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Thread: M4/3 to Leica

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    Smile M4/3 to Leica

    Finally, the crude M4/3 to Leica adapter is ready (sort of).

    Here is a self portrait using the swivel TFT screen to focus (on the lens' nameplate). Lens was wide open.



    The C-V 15/4.5 (even wide open) is nothing but astounding on the G1 ( I stand corrected from my earlier post in another thread).

    Here is a shot from my Canon 50/0.95 @ 0.95 (ISO1000, 1/320s handheld, focused on the lens' rim, a single bare bulb was the light source).



    It is late now. The adapter still needs to be cleaned and a camera lock hole to be added.

    [To anyone contemplating making their own adapter- avoid this particular one. It is very very difficult. Just buy one when it is available. It really is worth buying- i am going to get a commercial one]

    Can't even go out as it has been haling and freezing winds. Perhaps tomorrow, I will take some shots and add them here.

    Oh, the monster next to the C-V15 is my Tegea 9.8mm f/1.8 lens. Awesome lens.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    How difficult is it to focus on these stopped down lenses??

    Do u focus wide open, and then stop down (my recollection of that techniques)??

    Using aperture priority, 1) how difficult is it to keep the subject visible in the EVF as u stop down, 2) is the readout of the shutter speed the index that u use to stop reducing the aperture ring on the lens, 3) how easy is it to use this technique on moving objects??

    My questions are probably very basic, but I have not used stopped down metering in a very long time. (Kilfitt 300 mm macro on a Topcon R).

    Thanks.


    Martin

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
    How difficult is it to focus on these stopped down lenses??
    Easy. Very easy. By far the most accurate focusing that I have experienced (this includes, RF, small format SLRs, MF RF, MF SLRs and LF). I understand this is a very bold statement. But, that is what I find.

    Do u focus wide open, and then stop down (my recollection of that techniques)??
    Yes. Both these shots were focused (and taken) at the widest aperture setting. It is nearly impossible to focus accurately with the Canon 50/0.95 on an SLR (only close focus distances, of course), for example, as this lens wide open, is a very low contrast lens. With the G1, you can choose a spot in the frame, magnify it to ~200%, focus and shoot. No need to focus/reframe as in a range finder or even in an SLR.

    When you do stop down after focusing, the meter takes a second or so to adjust. So, it isn't fast by any means. (this answers, in part, the questions you have below)

    Using aperture priority, 1) how difficult is it to keep the subject visible in the EVF as u stop down, 2) is the readout of the shutter speed the index that u use to stop reducing the aperture ring on the lens, 3) how easy is it to use this technique on moving objects??
    With EVF, it isn't difficult to keep the subject visible after stopping down. The screen brightness is adjusted automatically. It looks grainy and starts to flicker (imagine very old TVs "running" and one has to adjust the vertical and horizontal knobs to stabilize the picture) but is still visible.

    My questions are probably very basic, but I have not used stopped down metering in a very long time. (Kilfitt 300 mm macro on a Topcon R).
    Your questions (focus and metering) are the most important factors ( at least to me they are) as far as a camera is concerned. If you had the misfortune ()of using a Topcon R, you would find the G1 and its EVIL system a joy to use.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    When you do stop down after focusing, the meter takes a second or so to adjust. So, it isn't fast by any means. (this answers, in part, the questions you have below)
    HI Vivek
    Brian was rather implying that in decent light you didn't need to do the two stages - i.e. you could focus with the lens already stopped down as the EVF adjusted for the light.

    Is this correct?

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Hi Jono, I would answer, yes, may be, depends on the user, the lens and the light.

    I just checked the 15mm CV lens at f/16 at 20 cm to 1 meter (focused on a bright lamp as there is virtaul darkness here now because of heavy skies and snow) and could not focus. Everything seems to be in focus!

    With a 50-55mm lens there is difference. With an ancient 135mm Hektor there is discernable difference and so on..

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Hi Jono, I would answer, yes, may be, depends on the user, the lens and the light.

    I just checked the 15mm CV lens at f/16 at 20 cm to 1 meter (focused on a bright lamp as there is virtaul darkness here now because of heavy skies and snow) and could not focus. Everything seems to be in focus!

    With a 50-55mm lens there is difference. With an ancient 135mm Hektor there is discernable difference and so on..
    Hmm - with a 15mm CV at f16 on a 4:3 sensor everything IS in focus!

    I was thinking really of using something like a 50mm zeiss sonnar at f2.8 in decent light (which is an attractive proposition for portrait work.)

    Anyway, I've bought it now, so if I don't like it I'll just have to lump it

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    The crop factor and the angle of coverage of a lens are not that big of a factor compared to the magnifications and the lens used, IME.

    Here is an old shot through the Tegea 9.8 f/1.8 at f/22 at its closest focusing distance (~5cm, shooting against the Sun as well), Epson R-D1s.



    This one was taken with a CV 15/4.5 at f/11 (extension ring, focus was at ~4cm), Epson R-D1s.



    This one, again with the CV 15/4.5 at f/16, Bessa-L, Kodak print film 200 ASA, ~4.5cm.


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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Vivek

    Thanks for quick response. This camera platform can be very interesting due to the ability to use older, existing lenses (Leica M, Hexanon, Zeiss M, ?Contax Y, not G). Your answers are most reassuring.

    I have already asked Steve Gandy to order one of the M adapters for me.

    I may have to make an investment in one of the new Zeiss 18mm lenses???

    Thanks again.

    Martin

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Vivek, Your pioneering work is very much appreciated. I just can't wait for the m adapter to arrive.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Why didnt anyone get so excited about the E420,I dont see what all the fuss is about.Is the digital range any better than on the olympus cameras?Am not trying to be negative here just interested at what is ,at the moment,a buzz in the corner of the room.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Hi Neil,

    I think it may be because there's at last a popular ELVIS cam which will support Leica M lenses... that together with the articulating LCD in such a small camera is getting people excited.

    The E-420 was a 2nd (or 3rd if you're in the UK) generation smallest DSLR... so the excitement was a bit more muted.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Thanks Brian for the explanation.I think if the leica m lenses had a choice they wouldnt be seen dead on such a camera,auto everything ,swivelling lcd ,whtever next.Think Im going for a gin and tonic and a bit of a lie-down.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    LOL, I'm keen to see the first shots with Leica lenses on the G1... hopefully Jono will be amongst the first

    Kind Regards

    Brian

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Thanks Brian for the explanation.I think if the leica m lenses had a choice they wouldnt be seen dead on such a camera,auto everything ,swivelling lcd ,whtever next.Think Im going for a gin and tonic and a bit of a lie-down.
    What?

    The articulating TFT monitor and the EVIL system themselves are worth the cash. There is no UV or IR response like the M8/8.2 or the Epson R-D1/s. So filters (any kind) are not needed.

    BTW, earlier you were asking something about how digital conflicts with pre-visualization of a B&W capture (I did suggest a Wratten filter used by the likes of A.Adams). The live view focusing in G1 would allow you to "see" in B&W.

    How about that?

    Hey Cindy, Thanks.
    Last edited by Vivek; 23rd November 2008 at 12:52.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Thanks Brian for the explanation.I think if the leica m lenses had a choice they wouldnt be seen dead on such a camera,auto everything ,swivelling lcd ,whtever next.Think Im going for a gin and tonic and a bit of a lie-down.
    Yeah, it's all gone downhill since we abandoned the wet collodion process.

    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Glass plates and a Wratten 90 filter is the answer.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Why didnt anyone get so excited about the E420,I dont see what all the fuss is about.Is the digital range any better than on the olympus cameras?Am not trying to be negative here just interested at what is ,at the moment,a buzz in the corner of the room.
    Neil,
    I am excited because I will be able to put my M Leica Summilux 50 f/1.4 and have the equivalent of a 100mm f/1.4 in a small package. My Summarex 85 f/1.5 will be an equivalent of 170mm f/1.5. My little Voigtlander 12mm will be a 24! The ELVIS has made this possible.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Neil,
    I am excited because I will be able to put my M Leica Summilux 50 f/1.4 and have the equivalent of a 100mm f/1.4 in a small package. My Summarex 85 f/1.5 will be an equivalent of 170mm f/1.5. My little Voigtlander 12mm will be a 24! The ELVIS has made this possible.
    Like you Cindy, I'm shaking with excitement (and unfortunately this little camera doesn't have image stabilisation). Still, watch your summarex carefully; one day, you'll look in your camera cupboard, and there will be a little note "jono has stolen your summarex"

    I missed a nearly mint one on ebay the other day for €550 . . . . I was watching it, and they sent me a reminder at 14.26 . . . which would have been good if the auction hadn't ended at 14.25!

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Thanks Brian for the explanation.I think if the leica m lenses had a choice they wouldnt be seen dead on such a camera,auto everything ,swivelling lcd ,whtever next.Think Im going for a gin and tonic and a bit of a lie-down.

    It can be manual everything too . . . if that's what you would like.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Like you Cindy, I'm shaking with excitement (and unfortunately this little camera doesn't have image stabilisation). Still, watch your summarex carefully; one day, you'll look in your camera cupboard, and there will be a little note "jono has stolen your summarex"

    I missed a nearly mint one on ebay the other day for €550 . . . . I was watching it, and they sent me a reminder at 14.26 . . . which would have been good if the auction hadn't ended at 14.25!

    Just remember i do take leftovers.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Like you Cindy, I'm shaking with excitement (and unfortunately this little camera doesn't have image stabilisation). Still, watch your summarex carefully; one day, you'll look in your camera cupboard, and there will be a little note "jono has stolen your summarex"
    ...
    Fat chance!

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Now this wet colloidon thing sounds pretty nifty............does it come with a hair shirt?

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Just remember i do take leftovers.
    I'll have to do a before and after inventory when I let you play with my G1.
    I ordered the 4/3 adapter but I did paypal which means it is headed to NY and I don't think I can have it in AZ for the weekend.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Like you Cindy, I'm shaking with excitement
    Jono, I guess you could say that ELVIS has got us all shook up!

    Now that you've ordered your G1, I'm sure Olympus will announce their image stabilised m4/3rds body round about now

    Brian

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Jono, I guess you could say that ELVIS has got us all shook up!
    Deary me . . . and at this time of the morning too!


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Now that you've ordered your G1, I'm sure Olympus will announce their image stabilised m4/3rds body round about now

    Brian
    I'm losing my touch Brian. I bought the A900 back at the end of September, and Nikon still haven't announced their high res body.

    You may be right, but I was actually hoping that the Olympus body with a small prime would be my prize for not having bought the LX3. So, when I crack and get that or a d-lux 4, THAT'S when you should expect the Olympus announcement!

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I'll have to do a before and after inventory when I let you play with my G1.
    I ordered the 4/3 adapter but I did paypal which means it is headed to NY and I don't think I can have it in AZ for the weekend.
    Yes better mark all your gear. LOL

    Tell Gandy to send the adapter here
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Actually Terry i have the M8.2 here for you to see on loan from Leica.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Yes better mark all your gear. LOL

    Tell Gandy to send the adapter here
    Gandy is doing the micro M mount to M4/3 but that isn't around yet.
    The one I just ordered was the 4/3 to M4/3 mount made by Panasonic.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    The camera body side of the adapter still does not lock tightly. Here is a shot using the Canon 50/0.95. ISO100, 1/640s, the lens was stopped down to f/1.4.



    There CA (background, blown windows). But that has to do with the harsh background light and my not yet refined adapter.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    OK, these are more in line with the lens I know. All shot wide open (50/0.95)







    I am only sticking to this lens now (well, it is more fun than anything else) to get used to using it.

    BTW, none of the subjects were aware that I was photographing them.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Vivek,
    You are killing us!!!! You are making our wait hard.
    Excellent.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    OK, these are more in line with the lens I know. All shot wide open (50/0.95)
    I am only sticking to this lens now (well, it is more fun than anything else) to get used to using it.

    BTW, none of the subjects were aware that I was photographing them.
    Nice work Vivek. How did you manage to keep the walkers in focus at f/0.95? Did you use the EVF or LCD?

    Carl

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Hi Cindy, There were specific purposes for which I bought this cam. This (to use the 50/0.95) is one of them. You will get your adapter soon. Thanks.

    Carl, Thanks. I used the LCD (TFT isn't it?) screen for all the three (or 4 shots).
    The first one was probably more difficult as that woman was sitting opposite to me in a Bus (~1.2meters). Using the liveview for focusing is like using a TLR (waist level, no "hipshots" anymore! ) only, here the image shows up properly! If I continue to use this combo for a few more days, it will get better.
    Basically you develop a feel for it.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Vivek,
    You are killing us!!!! You are making our wait hard.
    Excellent.
    Count yourself lucky . . . I haven't even got the camera yet! (hopefully tomorrow). Have you ordered an M adaptor . . . and if so, where from?

    Vivek - great stuff - I'm looking forwards to trying it with a 75 'cron.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Let me add these for a good measure..


    Canon 50/0.95 @ 0.95, closest focus (1m)



    Same as above plus a Canon 500D on the lens (something that can not be done easily with a rangefinder camera).

    Jono, The 75 Summicron should be good. Something similar to this:
    (http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/file.../_1000291s.jpg).

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Let me these for a good measure..


    Canon 50/0.95 @ 0.95, closest focus (1m)



    Same as above plus a Canon 500D on the lens (something that can not be done easily with a rangefinder camera).

    Jono, The 75 Summicron should be good. Something similar to this:
    (http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/file.../_1000291s.jpg).
    Hi Vivek
    What's blaue kristalle? and should you be taking pictures of it . . . and is it a worthy stand for the wonderful CV15 heliar?

    I also have big hopes for it with the lovely zeiss sonnar f1.5.

    I just emailed Stephen Gandy about the adaptor, and he sent an answer back in about 3 minutes . . . Late Dec, early January. I hope he does well with them.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    CuSO4
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Hi Jono, Look again. Perhaps the blue crystals (Kid's stuff. Early introduction to Chemistry. ) dazzled you. No, it is a proper M lens. no CV heliar.

    At least this time I included something else other than a lens in the frame!

    Yeah, only one source and Gandy is the supplier.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    There you go. Bertie to the rescue.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Hi Jono, Look again. Perhaps the blue crystals (Kid's stuff. Early introduction to Chemistry. ) dazzled you. No, it is a proper M lens. no CV heliar.
    Red Dot . . . slack's a pratt (not thinking again).
    Which lens is it? Seems to be F2 . . . . Now you're going to tell me it's a lens I already have!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    At least this time I included something else other than a lens in the frame!

    Yeah, only one source and Gandy is the supplier.
    We all wait with baited breathe then!

    And Bertie - thanks for chipping in, what's it for? putting on your vines?

    Just this guy you know

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Didn't you get to play with bluestone crystals at school? And yes, doesn't it do something against some sort of vine rot? Or was it potato rot?

    BTW, what's a Canon 500D -- close-up lens attachment?
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Didn't you get to play with bluestone crystals at school?
    Yes - Copper Sulphate, but they weren't called 'bluestone crystals' in my day!


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    And yes, doesn't it do something against some sort of vine rot? Or was it potato rot?
    Phylloxera - killed off half the french wine industry in the 19th century.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bordeaux_mixture


    Bordeaux mixture (copper sulphate and hydrated lime) was used for that (and for other fungus infections like Phytophthera infestans (the potato blight).

    Sometimes you can find lovely blue deposits on brick walls where it was mixed/poured/spilt.

    Incidentally, I would like to state at this point that I managed to pluck the species 'Phytophthera infestans' straight out of the raddled remains of my brain, without recourse to any google based aid.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    BTW, what's a Canon 500D -- close-up lens attachment?
    Yes - that's the one!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Jono, your erudition is quite amazing ; and to think I imagined that the closest you got to Bordeaux - whether mixed or not - was drinking it.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Your mention of copper sulphate in Bordeaux mixture, and its use against potato blight reminds me that I visisted Strokestown House earlier in the year. It's the home of the National Famine Museum.
    http://www.strokestownpark.ie/museum.html
    One of the exhibits says that the use copper sulphate -- I think alone -- was suggested in the early phases of the Irish Potato Famine in the mid 1840s. The idea was turned down. The population of Ireland is still less today than in 1841.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    This one was shot under FL light in a post office. 50/0.95, again at 0.95.
    Focused on the rim of the glasses of the man.


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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Couple more.. ('Cron40/2). Extremely light weight and low profile set-up.

    f/2.8



    f/2


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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Vivek, Very impressive images. Are you still street shooting with the waist level approach?

    Regards,
    Carl

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Carl, That is the way to use this camera (at least for me) and I am very delighted that I can do waist level shooting.

    Since I opened the thread with a picture of the CV15 lens, here is a shot (I still have to get used to this lens with this crop) though it. f/4.5 focused on one of the red berries on the pie on the left. This camera actually allows one to see OOF regions projected by this lens (because one can actually focus it). I will see if I can figure out soon how to use this lens effectively to show that.


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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Carl, That is the way to use this camera (at least for me) and I am very delighted that I can do waist level shooting.

    Since I opened the thread with a picture of the CV15 lens, here is a shot (I still have to get used to this lens with this crop) though it. f/4.5 focused on one of the red berries on the pie on the left. This camera actually allows one to see OOF regions projected by this lens (because one can actually focus it). I will see if I can figure out soon how to use this lens effectively to show that.

    Luscious - both the tarts and the image! I liked using the CV15 on my M8, but was never able to actually focus the lens for close work so looking forward to using it properly on the G1.

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    Re: M4/3 to Leica

    I might as well throw these ones as it used the M4/3 to Leica adapter.

    A Leitz Milar 10cm lens was the macro lens. ~3.5X magnification. Bee was (dead) a test specimen. I used a Novoflex coldlight source with 3 fiberoptic out put cables.





    The compound eye of the Bee covered with hairs. One needs a real Macro lens to see that.

    Now, here is the set-up (of course, it was secured while taking the shots).



    The Bee shots were @ ISO100, typically ~1/160s, lens was stopped down (not way down as diffraction sets in and everything shows mushy).

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