Hey G1 fans.

[monza]

:ROTFL: In your dreams Woody.
The G1 is a wonderful step forward, and it shows real prospects for the future, but the idea that it's an M8 substitute is (IMHO of course) one step too far.

Looks like Woody would sell *one* of his M8s...so it would be complementary, not a substitute.

Granted, it's easier to focus M lenses accurately on the G1 in good light . . . .but then, was that a problem?

For me, actually it was. Certainly not for all others.

As for the image quality, compared to compact cameras (like the D-lux4, ricoh GRDII etc) the G1 is stellar - wonderful - spectacular . . . compared to an M8 file it's simply 'okay'.

Considering the price differential...oh, well, don't need to say much else.

The EVF is really good, so much better than any other one I've seen, but there is the problem that by the time you've seen something . . . it's finished. Catching fleeting expressions in people is simply a non-starter.

Haven't seen this non-starter yet. Did you see the portrait Brian posted?

 

[barjohn]

Jono,
I realize that you are an M8 aficionado; however, by any objective measures I think the G1 files are as good as or often better than those produced by the M8. It has higher resoultion, less noise and better white balance and color accuracy. The JPGs are extremely good and the RAW files are quite maleable. The only place I see the M8 having more capability is in dynamic range and of course the RF type of viewfinder, though it has its own limitations and problems. As to requiring good light to focus manually, I think the G1 is much easier to focus in low light than the M8. I believe others here have found the same.

 

[jonoslack]

Looks like Woody would sell *one* of his M8s...so it would be complementary, not a substitute.

Hmm - to be honest, this was exactly what I had in mind when I bought the G1, and in some respects it's exceeded my expectations

For me, actually it was. Certainly not for all others.

Considering the price differential...oh, well, don't need to say much else.

I didn't think we were discussing price - and I'm sure that Woody wouldn'tbe
Still, I'll accept a variation of opinion on that one.

Haven't seen this non-starter yet. Did you see the portrait Brian posted?

Yes, but we all get lucky . . . :ROTFL: Seriously though, I wasn't talking about portraits, I was talking about candids, when the moment is sooo fleeting. I'm really impressed with the EVF of the G1 . . . but it's still true that shooting candids of people, what you get is something quite other then what you saw.

 

[jonoslack]

Jono,
I realize that you are an M8 aficionado; however, by any objective measures I think the G1 files are as good as or often better than those produced by the M8. It has higher resoultion, less noise and better white balance and color accuracy. The JPGs are extremely good and the RAW files are quite maleable. The only place I see the M8 having more capability is in dynamic range and of course the RF type of viewfinder, though it has its own limitations and problems. As to requiring good light to focus manually, I think the G1 is much easier to focus in low light than the M8. I believe others here have found the same.

HI John
I don't think I'm any kind of aficionado - except possibly to the A900, but we all have our weakspots!
I'm not sure what kind of objective measures you are using, and I'm not criticising the G1 files (I think they're excellent) but (again in my humble opinion) the RAW files simply don't have the perzang and presence of the M8 files (or the resolution, come to that).
White balance and jpgs on the M8 are rubbish - I've said it to Leica too (oh YES).
Focusing is excellent on the g1 - REALLY excellent, but if what you are focusing on is where the subject was 1/100th second ago . .

I did say, I think the G1 is a splendid step forward . . . and as a lightweight 'do anything' camera it's in a different league from the M8, but as a substitute M8 . . no.

 

[monza]

Is there a camera out there with shutter lag less than 0.01 sec? I'd like to know! That's what you'd need not to miss that facial expression. My D700 is 4x that long...and it's PDQ.

 

[jonoslack]

Is there a camera out there with shutter lag less than 0.01 sec? I'd like to know! That's what you'd need not to miss that facial expression. My D700 is 4x that long...and it's PDQ.

It isn't about shutter lag, it's about visuals and response. All I know, is that when I've been shooting the G1 in low light with people, the picture I get is something quite other than the picture I saw in the viewfinder (maybe I have eye-lag with EVF viewfinders).

You can quote any figures you like, but you won't convince me that my experience isn't true! (for me at least)

 

[monza]

I understand what you are saying. I'm just saying that if you use the figure 1/100s, even if your focus is infinitely fast, shutter lag isn't. The shot will still be lost.

 

[jonoslack]

I understand what you are saying. I'm just saying that if you use the figure 1/100s, even if your focus is infinitely fast, shutter lag isn't. The shot will still be lost.

the 1/100s was plucked from the air (silly me), but if you understand what I'm saying then that's fine.

I think that with an optical viewfinder (and practice) there's a whole business about anticipation and response, which really doesn't work that well with an EVF, but hey - it's my opinion, and I'm not trying to present it as a universal truth - simply that if you're used to using an RF (and like it) then you'll find the EVF on the G1 troublesome, even if it is the best EVF ever made!

 

[monza]

All in good fun. Every camera will miss that expression if it is only around for 1/100.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

(maybe I have eye-lag with EVF viewfinders).

Maybe that's a part of it. The slowness of EVFs does something to my concentration and ability to shoot a changing scene precisely, even if the EVF updates fast enough, at least theoretically. It's more the fact that there is a lag, as short as it may be, and how that changes my attitude. More of a brain-lag than an eye-lag, but still...

 

[jonoslack]

All in good fun. Every camera will miss that expression if it is only around for 1/100.

:ROTFL:

 

[jonoslack]

Maybe that's a part of it. The slowness of EVFs does something to my concentration and ability to shoot a changing scene precisely, even if the EVF updates fast enough, at least theoretically. It's more the fact that there is a lag, as short as it may be, and how that changes my attitude. More of a brain-lag than an eye-lag, but still...

Hi Jorgan
I hope you're well?
Happy New Year!

Have you shot with a G1?
It's interesting leaving review on, and then shooting people with the EVF - you follow the expression (as one does), press the shutter, then, up pops something quite different - most disconcerting!

Of course, it may simply be that when you shoot with an SLR (or a rangefinder) the review is not immediately shoved in your face, and by the time you look at the LCD on the back . . . . you've kind of forgotten what you were expecting.

Monza - we do understand each other (don't we?) - I'm not knocking here, and no longer playing the grumpy old man - I think it's an interesting and useful discussion (and I certainly think the G1 is a splendid camera).

 

[back alley]

no matter the gear, i seem to be the biggest limiting factor in my own photography.

that being said, the g1 works quite well for my kind of street shooting. i'm thinking that with a zm 21 lens attached it will make a great street shooter. i hope the 20/1.7 is released asap as that sounds like it would be perfect for me. i'm liking this whole auto focus thing too much.
i like really wide also and am wondering what i might do about that.

 

[barjohn]

Jono,

Your response puzzles me. On the objective reviews that have been published the G1 has been shown to have higher resolution than the M8. The same is true for color accuracy and my own eyes seem to confirm both. However, if you are talking about some perzang or presence that you see and is your subjective interpretation of "better" that is different. I did not find the M8 to be a particularly fast camera in any area but certainly anticipatory shooting is possible and probably easier with a RF viewfinder. The M8 is slow to start and slow to write its file and present it for review. This is in no way meant to put down the M8's file quality which is excellent. I would say the difference in resolution is so small as to probably only be visible under extreme conditions unlike say the Nikon D3x versus the Nikon D3. I can't speak to the A900 as I only know what I have read in LL on that camera.

 

[woodyspedden]

Hmm - to be honest, this was exactly what I had in mind when I bought the G1, and in some respects it's exceeded my expectations



I didn't think we were discussing price - and I'm sure that Woody wouldn'tbe
Still, I'll accept a variation of opinion on that one.


Yes, but we all get lucky . . . :ROTFL: Seriously though, I wasn't talking about portraits, I was talking about candids, when the moment is sooo fleeting. I'm really impressed with the EVF of the G1 . . . but it's still true that shooting candids of people, what you get is something quite other then what you saw.

Hey Jono

My opinon is based on the bias that with the EVF of the G1 the number of "misfires" due to poor focus should be less. Thus the G1 may improve the number of "keepers" in total. This is in terms of absolutes, not a few percent of keepers with one system vs another.

I am remaining impressed with what can be done with this (seemingly)primitive system compared to a $6K+ Leica rangefinder. I have to say that I think Panasonic has hit the nail on the head with this one. Let's have some cheers for the G1

Woody

 

[woodyspedden]

Hmm - to be honest, this was exactly what I had in mind when I bought the G1, and in some respects it's exceeded my expectations



I didn't think we were discussing price - and I'm sure that Woody wouldn'tbe
Still, I'll accept a variation of opinion on that one.


Yes, but we all get lucky . . . :ROTFL: Seriously though, I wasn't talking about portraits, I was talking about candids, when the moment is sooo fleeting. I'm really impressed with the EVF of the G1 . . . but it's still true that shooting candids of people, what you get is something quite other then what you saw.

Jono

I have been a fan of yours for a long time, admiring the shots you have captured etc.

But what the hell is the snide comment about me you managed to sneak in. Do you think I am some rich kvetch that doesn't need to think about money in order to get decent images. I have certainly owned a lot of gear but have been lucky to sell when the value is still high in order to get a newer system which I feel may contribute to even better images.

Why not confine yourself to evaluating images from all of us, regardless of what you think our disposable incomes may be, without stepping under the stairs to make the images you review (or just put down) appear less when viewed from the preamble you presuppose.

Maybe I am just biased but I think your comment is a really cheap shot. Do you know me? If not then why not shut up unless you have some evidence as to my motives.

Christ I thought we had ended this kind of cheap commentery on forums like DP Review. This is not the stuff that the GEt DPI forums are made of. Of if it is, then I will gladly retire to my own thoughts.

Have a nice day

Woody

 

[JimBuchanan]

I was a former subscriber to ReidReviews, also. Couldn't stand the interface. Just didn't see the value of the articles.

 

[psurfer]

Jono, in my brief time w/the G1 so far, *in which I've come to the camera on it's own terms* (not expecting to use it in exactly the same way as my other cameras -film...), I've not noticed an obstacle to capturing the moment I see for the shot --assuming that moment is viewed on one of the G1's screens. Now if you wanted to shoot w/out looking through/at the camera, then you're SOL. You have to accept the screen time as where the action takes place, and I think you can stop that w/fair accuracy.

(disregard all of the above if you're moving the camera fast in lower light, though, when the randomness principle will just about Completely take over.):clap:

 

[Brian Mosley]

Yes, but we all get lucky . . . :ROTFL: Seriously though, I wasn't talking about portraits, I was talking about candids, when the moment is sooo fleeting. I'm really impressed with the EVF of the G1 . . . but it's still true that shooting candids of people, what you get is something quite other then what you saw.

:cussing::cussing: What the HELL is that supposed to mean? :cussing::cussing:

:ROTFL: Seriously though, the harder I work, the luckier I get

I think I know what you mean Jono, and with that particular shot I was using the articulating LCD, shooting at waist level (can you do that with your M8? ) which allows me to see everything and not intimidate the subject with a camera in front of my face.

Hope you're having a better day today

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[nei1]

Brian you appear to be saying that using this camera is like pressing the pause button on a video recorder,doesnt appeal a great deal to be honest.



Just to put in a good word for Shaun,for me its as if Im doing the tests myself,he appears,on this subject,to think as I do and so his opinion is invaluable to me,just luck but there you go.