the real deal.
 

JMaher

New member
A few S90 photos taken in the past few months - maybe a little (a lot) over processed but I liked the colors.

Jim
 

simonclivehughes

Active member
Don,

I use a ZS3 too, but also a Sony TX7. I like the TX7 for most things (especially with its outstanding Handheld Twilight and Sweep Panorama modes), but the ZS3's zoom wins out for situations where I need the reach. Neither camera produces RAW files, but jpegs that can be worked with to produce very usable results. But, like others here, I find the difference in size between these and say the GF1/E-PL1/20mm or even NEX5/16mm (or either with a CV lens) is so minimal, that often I grab the larger sensor cams instead.

Ciao,
 

DHart

New member
Re: Size matters

Good comments, everyone, thank you.

Jim, your comments summed it all up especially well...
...if it's not your main camera (and maybe not even your 2nd system) then small is the overwhelming factor. You can slip a S95 in your jeans pocket or just about anywhere else. In every other choice that was discussed the best they fit without a bag is a winter coat. If we get to that size (that a bag is necessary) then why not go for something like the GF-2 or the K5.

Jim
Comparing size and weight (lenses in 35mm equiv.)

GF1...................w/40mm/1.7...........4.6 x 2.8 x 1.63.......455 g
GF2...................w/40mm/1.7...........4.4 x 2.7 x 1.53.......381 g
XZ-1....w/28-112mm f/1.8-2.5...........4.4 x 2.6 x 1.7.........275 g
LX5.......w/24-90mm f/2.0-3.3...........4.1 x 2.2 x .1.7.........233 g
S95........w/28-105mm f/2-4.9...........4.0 x 2.3 x 1.2.........193 g
ZS10.........w/24-384 f/3.3-5.9...........4.13 x 2.3 x 1.3.........219 g

GF2 option
It's pretty clear that Panasonic did bring the GF2 virtually into the realm of the high end pocket cameras... except for weight and lens specifications. There is no lens for the m4/3 that compares for speed and compact size to the lenses on the LX5 or XZ-1. So....

LX5 & XZ-1 options
Comparing the XZ-1 to the LX5, the LX5 is a bit smaller and lighter, and offers much better movie capability. And I prefer the LX5's slightly wider (24mm) zoom range. Whereas the XZ-1 offers a slight edge in lens speed, DOF control, and possibly in IQ, but the margin is very slim, perhaps negligible. Both offer EVF options which I highly value.

S95 & ZS10 options
If size and weight is most important, these win. And the S95 wins for IQ and lens speed. Neither have an available EVF. ZS10 wins for movie capability and zoom range by a huge margin.

Some considerations
The small, fast lenses for GF1/GF2 are the 20/1.7 and 14/2.5 (not so fast). No doubt these lenses are gems, but with fixed focal lengths less versatile and the package is still a tad large and weighty for an always go everywhere camera. The other options are more compact and lighter weight and offer much more versatility in image making with their fast zoom lenses.

Given my interest in movies as well as stills, valuing slightly wider FOV vs slightly longer, and valuing the ability to use an EVF if desired, I'm leaning somewhat toward the LX5 at this point. Though the XZ-1 could easily sway me that direction as well. And, of course, having an S95 or a ZS10 would be very nice for the slip-in-the-pocket factor. Would it be terribly excessive to have an LX5 or XZ-1 AND an S95??? ;)

This is an itch that I think I'm going to need to scratch. I will put my G9 and ZX3 on eBay. When they're gone, I think I will just have to go shopping.

Decisions, decisions... and of course none of them are the perfect decision. Good arguments can be made for choosing every option listed! As with all things in life, every choice you can make involves compromises of one sort or another. Jury's still out for me... and I'm still interested in other's thoughts on this.
 

DHart

New member
Shutter noise.... anyone know if this is fairly quiet with the LX5, XZ-1, S95 or if they can be made quieter? Is shutter noise/sound something that can even be controlled in any way? My technical ignorance to shutters in these new digital cameras leaves me wondering if the sound is a genuine mechanical sound or something that's electronically simulated to aid the shooter?

EDITED TO ADD - I understand now that the shutters in these cameras are mechanical - hence the noise that is not controllable.

And, if you don't mind me continuing my thinking process aloud...

Other factors weighing in favor of the LX5 (for me) include the multi-aspect sensor feature, better orientation for panoramics, uses the same EVF that I already have for my GF1, YES!, superb options for movie making.
 
Last edited:

m3photo

New member
Re: Shutter Noise

Shutter noise.... anyone know if this is fairly quiet with the LX5, XZ-1, S95 or if they can be made quieter? Is shutter noise/sound something that can even be controlled in any way? My technical ignorance to shutters in these new digital cameras leaves me wondering if the sound is a genuine mechanical sound or something that's electronically simulated to aid the shooter?


EDITED TO ADD - I understand now that the shutters in these cameras are mechanical - hence the noise that is not controllable.
With regard to the S95 at least ('cos I've got an S90):

A) Correct

B) Incorrect
 
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