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Thread: OMG!

  1. #51
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    Re: OMG!

    Who bet that?!

  2. #52
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    Re: OMG!

    Finally, it appears that all that marketing B.S. is withering down-

    43 Rumors | Blog | (FT5) E-M5 has worlds fastest AF of all interchangeable lens cameras (says Olympus)

    GX-1' s sensor with a better processor.

    Time to look for the GH-3 announcement!

  3. #53
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Finally, it appears that all that marketing B.S. is withering down-

    43 Rumors | Blog | (FT5) E-M5 has worlds fastest AF of all interchangeable lens cameras (says Olympus)

    GX-1' s sensor with a better processor.

    Time to look for the GH-3 announcement!
    Agreed... GX1 sensor sucks compared to the GH1. Would have been nice to have moved the technology forward as opposed to backward. I'll still wait for samples - the IBIS, form factor, and weather sealing may prompt me to buy one anyway as a G1 replacement.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  4. #54
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    Re: OMG!

    not so sure, GX1 and GH2 seem quite close at 1600ISO

  5. #55
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    not so sure, GX1 and GH2 seem quite close at 1600ISO
    Well, OK, but the GH2 sensor isn't as good as the GH1. I don't care much about high ISO or high MPx count, but I do about IQ and DR.
    -Dragos
    Panasonic GH1/G1, Canon FTb(n)/F-1, Mamiya C330F/RB67 Pro SD, Chamonix 45N-2, Nikon F5 + Assorted Lenses

  6. #56
    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    I recall banding was an issue on GH1, but again high ISO
    there was this interview with Panasonic hosted at Imaging resource where they talked about the differences in GH2 and G3/GX1 sensors. Will try to find it later ..

  7. #57
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by photoSmart42 View Post
    Well, OK, but the GH2 sensor isn't as good as the GH1. I don't care much about high ISO or high MPx count, but I do about IQ and DR.
    Really? You are the first person I've ever heard claim that. Do you own both cameras? Everyone that I know that has had both says exactly the opposite. I suppose you could have gotten the rare GH1 that didn't suffer from horrible banding and a GH2 that was somehow defective and reach that conclusion - but I haven't seen anyone else come to that...

    Ken

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    Re: OMG!

    That is odd indeed.

    Good news regarding two possible new lenses from Olympus- a 75/1.8 and 60/2.8 Macro!

    It is starting to look like a very strong system.

    If only they will bring out some versatile, proper sized flashes..

  9. #59
    Senior Member Riley's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    ok heres the interview
    Panasonic interview: Learning from the fringe, taking small steps - Imaging Resource

    and the key part
    DP: Obviously, we’ve cast our lot with Micro Four Thirds. We still think you can obtain the same optimum image from a Micro Four Thirds that you will from an APS-C. Why do we say that? Well, in terms of everything above APS-C and full frame; the level of development, the R&D that goes into those sensors has been very limited, whereas in the point and shoot sector, the very tiny sensors, massive amount of R&D has gone into those to improve those because they have low light issues. So now, we as a company are focusing more and more and more on what can we do to Micro Four Thirds to take it to the next generational level. So I think you’ll see from us, in time, a greater emphasis on taking Micro Four Thirds and sort of leap frogging or even going further ahead with the technology. You see this in the difference between the GH2 and the G3, for example, or even the GX1. The GH2 has a full digital Micro Four Thirds 16 megapixel sensor, whereas the GX and the G3 have analog 16 megapixel Micro Four Thirds sensors. The numbers are the same, but the technology is vastly different. Now, what the digital version gets you is far better video--far better, faster readout rates--but it’s a lot more expensive. So between the two cameras you get a better video read on a GH2 than you will with a G3, for example. But at the same time, for still pictures, they’re pretty close because we have been able to take the image processors in the G3 and the GX and take them up a significant level, having learned what we did with the GH2 when we built it. We took them and even created a better image processor, technically, than is in the GH2. Now, we can apply this technology to the GH2 sensor in the future, and you can imagine what we can do. I think we will reach that level very soon.

  10. #60
    Allan Ostling
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by kwalsh View Post
    Really? You are the first person I've ever heard claim that.
    For what it's worth, DxO gives the GH1 a DxOMark of 64. The GH2 has a score of 60. So by this measure the sensor of the GH1 is better than the sensor of the GH2.

    I own neither camera, so cannot comment on how this translates to the real world.

  11. #61
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Ostling View Post
    For what it's worth, DxO gives the GH1 a DxOMark of 64. The GH2 has a score of 60. So by this measure the sensor of the GH1 is better than the sensor of the GH2.

    I own neither camera, so cannot comment on how this translates to the real world.
    The key here is the "For what it is worth" part. It is worth nothing as far as photography is concerned.

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by kwalsh View Post
    Really? You are the first person I've ever heard claim that
    I know many u43 users who say exactly the same. The later sensors past G1 and GH2 - the worse. Super duper high ISO better - means less noise at differently calibrated ISO, requiring longer shutter speeds. Better charts results on portals, all since NEX appeared. Panasonic started to compete with Sony on high ISO field, Mpix and size of cameras.

    Higher ISO - at the cost of IQ and DR. No, thank you. Even ISO 100 stopped to be available in all bodies...

    That is reason, most of my friends who are interested in pictures, not charts - still use G1 or GH1 and laugh from people changing bodies every generation.
    Best Regards!

  13. #63
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    Re: OMG!

    I own G1s and GH-2s. No GH-1 (did not want to buy one and have no regrets).

    The G1s are sparingly used. Only the GH-2 gets most of the action. It is better in every way. IQ, DR (related to noise, btw)- much better.

    And, no banding!

  14. #64
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    Re: OMG!

    I own two GH2s. I previously owned a G1 and a GH-1. I agree entirely with Vivek. The GH2 is better in every way than the GH1 and G1s. IQ and DR related to noise is much better. My GH1 banded when the shadows were pushed much at all in post-processing. The GH2 doesn't band. The noise on the GH2 is much less than the GH1 at higher isos (even at iso 320). I don't think the DXO relating ratings make sense based on my experience.

    I regularly use the GH2 at iso 2500 without hesitation. I did my best not to use the GH1 at any more than about iso 800 because of the noise/banding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I own G1s and GH-2s. No GH-1 (did not want to buy one and have no regrets).

    The G1s are sparingly used. Only the GH-2 gets most of the action. It is better in every way. IQ, DR (related to noise, btw)- much better.

    And, no banding!

  15. #65
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    Re: OMG!

    I've shot with the G1, G2, GH1, and GH2.

    I have been surprised by the improved dynamic range of the GH2. I didn't expect that. The G1 and the G2 provided similar IQ obviously. The GH1 surprised me with its banding (grumble), but I got it on the way cheap as a stand in, so I shouldn't grumble too much.

    I have no idea how the G3 sensor compares to the GH2 sensor in terms of DR and IQ.

    If the OMG has the G3 sensor in it, with the other features that are leaking out, it merits a look for me. The reasons to add it into the mix with my GH2 would be image stabilization, weather sealing, and shooting experience. If the ergonomics/setup/functionality makes the shooting experience more enjoyable, woo hoo . It apparently has a tilt screen and a viewfinder which are also on my list.

    Doug

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    Re: OMG!

    GH2 has no banding, instead has regular lines in video on higher ISO, discussed on video forums.
    My friend got official statement from Panasonic, that it is like it is and that they will not remove it and that every model has it.

    Many people say here that GH2 has better IQ than predecessors. Probably it means for them less noise on higher ISOs, maybe JPGs and call it IQ.
    I am mostly interested in best IQ, DR, details - on lowest ISO and only look at RAWs.
    Samples I saw from GH2 - did not convince me.

    Anyway,
    it does not matter, if you are happy with it - that is most important!

    See you in photo thread!
    Best Regards!

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry_R View Post
    GH2 has no banding, instead has regular lines in video on higher ISO, discussed on video forums.
    My friend got official statement from Panasonic, that it is like it is and that they will not remove it and that every model has it.

    Many people say here that GH2 has better IQ than predecessors. Probably it means for them less noise on higher ISOs, maybe JPGs and call it IQ.
    I am mostly interested in best IQ, DR, details - on lowest ISO and only look at RAWs.
    Samples I saw from GH2 - did not convince me.

    Anyway,
    it does not matter, if you are happy with it - that is most important!

    See you in photo thread!
    Many people here shoot RAW and evaluate based on that (myself included).

    On the IQ front, I am also most interested in low ISO shooting although I wouldn't mind better performance at higher ISOs as well (Nikon D700 performance wouldn't be to much to ask for, would it? ).

    On the DR front, all I can comment is based on my experiences with the GH2 over the G2 and GH1. Shots that were typical requiring exposure bracketing on those cameras ended up not needing it on the GH2. Enough so that I was surprised by it (I have shot bracketed multiple times and have found out I didn't need it after the fact).

    IQ is of course subjective, and as you stated, different people have different goals.

    Doug

  18. #68
    Member kwalsh's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry_R View Post
    Many people say here that GH2 has better IQ than predecessors. Probably it means for them less noise on higher ISOs, maybe JPGs and call it IQ.
    I am mostly interested in best IQ, DR, details - on lowest ISO and only look at RAWs.
    I've shot the GH2 and G1 extensively, always at base ISO and only RAW. The GH2 is definitely superior in IQ in every way. Better shadows, better resolution, easier to handle mid-tone noise. The difference isn't huge, but it is there, and anyone who thinks the G1 is doing better at base ISO really hasn't used both cameras.

    I've not shot the GH1, but I have compared some provided RAW samples and you just can't push the shadows. Banding, blah.

    Now, if someone has a GH1 that doesn't band (and apparently there is some variability) then I could understand that they don't see a big improvement in the GH2. The GH1 was quite good except for the banding.

    Ken

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by greypilgrim View Post
    Shots that were typical requiring exposure bracketing on those cameras ended up not needing it on the GH2. Enough so that I was surprised by it (I have shot bracketed multiple times and have found out I didn't need it after the fact).
    Are you sure you had the same light conditions?

    GF1: 6.1 EV
    E-P1: 6 EV
    G2: 6 EV
    GH2: 5.3 EV
    G3: 5.3 EV

    GF1: Google Translate
    E-P1: Google Translate
    G2: Google Translate
    GH2: Google Translate
    G3: Google Translate

    * Red dots show best quality


    The same trend of running for Mpix or high ISO by among others increasing base ISO - with GH2, GF3 - observes DP Review
    Panasonic DMC-GH2 Review: 12. Dynamic Range: Digital Photography Review

    Suspicious, isn't it?
    Best Regards!

  20. #70
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    Re: OMG!

    I had a G1, GH1, and GH2. The GH2 was basically the same image quality as the GH1 to me except that the GH1 had occasional banding in the shadows and the GH2 did not.

    I haven't seen a single person who has actually owned a GH1, then bought a GH2 and been disappointed with the GH2 image quality. I've seen many GH1 owners who got the GH2 and were very pleased with it. That certainly was my reaction.

  21. #71
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry_R View Post
    Are you sure you had the same light conditions?

    GF1: 6.1 EV
    E-P1: 6 EV
    G2: 6 EV
    GH2: 5.3 EV
    G3: 5.3 EV
    So now were fishing in Polish sites with results not reproduced by a single other test site? And contradicting the results from anyone who owns both cameras, or anyone who has processed the available RAW files from IR and DPR?

    The same trend of running for Mpix or high ISO by among others increasing base ISO - with GH2, GF3 - observes DP Review
    Panasonic DMC-GH2 Review: 12. Dynamic Range: Digital Photography Review
    And now were looking at a JPEG DR comparison?!?!?! I thought you were all about RAW?

    Suspicious, isn't it?
    Something sure is...

    I'll not waste time with you anymore, thanks!

    Ken

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry_R View Post
    Are you sure you had the same light conditions?
    Yes, hence the surprise as I was not looking for a DR improvement at all.

  23. #73
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    Re: OMG!

    Instead of discussing the difference in DR between one camera that has been discontinued and one that will be discontinued very soon, why not discuss this:

    We don't get wiser as we get older. It's a myth.
    Things I sell: http://www.shutterstock.com/cat.mhtml?gallery_id=61105

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    Re: OMG!

    Interesting poetry from Olympus.

    I try hard to be an observer while taking photos instead of being a participant or being a part of it as Olympus claim that the new camera would make you.

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    Re: OMG!

    What is really great is the fact that some of the camera manufacturers have started to make beautiful cameras again. The OM-D seems to be exactly what I've been hoping for.
    We don't get wiser as we get older. It's a myth.
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    Re: OMG!

    If it is WS, I will be a buyer.

  27. #77
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    Re: OMG!

    It is looking nice!

    G3 sensor, EVF, IBIS, tilting LCD is really going to be a low-light prime shooters delight.

    Ken

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Interesting poetry from Olympus.

    I try hard to be an observer while taking photos instead of being a participant or being a part of it as Olympus claim that the new camera would make you.
    +1

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Instead of discussing the difference in DR between one camera that has been discontinued and one that will be discontinued very soon, why not discuss this:

    Because we're all hoping they'll pull a surprise new sensor on us!



    Doug

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    Re: OMG!

    Complete with the handgrip and all- pics:

    http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-first-fu...s-of-the-e-m5/

    I look forward to using one very soon!

  31. #81
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Instead of discussing the difference in DR between one camera that has been discontinued and one that will be discontinued very soon, why not discuss this:
    HI Jorgen
    It looks gorgeous doesn't it - excellent!
    . . . and at only 2/3 of the price I'd have one of these over a fuji x1 every day.
    Last edited by jonoslack; 4th February 2012 at 07:57.

    Just this guy you know

  32. #82
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    Re: OMG!

    Wonderfull - I will buy it just from seeing this image Anyboy wants my Nex?

  33. #83
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    Re: OMG!

    At last, what looks like a really well thought out m43rds camera. Dare I say it, a 'professional' one. I like the positioning of the switches and dials and particularly the grip. My only concern is the IQ. That is going to be crucial because (dare I say it) the GH-2 while being at the pinnacle is still capable of letting you down. I could lament that I only wish they had instead chosen (say) a 10.1MB sensor as opposed to the reported 16MB and then concentrated on really low noise at all iso. However, we'll have to wait and see.

    LouisB

  34. #84
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    Re: OMG!

    I'm sure the image quality will be better than from my GH1, or from my D300 for that matter
    We don't get wiser as we get older. It's a myth.
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  35. #85
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    Re: OMG!



    Want!

    Not bad in black either:


  36. #86
    Allan Ostling
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post

    Want!
    Not bad in black either:
    A great find! As far as I can tell you have scooped all the other rumor sites with these clear photos of the OM-D.

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Instead of discussing the difference in DR between one camera that has been discontinued and one that will be discontinued very soon, why not discuss this:
    Just to go to the OMD, which if it uses the same sensor as the GX1, doesn't have as much DR as the GH2.

    - Raist

  38. #88
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Just to go to the OMD, which if it uses the same sensor as the GX1, doesn't have as much DR as the GH2.

    - Raist
    Does this REALLY matter if the camera is as cool? Are you buying DR or are you buying a cool camera?

    Peter

  39. #89
    Senior Member kweide's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    So Oly establishes a new camera line above the PENs which is named OM-D ( igital ) and its first cam is the E-M5. Its name suggests that the new one is on the same level as E-5 but in mFT format ?? That may be the reason for the E-m5 Name ??? Lets wait some days...and its performance with the FT lenses ...

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  40. #90
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by kweide View Post
    So Oly establishes a new camera line above the PENs which is named OM-D ( igital ) and its first cam is the E-M5. Its name suggests that the new one is on the same level as E-5 but in mFT format ?? That may be the reason for the E-m5 Name ??? Lets wait some days...and its performance with the FT lenses ...

    Klaus
    While I do hope this happens (on par WRT IQ with E5) there is now the need for

    1) a full new pro or semi pro mFT lens lineup equaling the SHG glass
    2) I cannot see this OMD body, although it looks very nice and I really like this look, being only close to the ergonomics of the E5. Say alone the grip is far to small to be held as good as the E5, do not want to go into more details, which would be EASY.

  41. #91
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Ostling View Post
    A great find! As far as I can tell you have scooped all the other rumor sites with these clear photos of the OM-D.
    Photoshopped images. See: 43 Rumors | Blog | Photoshopped silver E-M5 and more user created images.

    I do not think Olympus would have come up with the OMD attached to the 17/2.8 while exclaiming, OMG!

  42. #92
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Photoshopped images. See: 43 Rumors | Blog | Photoshopped silver E-M5 and more user created images.

    I do not think Olympus would have come up with the OMD attached to the 17/2.8 while exclaiming, OMG!
    Actually agree!

  43. #93
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Just to go to the OMD, which if it uses the same sensor as the GX1, doesn't have as much DR as the GH2.

    - Raist
    You're probably right, but I wouldn't rule out some clever processing to extend the DR... multi scan HDR?

    Cheers

    Brian
    Founder, Olympus Photo Safari Group

  44. #94
    Senior Member kweide's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    You're probably right, but I wouldn't rule out some clever processing to extend the DR... multi scan HDR?

    Cheers

    Brian
    ... way too complicated. One for the highlights and one for the darks. Simple stacking....
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  45. #95
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    Re: OMG!

    New picture: http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-new-image-and-more-specs/

    Shows the camera plus all the accessories like the Macro LED, stereo mic, the wifi thingy and such that can be attached. There appears to be a tiny flash (no pop up in EM-5) and the new 600 flash (not wireless! damn!), the new lenses (75/1.8 and the 60/2.8 macro).

    Now that looks like a system! Add the Pana lenses and it would look good!

  46. #96
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: OMG!

    starts slowly looking like a system .....

    waiting for the IQ of that beast

  47. #97
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Does this REALLY matter if the camera is as cool? Are you buying DR or are you buying a cool camera?

    Peter
    Well does DR matter for photographic quality? Does it matter (at least to some people) to not spend cash after cash for every new camera model that comes out if it's not going to improve the image quality significantly?

    To some people that matters. I realize since you seem to buy everything with "new" on it that doesn't seem to be a consideration for you but for some of us it is. To me part of a camera being "cool" is that it is a good photographic tool. If I was going to go EM-5, coming from a K-5 (particular example of me, just peaking for myself), the set of features has to be attractive for me to jump back.

    This shouldn't read that I don't think it's a bad camera- the price if true is very fair even with a GX1 sensor. But again, why keep upgrading if what I already have is really good? I see a few reasons to go EM5 but I want to make sure the whole package is a compelling reason for me to do so. And for many, it's the same deal- otherwise it's all cash spend every 6-12 months on a new model that really doesn't improve much at all, and the photography skills don't move forward.

    Personally I think it's fine at the price with the GX1 sensor. But I think it's good to know if that improved or not because it's been a #1 issue with Olympus m4/3rds (and 4/3rds).

    - Raist

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    You're probably right, but I wouldn't rule out some clever processing to extend the DR... multi scan HDR?

    Cheers

    Brian
    Well Olympus does have that quick multi-shot DR patent… but has never shown up so far. That patent is about now… ummm 3-4 years since it was found?

    If they have the regular HDR of some other cameras (for example Pentax Q, Pentax K-5), that is nice, but it's not a "fast shooting" type HDR - the shots are shots bracketed quickly as if you shot them yourself but that's not fast enough for general HDR acquisition.

    The Olympus patent works the same idea but fast enough to get shots in the 1/30-1/500th type range if I remember correctly. So far hasn't shown up. Unless they *trumpet it* on day one, I would say it's not showing up.

    - Raist

  49. #99
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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Well does DR matter for photographic quality? Does it matter (at least to some people) to not spend cash after cash for every new camera model that comes out if it's not going to improve the image quality significantly?

    To some people that matters. I realize since you seem to buy everything with "new" on it that doesn't seem to be a consideration for you but for some of us it is.

    Personally I think it's fine at the price with the GX1 sensor. But I think it's good to know if that improved or not because it's been a #1 issue with Olympus m4/3rds (and 4/3rds).

    - Raist
    Raist,

    sure I do care for DR and I am actually very happy with the DR my D7000 gives to me as opposed to the E5. But WRT what camera I like (liked) more overall, it still is the E5.

    Sure I hope the DR of the OMD is best of all m43 available today

    Peter

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    Re: OMG!

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Raist,

    sure I do care for DR and I am actually very happy with the DR my D7000 gives to me as opposed to the E5. But WRT what camera I like (liked) more overall, it still is the E5.
    And yet you sold it right? And you have a D7000 :-)


    Sure I hope the DR of the OMD is best of all m43 available today

    Peter
    Yeah, I just want to know what moved forward.

    - Raist

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