GX7, the Swiss Army Camera?

[Godfrey]

"Many people" is different from "most of us".

I'm sorry, but telling someone that they are not representing your thoughts with their opinion is hardly reason for them to get all in a snit.

G

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I disagree. I think many of the enthusiasts, have been asking for years like maybe 10 or 12, on the forums, for a return to OM1/FM2 type and size cameras as well as small affordable rangefinder type bodies. Well, all the sudden the OMD, Fuji x100,100s, Xpro1 and XE1 come out and they sell like hot cakes. It only took the camera makers 10 years to figure out what a lot of us had known all along. So, no, I don't for a minute, think any of the electronics companies have a clue, most of the time. People in large corporations are still just people, they are not gods and to treat them as such thinking they know everything, only makes us into idiots.

... which is why both is needed. Note the title of this thread; the GX7 really is the Swiss Army Knife of cameras. As an alternative, I would like something even simpler than the OM-D. With film, I use an OM-2 and an F6 and enjoy both equally much. However, when time is an issue, I have a much higher hit rate with the Nikon.

I've been thinking a lot about these differences lately, and I see myself going back to film and vinyl records increasingly often. Still I don't have a smartphone, and I've figured out that I don't really want one. My job might force me to though. Not being available isn't always an alternative anymore.

So GX7 (or the good, "old" GH2) when I need quick action and no problems. For slower paced photography, I would clearly prefer one of the Fujis, but money is still a limiting factor, at least for me.

 

[Vivek]

Soooo, batteries for GX7 arrived
PATONAs are full okay.

Now I need a gooood dealer for GX7 ... hmmm, noooo preorder - I am not crazy!

Haha, pleading for 10x price ... Lumix batteries "Made in China"

Weltweit jährlich ca. 30-40 Fälle von explodierten Nicht-Original Akkus

Akkus minderer Qualität enthalten im Gegensatz zu den original Panasonic Lithium-Ionen Akkus oftmals
keine Schutzvorrichtungen. Bei Verwendung entsprechender Akkus kann es zum einen zu Überhitzung,
Auslaufen oder Explosionen kommen, zum anderen aber auch zu Schädigungen an den jeweils
verwendeten Geräten. Im schlimmsten Fall sogar zu Verletzungen des Anwenders (z.B. Verbrennungen).

Die Hauptursache für derartige Vorfälle sind Kurzschlüsse in der Akku-Zelle. Die Mehrheit der Kurzschlüsse
wird durch Außeneinflüsse (z.B. fallenlassen des Gerätes) hervorgerufen, die die Funktionalität der schlecht
verarbeiteten Akkus gefährden.


Panasonic analysiert jeden einzelnen berichteten Fall

Panasonic analysiert JEDEN EINZELNEN berichteten Fall von explodierenden Lithium-Ionen Akkus.
In ALLEN bisher bekannten Fällen von explodierten Akkus handelte es sich nachweislich um Nicht-Original
Akkus (entweder Fremdanbieter oder Fälschung), deren Schutzfunktionen nicht den internationalen Standards
entsprachen. Panasonic empfiehlt daher ausdrücklich die Verwendung von Original Panasonic Lithium-Ionen Akkus.

Panasonic weist ausdrücklich darauf hin, dass die Verwendung von Akkus minderer Qualität zu Sach- bzw.
Personenschäden führen kann. Panasonic übernimmt keine Haftung für Schäden jeder Art, die durch die
Verwendung von Nicht-Panasonic Li-Ionen Akkus entstanden sind.

Thanks for the post! I will have to wait and see if pana will sneakily disable their (3rd party batteries) use. They are, after all, a battery company, making a bundle of cash on their batteries.

 

[hot]

ALL of my Panasonic batteries are Made in China. I think they are produced by manufacturer XYZ like a lot of other "noname" batteries - same machine, but 10x price.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Is it really true? Does the GX7 use the same battery as my GH2. That is very good news indeed

 

[etrigan63]

Having used the following mirrorless cameras extensively I can state the following opinions (these are mine and you are not obliged to share them):

Oly EPL-1: Incremental improvement over the E-P1. Sensor needs a lot of work and the limited ISO range hurts it as a primary walkabout/travel rig.

Leica M8, M9: Solid, German "built-like-a-panzer" bauhaus design. Amazing lenses (with amazing prices). Has its warts (IR filters, poor high ISO performance, pretty much auto-nothing), but can take amazing images once learned. Forces you to be methodical. M9 improves incrementally. The Leica M Typ 240 brings the camera line into the 21st Century with a modern CMOS sensor design and all of the goodies that brings to the table.

Sony NEX-7: Wunderkind of the Sony NEX lineup, this camera essentially stuffed an A77 sensor into a tiny body. State of the art EVF and tilting screen make this camera a pleasure to use, especially with old glass. Lack of IBIS hurt the design as the high pixel density made it very prone to hand blur at slow shutter speeds. I found the "plate and cylinder" design hard to hold (I have big hands). The rumored NEX FF will undoubtedly address these shortcomings.

Oly OM-D EM-5: A fitting tribute to the classic OM line of film SLRs, this camera with its 5-axis IBIS and stable of great lenses (including the stunning 12-50 kit lens) makes this camera an excellent choice. Focus peaking was added on via firmware update addressing this camera's one technical shortcoming. The one niggly bit keeping me from using this (or any 4/3 camera for that matter) is 4:3 ratio of the sensor. Every image I take will have to be cropped in order to be printed at standard sizes.

Sony Alpha A99 SLT-A99V: Mark this moment as one of the few times I will ever agree with [strike]The Hack[/strike] Ken Rockwell. The Sony Alpha A99 is, in essence, a mirrorless camera. The translucent mirror doesn't really interfere with the image capturing process and only serves to redirect a small portion of the light to the phase-det array. Great low light performance + IBIS makes this an amazing shooter. Recent dance recitals with this camera and the 70-200mm G f/2.8 + 1.4x TC have yielded much higher keeper rates. This camera is a workhorse and it is workhorse big.

Fuji X-E1: This little gem and the equally fabulous 18 - 55mm kit lens make for a stellar walkabout/travel camera. It just needs a little tweak to the focus peaking that was added in the last update to allow different edge colors to be selected in the camera display. That is supposed to be coming in the next update.

The Panny GX7 appears to address a lot of the shortcomings of the m4/3 line of cameras. We'll see when the review samples arrive.

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[hot]

Is it really true? Does the GX7 use the same battery as my GH2. That is very good news indeed

 

[Godfrey]

Interesting battery/card compartment and door design. I see you acquired the image from
http://www.ephotozine.com/article/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gx7-expert-review-22581

Looking through the photos of the GX7 in this article: some nice design work. The cable connection interfaces are all on the left, opposite side of the camera from the grip and controls (unlike the E-P5). The design of the grip offsets the lens to the left a fair bit, it looks generously sized and very useful. I wondered if the flash would have the two-position popup as on the L1, but it appears not.

All in all, I think the GX7 looks more and more interesting. It's design looks more like a development of the LC1/L1 aesthetic the more I look at it, and the L1 was a superb working camera for me. I found in my experience using the G1 model (late 2008 to 2010) that it worked best with dedicated mFT mount lenses from wide to normal (up to 25-28 mm), and then I liked using it most with adapted manual lenses. There are many more top-notch lens choices in dedicated mount now than there were then, but since I have an excellent line-up of M-mount and R-mount lenses from 35mm to 180mm, I suspect this will mean that I'd want the body and maybe one or two dedicated mount lenses, and a few high quality mount adapters. I also have two of my favorite FourThirds SLR lenses (11-22 and 35 Macro) that will work nicely on it, although they are somewhat bulky.

The lack of an external sound input and the omission of image stabilization during video recording detracts a bit from its capabilities as a video camera, but I think if I want to do serious video I'd be better off with something more like this
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera
which has the same Micro-FourThirds lens mount.

All in all, very encouraging.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Interesting battery/card compartment and door design.

Unfortunately, Panasonic's battery/card doors tend to be more interesting than practical.

 

[Godfrey]

Unfortunately, Panasonic's battery/card doors tend to be more interesting than practical.

I agree, although this one looks useable. I miss the separate card door layout, but at least here it looks like you can make a tripod QR adapter plate that allows access to the battery/card without having to remove the adapter: seems plenty of room between the lens-axis centered tripod mount and the door's hinge and motion area.

The tetchy little battery/card doors on both the GXR and E-PL1 are no great shakes either, and of course there's the M design of "remove the whole baseplate to get to the battery or card" thing as well. Silly stuff.

G

 

[hot]

The lack of an external sound input and the omission of image stabilization during video recording detracts a bit from its capabilities as a video camera, but I think if I want to do serious video I'd be better off with something more like this htp://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera

I do not need external sound input - my ZOOM H1 is 10x better than external sound input. Also I do not need movie stabilisation - tripod was invented years ago (I am not a hard drinking guy ...)

Blackmagic for € 999 (body only) - 1x 2.10MP CMOS, 1920 x 1080 @ 30p - no, no, no. Sure it is a nice camcorder, but I am not Scorsese, I am not Jackson, I am not Cameron, all three would laugh (ROTFL).

 

[NigelC]

Looks like finally a viable replacement/enhancement for my GH2, of which key weakness is IQ above ISO400. The tiltable EVF is a fair trade for the less versatile LCD, but does it have the unique ability of GH2 to vary format without cropping.
When Panasonic brought out GH3 I thought they were going somewhere which wasn't why I adopted M43 but this is encouraging. I am a casual video user so can live without external mike but appreciate video quality of GH2. I just hope IQ is at least as good as OMD E5

 

[ggibson]

Ephotozine has their full GX7 review up, including ISO tests that you can compare to their E-P5 tests:

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Expert Review

GX7 @ ISO 3200

E-P5 @ ISO 3200

To me, the GX7 looks cleaner at higher ISOs like 3200 or 6400 (jpgs at least). There seems to be less artifacts from NR, and slightly better detail. Also, I noted that Panasonic, like their previous cameras, has a slightly more sensitive ISO calibration--the GX7 exposes a 1/4 stop higher shutter speed (in this case, 1/100 vs 1/80).

After looking at these, I'm inclined to say that Panasonic has raised the bar for m4/3, at least slightly, though it still remains to be seen whether dynamic range is at the same level as the Sony-made sensors.

 

[Godfrey]

Ephotozine has their full GX7 review up, including ISO tests that you can compare to their E-P5 tests:

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Expert Review

GX7 @ ISO 3200

E-P5 @ ISO 3200

The more I read about this camera, the more desirable it seems. It really does seem to be an outstanding design with great features.

G

 

[Tonygamble]

The more I read about this camera, the more desirable it seems. It really does seem to be an outstanding design with great features.

G

And yet we know almost nothing about the thing that takes the image - the Sensor.

Lots about the knobs and dials. Precious little about what will make our images better.


Tony

 

[Godfrey]

And yet we know almost nothing about the thing that takes the image - the Sensor.

Lots about the knobs and dials. Precious little about what will make our images better.

True, but as I have said before I had no real issues with the G1 model's sensor, and that was a while back. This new sensor, if it's on par with the E-M5 or E-P5 sensor, will certainly suffice.

I wait not only for the GX7 to be available to test, but also for Lightroom to support it.

G

 

[hot]

And yet we know almost nothing about the thing that takes the image - the Sensor.

Hehe, do you think it will have a baaaaad sensor? All my LUMIXes are excellent - and so will be GX7.

If a new car comes to market, do you ask for rubber of wheels?

 

[jonoslack]

If a new car comes to market, do you ask for rubber of wheels?

Certainly not . . . but I do ask about the performance, and the sensor is central to that. I'm not so convinced about the Panasonic sensors of the past, and it seems that the OMD and Pen 5 have Sony sensors (and very fine they are too). If the GX7 sensor is that good, then that's fine, but if it's just another Panasonic also ran, then, no. (mind you, the last camera I had from Panasonic was the GX1, and I was underwhelmed by the sensor). I think the quality of the IBIS is also relevant.

It's all very well ticking all the boxes (and they certainly have) - but in my opinion it's more about the quality of the ticks than whether they exist or not!

 

[Godfrey]

Certainly not . . . but I do ask about the performance, and the sensor is central to that. I'm not so convinced about the Panasonic sensors of the past, and it seems that the OMD and Pen 5 have Sony sensors (and very fine they are too). If the GX7 sensor is that good, then that's fine, but if it's just another Panasonic also ran, then, no. (mind you, the last camera I had from Panasonic was the GX1, and I was underwhelmed by the sensor). I think the quality of the IBIS is also relevant.

It's all very well ticking all the boxes (and they certainly have) - but in my opinion it's more about the quality of the ticks than whether they exist or not!

I can't but agree. However, I wonder what was so disappointing about the GX1 sensor.

The IBIS ... eh? None of my other cameras now have image stabilization other than the Pen E-PL1 that I picked up cheap, and it is hardly state of the art. I haven't found that IS in general nets me more than a stop or two worth of hand-holding capability ... It's most useful to me with slow-ish middling-long lenses that I'd like to hand-hold in slightly less than perfect lighting conditions, as opposed to a necessity for low light shooting.

That stop or two IS gain is just fine to, say, hold a 70 or 135mm lens (on mFT) steadily for a sports event down into the 1/100 second exposure range. That's good enough for my purposes.

G

 

[limbonaut]

I can't but agree. However, I wonder what was so disappointing about the GX1 sensor.

The IBIS ... eh? None of my other cameras now have image stabilization other than the Pen E-PL1 that I picked up cheap, and it is hardly state of the art. I haven't found that IS in general nets me more than a stop or two worth of hand-holding capability ... It's most useful to me with slow-ish middling-long lenses that I'd like to hand-hold in slightly less than perfect lighting conditions, as opposed to a necessity for low light shooting.

That stop or two IS gain is just fine to, say, hold a 70 or 135mm lens (on mFT) steadily for a sports event down into the 1/100 second exposure range. That's good enough for my purposes.

G

The IBIS on the e-m5 and the E-P5 are in another league. They net at least 3 stops and are IMHO a huge leap forward in image stabilization. You should give it a try once and get a sense if it makes as much a difference to you.