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Looking for high ISO performance

Braeside

New member
Gary, It would be great if the Fuji had IBIS. They are bringing out a zoom with OIS, though F2.8-4. Of course if your subject is moving IBIS won't help as much as higher ISO. I need to do more tests, but I don't see such a huge difference in noise between the Fuji and the OMD. The detail in the Fuji is slightly less due to the poor raw conversions available. I see more actual detail from the 12M GXR than the 16M Fuji on landscapes with a 35mm lens.

Anyway, sorry, we are getting way off subject again.
 

RichA

New member
Have been using digital Leica M since the M8

Interested in what others are finding or accepting as a trade off in smaller form cameras .
The M8 was a flawed joke of a camera. No IR filtration and a noisy sensor. No wonder it sells for $0.20/dollar of what it originally cost. Only the lenses hold their value. When Nikon releases a relatively compact, mirrorless FF, that'll be the end of Leica except for those holding a lot of legacy lenses.
 

TimWright

Member
If your used to the M8 M9 then the Fuji Xpro 1 is the way to go. I shot with both of these and unlike the poster above found them both excellent. I have both the Fuji and OMD and while both are good at high iso the Fuji is really excellent up to 3200 and very good at 6400.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Thanks for all the input . I will work on some examples from the D800E/D4 but they are beyond my expectations for a small form camera .

One follow up point that comes up all the time . You don t have to print big to see the loss in DR and color saturation . In some situations you will not be able to tell the difference because the scene does not include a broad DR or a need for color depth ...but in others its important to the IQ . Noise degrades the ability to resolve fine detail and in some photographs thats critical ..in others does t matter . Expectations vary considerably by individual and the intended output . So one photographers great at 3200 might not make the cut ....nothing wrong with that just makes it hard to share experiences .
 

jonoslack

Active member
Have been using digital Leica M since the M8 came out . Really enjoy street shooting with M sized equipment . The limiting factor has always been ..higher ISO performance . I shoot color otherwise I would get a MONO and be done with it .

HI Roger
Clearly the M9 isn't the high ISO demon we would all like . . . but then the sensor and tech are basically the same as that of the M8 from 2006 - so it's hardly surprising.

On the other hand, we all know that a new M has been suggested for Photokina, and it'd be pretty surprising if good high ISO wasn't pretty high on their agenda.

I actually think the OMD does a grand job - but it's clearly not going to be as good at high ISO as a full frame camera.

I don't know any more than you, but it seems very likely that your perfect camera is just around the corner.
 

Terry

New member
Roger
Imaging Resource is a good place for you to look. When they do camera reviews they always make prints. Then they go ISO by ISO and say what size print would be their limit and how good it is. That info is very useful. Scroll all the way down the page:

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Camera - Review







.
 
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glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Jono

I sure hope so as I am all set if I can get an M thats 1 1/2 EV better than the M9 :deadhorse:

I expect you might know before I do .. :LOL:




HI Roger
Clearly the M9 isn't the high ISO demon we would all like . . . but then the sensor and tech are basically the same as that of the M8 from 2006 - so it's hardly surprising.

On the other hand, we all know that a new M has been suggested for Photokina, and it'd be pretty surprising if good high ISO wasn't pretty high on their agenda.

I actually think the OMD does a grand job - but it's clearly not going to be as good at high ISO as a full frame camera.

I don't know any more than you, but it seems very likely that your perfect camera is just around the corner.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Thanks Terry ...generally I try to read all the tests but the OMD skipped by me (must have been buried in the debate over the Nikon D800) . Then I saw a nice post about street shooting with the OMD over on Steve Huff s site and I became interested .





Roger
Imaging Resource is a good place for you to look. When they do cera reviews they always make prints. Then they go ISO by ISO and say what size print would be their limit and how good it is. That info is very useful. Scroll all the way down the page:

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Camera - Review







.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Camera - Review


This test is a must read and superb educational source . The explanation of high ISO performance is exactly what I have been looking for . The examples show that the performance depends on whether your scene can accept the gradual loss of IQ . The colors in the wheel turn to mush at 1600 yet the labels still hold fine detail so its easy to see why looking at different photographs we might draw different conclusions . :thumbup::thumbup:
 

quadtones

Member
Much, much easier for me, I suspect than Roger, as my needs are for B&W, and even the M9 is usable for my purposes to 1250, with careful exposure. The form factor is really important to me, though. While I once carried 2 Pentax 6x7 bodies and three lenses as a "kit" when I traveled, my intervertebral discs will no longer tolerate the burden. M-size, Fuji or Nikon D800 ISO would be terrific. Oh, yes, and looking at an aerial image, rather than a ground glass or LCD--of course at m43 prices...
 

quadtones

Member
Thanks, Roger, for the link. Quite a revelation, after using the Ms for so long. It would be interesting to see how my 75 Summicron looks on the Olympus.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Roger
Imaging Resource is a good place for you to look. When they do camera reviews they always make prints. Then they go ISO by ISO and say what size print would be their limit and how good it is. That info is very useful. Scroll all the way down the page:

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Camera - Review







.
Terry you should have the credit for this link . Imaging resource tests are exactly what I have been looking for . This tester has forgotten more than I ever hope to understand .

I would encourage anyone that has the time to first ..dig in on the cameras you own . I went thru the M9 and while I could quibble about some details he has it essentially correct . You have to go deep in test but there is a section on available light considerations . In the section on ISO he hits all the points and tells you where to look in the test images . There are many subtle observations that you might never see until you have 000 s of images . He even speaks to the desire to shoot for 9-12 months to learn the camera .

The only issue I have with his tests of the M9 is that he may not have achieved optimum focus ..testing with a flat subject is subject to material loss of IQ due to small missed focus . This often isn t relevant for the type of photography done with an M . So I skip the resolution question and look primarily at the color,tone separation etc . I do my best to use the M at base ISO until I can t and avoid going over 400 .

It is easy to see why photographers are impressed by the OMD and Fuji XPro1 both seem to have a step up in IQ from other APS C or smaller sensors. However..if you can handle the weight and size look at the Nikon s even the D7000 which is a reasonable size DSLR.
 

Braeside

New member
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Camera - Review


This test is a must read and superb educational source . The explanation of high ISO performance is exactly what I have been looking for . The examples show that the performance depends on whether your scene can accept the gradual loss of IQ . The colors in the wheel turn to mush at 1600 yet the labels still hold fine detail so its easy to see why looking at different photographs we might draw different conclusions . :thumbup::thumbup:
My earlier thoughts that the X-Pro 1 is about 1 stop better than the OM-D appear to be confirmed by those tests. :thumb up:

It also appears to confirm that the FF Sony A900 is worse than either at high ISO. Just shows how sensor technology has improved over the last few years.

The M10 should be rather nice.
 

Tesselator

New member
Coming from the DMC-GH1 I had originally thought that the OMD E-M5 was super-awesome. However after recently acquiring the DMC-GH2 I'm not so sure it's that much different. Maybe a little but I doubt it's actually noticeable. The OMD is still the better camera for stills with it's weather-proofing, awesome in-body stabilization, fast continuous drive, and that nifty optional portrait battery grip. Here's a test I did today of the DMC-GH2's ISO. These are all from the RAW images brought in through ACR's default settings - which is basically just color noise removal. This is the 50% version and you click on the image to get the 100% version.





The Fuji X-Pro 1 is much better at high ISO settings but it achieves this in some very strange ways. The results remind me of some kind of cellular posterization process. It looks awesome scaled but at 100% it looks like someone ran the Photoshop Oil Paint plugin on it. I'm not saying that's a bad thing - it is what it is... I'm just pointing out what I see.

EDIT: Also I wouldn't say it was one stop better. It's about 8 or 10 stops better. But at the same time I dunno if "better" is the right word. It's not like any other sensor noise I've ever seen. Maybe I should say it's 10 stops different. :D
 
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V

Vivek

Guest
I have been searching for that 10 stop better camera for a while now. :p
 

Tesselator

New member
Well, if you don't mind in-camera JPegs the Fuji is it.

Hey, you don't think I'm exaggerating do you? :D

If I am it's not by much! ;)
 
V

Vivek

Guest
You are not far off. Without active cooling, just propaganda alone adds a few stops.

With all said and done, nothing comes close to the experience of some system cameras. :D
 
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