The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Micro 4/3 (which one?) or NEX?

AGeoJO

New member
I am newbie if its coming down to either of these relative new breeds of camera/system. Well, the old age is showing and I am considering getting a smallish camera that I can use in combination with my Leica M9 system to travel light. I like the idea of being able to use my Leica M lenses on it and at the same time being able to use AF using its respective lens. And the idea of bringing either one as a back up camera with possibly using AF on the long end is appealing to me. First, the basic question micro 4/3 or Sony NEX; what will be my best bet? If the first, which system does the typical user prefers; Panasonic or Olympus? While the first question seems to be fairly straight forward, I understand that the second question may bring up a ton debates. Can anyone enlighten me, please?

Thanks,
Joshua
 

Amin

Active member
Do you like to shoot with an eye level viewfinder?

Do you intend to use zooms or primes? What focal lengths do you want to cover with the new system?

Will you be shooting RAW or JPEG?

How important is image stabilization to you with wide-normal lenses?

----------------

Those are some of the questions I'd ask for a start. However, in the end, I'm going to recommend that you buy a Panasonic GH2 :ROTFL:.
 

AGeoJO

New member
Hi Amin,
Thanks for your input. Eye level is my preference. My Leica lenses are all primes :) but I can handle a zoom or two. I never shot JPG.... What is that LOL? Stabilization on the long end is important and anything else is gravy. GH2, huh?
 

Amin

Active member
If eye level is your preference, then Sony NEX is not there yet (without workarounds), and Olympus bodies need an add-on EVF, which to me is awkward but others feel differently.

The Panasonic GH2 has the best sensor of all 4/3 and Micro 4/3 cameras and best autofocus of all Micro 4/3 cameras. If you shoot RAW and use Lightroom, there is virtually no difference in sensor image quality between most of the Micro 4/3 cameras (other than auto-metering choices by the cameras and minor differences in AA filter quality/strength). The Panasonic bodies won't give you stabilization with the wide/normal lenses, but stabilization will be built into the long lenses.

Putting it altogether, I'd highly recommend the Panasonic GH2. If you want a kit of AF primes, the Panasonic 14/2.5, 20/1.7, and 45/2.8 are all great. The zooms are all either great (7-14, 14-45) or good (everything else).
 

AGeoJO

New member
Thanks, Amin. I will look into that GH2 then. You don't seem to be enthusiastic about the other, longer zoom or zooms from Panasonic, huh? I will go over on-line reviews in the next several days. Any other input from other members, please :D?
 

Amin

Active member
I haven't used the 100-300 zoom, but I have owned the 45-200 (which I consider to be a good lens for its class) and still own the 14-140mm lens (which I also consider to be a good lens for its class). I've also used the Olympus 14-150, liked it, and reviewed it here.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I am newbie if its coming down to either of these relative new breeds of camera/system. Well, the old age is showing and I am considering getting a smallish camera that I can use in combination with my Leica M9 system to travel light. I like the idea of being able to use my Leica M lenses on it and at the same time being able to use AF using its respective lens. And the idea of bringing either one as a back up camera with possibly using AF on the long end is appealing to me.

First, the basic question micro 4/3 or Sony NEX; what will be my best bet? If the first, which system does the typical user prefers; Panasonic or Olympus? While the first question seems to be fairly straight forward, I understand that the second question may bring up a ton debates. Can anyone enlighten me, please?
I have no interest in the Sony system as I see Micro-FourThirds and its compatibility with my FourThirds SLR lens system as a big advantage. Much as Sony has some nice lenses too, I won't get back into buying two completely different yet so similar systems like that.

The Panasonic G1 was a fine camera ... used one from 2008 until a short time after I bought the Olympus E-5 and was quite pleased with its capabilities. Now looking at Micro-FourThirds again, I'd pick the Olympus E-PL2 with VF2 as a better "compact companion" to the E-5 (or Leica M9) from the current offerings. It's much smaller than the Panasonic G1/GH1/G2/GH2 bodies and provides similar capabilities with the addition of in-body image stabilization, useful with adapted manual lenses. The E-PL2 improves on the handling ergonomics of the E-P1/E-P2/E-PL1 quite a bit, IMO, which was my original complaint about the E-P1 (and a similar complaint for the Panasonic GF1 too).

All of the mFT cameras, Panasonic to Olympus, have been pretty darn good performers. Their lens versatility is very useful. I like the options available with the more compact E-PL2 body and its removable VF-2 viewfinder, particularly if the primary goal is compactness.
 

AGeoJO

New member
Godfrey, thanks for your input.

I realize the difference in sensor size between the two systems and do you and/or other members that use micro 4/3 systems feel the shortcoming of the smaller sensor size relative the the NEX, which uses an APS-C sensor? Or the size difference doesn't matter if it is coming down to real life shots?
 

RonSmith

Member
I very recently added a GH2 to my m4/3 arsenal, which includes the G1 and GF1. I too got started with m4/3 specifically for a reasonably priced digital platform on which I could use my collection of Leica M lenses, although now I have several Panasonic lenses, and they're wonderful.

For manual use of legacy lenses, including Leicas of course, the GH2 is the very best of the breed so far. The EVF is better, the manual focus assist is quicker and the resolution is better.

I join Amin in highly recommending the GH2.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Godfrey, thanks for your input.

I realize the difference in sensor size between the two systems and do you and/or other members that use micro 4/3 systems feel the shortcoming of the smaller sensor size relative the the NEX, which uses an APS-C sensor? Or the size difference doesn't matter if it is coming down to real life shots?
NEX has a 16x24mm sensor. Micro-FourThirds sensor proportions are different, so its 13x17.3mm size translates to 16x21.7mm on the NEX sensor. In essence, it really doesn't come down to be that much smaller.

What's key when looking at noise characteristics are photosite sizing and sensor technology. The photosite sizing is very close because the pixel densities are about the same. The latest Sony sensors prove to be a little cleaner at ultra-high ISO than the latest Panasonic sensors due to differences in the technology outside of that.

However, the difference is marginal at best in practical use.
 

simonclivehughes

Active member
Joshua,

Maybe I can give you my impressions as I currently have both m43 (GH1, GF1 E-PL1) and NEX 5 systems. As others have mentioned, the kit lenses for both systems are quite good, and M glass can be fitted to both systems too for a manual focus experience.

I find that I use the M lenses with the NEX bodies more than the m43, and I see better IQ from the NEX sensor (especially at higher ISOs). The downside is no EVF for the NEX, although I use the JTec cold shoes and use my optical VFs for zone focussing. Should an EVF become available for the NEX, it would be my ideal camera.

The m43 gear I tend to use more with the AF lenses (the 2X crop doesn't always work well with the RF lenses), and for the longer reach you get. All that said, however, I certainly have used the M lenses on the m43 and they work well, especially with the IBIS of the E-PL1.

I originally had a pair of M8s and sold them as the focussing was no longer as accurate as I wanted, but the focussing with either the NEX or m43 cams is quite a bit better, especially with an EVF.

Here's a recent shot with the Nokton 50mm f1.1 (@f1.1) on the E-PL1.

View attachment 42395


Hope this helps,
 
Last edited:

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I had the NEX5 and the EP2 and finally sold the NEX as I did almost not use it - could not get friends with it, although the results were pretty good. But I like the rendering and colors of the Olympus much more. Also I have the EVF for the EP2 and this is a real great thing!

I added also the GH2 in Jan this year and this is no doubt the 43 (m43) camera with the best sensor available currently. It is a bit bulky compared to the EP2 or EPL2 but it delivers. Listening to your requirements I would also suggest you take the EPL2 with EVF - built in IS, small enough and great quality.

If you would prefer highest IQ then the E5 would top all of the m43 stuff, but for the price of being much bigger and heavier :)

My choice would be anytime 43 or m43 above NEX!

My 5c
 

AGeoJO

New member
Ron and Simon, thank you for your input. Godfrey, thank you for the explanation in sensor size difference.

Amin and Ron, how does the AF assist work on manual focus lenses such as those Leica-M lenses? Is there an LED light indicator and/or audio beep? I assume the AF uses a phase contrast system then...

Simon, the NEX doesn't have any EVF then? But it is mirrorless; how do you focus then?

I am sure that you can tell from my questions that I have not been exposed to this at all. Except for the Leica RF system, I have used a Canon DSLR and tons of lenses. It is just lately, I felt like scaling down the weight/bulk of gear I take on trips I do quite a bit since I am retired now. Until recently, I took both systems on trips and I my age is showing more and more lately....

Thanks,
Joshua
 

RonSmith

Member
Amin and Ron, how does the AF assist work on manual focus lenses such as those Leica-M lenses? Is there an LED light indicator and/or audio beep? I assume the AF uses a phase contrast system then...

Joshua, it's not AF assist, as there is no AF nor focus confirmation available. Rather, by pressing on the rear control wheel with a legacy lens mounted, the image in the viewfinder or on the LCD is enlarged, making it much easier to focus. The resolution of the GH2's EVF is superior to that of previous models.


Also, though I dearly love the GF1, the necessity of pressing the button on the side of the EVF to switch the view to or from the LCD becomes tiresome. The GH2 (and the G1 for that matter) can automatically switch when you place or remove your eye from the viewfinder.
 

simonclivehughes

Active member
Simon, the NEX doesn't have any EVF then? But it is mirrorless; how do you focus then?
You focus by using the LCD screen. On the NEX, I most often use it with the screen tilted upward, holding the camera like a TLR. As you approach focus, the LCD exhibits some aliasing which indicates sharpness. For really fine focus, use the bottom function button to magnify the image on the LCD. It's worth pointing out again that the LCD, when set to the Sunny Weather setting is the best I've seen yet for use in bright conditions.

Cheers,
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
.. how does the AF assist work on manual focus lenses such as those Leica-M lenses? Is there an LED light indicator and/or audio beep? I assume the AF uses a phase contrast system then...
On all the Micro-FourThirds cameras, the autofocus system is based on a Contrast-Detect algorithm, not a Phase-Detect algorithm. Phase Detect algorithms are what AF SLRs use, utilizing a separate set of focusing system sensors from the main sensor (or film).

However, when using adapted manual focus lenses on mirrorless cameras, the AF system is completely un-involved with focusing. With adapted lenses, focus is done on the LCD or EVF screens as if they are a ground glass using either the normal viewing resolution or Manual Focus Assist, which enlarges the portion of the image you select to make critical focusing easier.
 

AGeoJO

New member
Thank you again for your input, guys. Sorry, I stepped out for a little while and couldn't respond right away. OK, I have a better understanding on how the focusing aspect works now.

ptomsu, thank you for your insight into the E5. However, at this point, if it is coming down to the pure image quality, I will have to rely on the M9 with ASPH lenses and I would like to use a smallish system that I can use my existing Leica with. That body and a good zoom lens should be sufficient for me to rely on just in case the M9 gives up while travelling and to use longer lenses, longer than 100-120mm (equivalent for 35mm format) with IS or OS that can autofocus, of course. I don't want to add another system into the mix. Well, to a certain degree, I do with either the micro 4/3 or NEX but again, mostly used for backup and/or tele purposes.

Thanks again,
Joshua
 

kwalsh

New member
Keep in mind aspect ratio with your choice. Sounds like you are coming from an M9 with a 3:2 aspect ratio. If you really want to shoot that aspect ratio and wouldn't care for the 4:3 aspect ratio you may want to consider that the GH1 and GH2 have multi-aspect sensors that will allow you to shoot 3:2 while still maintaining the m43 sensor diagonal. The other m43 cameras will just do a crop of the 4:3 field of view if you set them to 3:2. The NEX is already a 3:2 aspect sensor.

The first page of the DPR GH2 review has a good description and figure showing the multi-aspect sensor concept:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicDMCGH2/

Of course, if you aren't particularly married to the 3:2 aspect ratio it doesn't really matter. I happen to prefer a more square aspect ratio anyway so I usually shoot in the 4:3 aspect because I most frequently crop to 5:4 anyway.

Ken
 
Top