G1 request for feedback - an idea to improve MF control

[Terry]

John,
I'm not sure if the MF automatically engages for these lenses? Someone with Oly glass needs to chime in here.

I am just trying to think past what lenses I use to what I might use and how using different lenses then has a different operation and then operating free hand vs a tripod would be different. It can get confusing in the field when there are too many different variations and we are a small sample size on this forum. Just looking for ways to keep it simple.

 

[Brian Mosley]

Hi Terry,

I think you have spotted a hole in John's proposed method... I hadn't considered that, the scroll wheel would have to cycle through three functions - aperture, EV compensation, and focus zoom...

My proposal is as simple as possible - perhaps use the Fn button to enable/disable?

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[Terry]

I like the shutter half press if the Fn button with one touch (not having to go from Fn to a menu) turns the half press option on and off. You can easily get to to the function button with your thumb and be fast.

 

[Diane B]

I like the shutter half press if the Fn button with one touch (not having to go from Fn to a menu) turns the half press option on and off. You can easily get to to the function button with your thumb and be fast.

I like this solution also. I currently don't have any of these lenses but its likely at some point that I will so I am following this.

Diane

 

[Per Ofverbeck]

I like the shutter half press if the Fn button with one touch (not having to go from Fn to a menu) turns the half press option on and off. You can easily get to to the function button with your thumb and be fast.

By now, I have an uneasy feeling I´ve agreed to each one of the suggestions at one time or other.....

But this one sounds quite good. That Fn button is easier to reach than either the left arrow or the center button, so getting in and out of the half-press mode would be far faster than having to use a custom function in the menus.

I think it would satisfy most of us, really. In any case, I´ve discovered, after 30 hours with the adapter, that the currently used method is just too fiddly for anything but studio work (in a wider sense); as soon as things get moving, one is hopelessly left behind....

 

[Brian Mosley]

Hi Per, that's my feeling exactly - the current method is OK for landscape / stills but I'm looking for the easiest, fastest method to access MF assist zoom when shooting live...

This was really triggered by Sean Reid's excellent first part of his G1 review, where he highlighted how many button presses were required to access MF assist zoom.

This will be a big deal for anyone considering the G1 as a (part) replacement for their digital rangefinder... it needs to be fast and fluid - a part of the natural shooting process.

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[barjohn]

What ever method Panasonic engineers would find that avoided the two button sequence currently used would be a big improvement. I still want a focus patch that lets me continue to see the entire image. I find it disconcerting that as soon as I have the object focused and 1/2 press the shutter button it jumps to the full unmagnified image. Since I am handholding the camera and there is always some slight movement, I can no longer tell if I am still in focus of make last moment corrections without going through the two button sequence all over again.

 

[Brian Mosley]

I agree John - a magnified patch would be great as an option.

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[Ranger 9]

I still want a focus patch that lets me continue to see the entire image. I find it disconcerting that as soon as I have the object focused and 1/2 press the shutter button it jumps to the full unmagnified image.

I agree completely with barjohn's criticism and suggestion. Some kind of magnified "loupe" view in the center of the finder image would be a great improvement; you could focus and still make sure you hadn't lost your framing.

I made this simulation of such a feature using an image I borrowed from the dcresource review of the G1. Whaddaya think?

 

[monza]

Just flip up the magnifier on the waist level finder of the Rolleif..uh, oh. Nevermind.

The magnified central area is cool. Could it be moved around, or would it always be in the center, requiring a focus-then-reframe sequence?

 

[psurfer]

Magnified small central portion is KEY, and the only way to go if there is to be any semblance of speed in operation handheld (and any hope the G1 could be taken seriously as a digital RF). You must be able to see the whole frame while focusing. I wrote this the other day in the DPReview thread.

The method of getting there?- the Fn button's ok, but kind of hard to find with your thumb (I would try adding a glob of epoxy on it and hope it stuck, to differentiate it from the other 4way buttons). Since it's already assignable, that's likely the button w/ best chance for Pana to agree to adding a function on.

If the film mode button wasn't so flush w/the body, it could be a better choice- either control it w/your thumb, or use index finger, requiring a switch to using your middle finger on the shutter. For me it's still comfortable, and something I'd be willing to do to have a usable MF.

In either case, it would solve a poorly implemented half-feature currently on the G1. I bought it sight unseen, influenced by a lot of enthusiasm about how easy MF was. It's far from it. I didn't realize that they must have only tried it mounted on tripod.

 

[psurfer]

Another thing that would be enormously helpful would be some kind of focus aid (within the magn assist view) for the times in low light when the screen res -esp the EFV- just gets too coarse and contrast-less to focus easily, if at all, even at the highest magn.

e-split image? e-microprism spot?

 

[barjohn]

When you use an AF capable lens like the kit lens one only needs to turn the focusing ring to engage the magnification making it easy; however with older MF lenses the two button sequence is required, not so easy.

The AF lock button was my other suggestion since you won't be using AF with an MF lens. As I recall you can set this button to AF Lock or Exposure lock or both in the menu. AF lock could be MF engage. When used for two functions it requires a second click to toggle function (if I remember correctly).

 

[Ranger 9]

The magnified central area is cool. Could it be moved around, or would it always be in the center, requiring a focus-then-reframe sequence?

It's just pixels on a display, so I assume they could make it do anything they want.

Since the G1 already has the ability to move the AF point around, I would think (from my cavalier armchair-engineer perspective) that it wouldn't be difficult to make the "loupe" follow it.

This combined with Brian's suggested one-push control for magnification would seem to be a pretty hot setup for manual focus operation: position the spot where you want it, toggle it on and off when you need it. If they could add a contrast "peaking" indication (maybe the loupe's rim turns from red to green?) that would be even cooler.

 

[monza]

If the loupe is moving around on screen, what if I want to zoom in? Maybe a few steps of zoom until the entire display is magnified (as it works now?)

 

[Brian Mosley]

You lost me on that 2nd paragraph John - this needs to be as simple and quick as possible - absolute minimum of shifting hand positions, finding buttons etc... it needs to be integral to the shooting operation, to be seamless.

I like the inserted focus patch idea - with the ability to position it anywhere on the screen... but still would love to have the fast toggle view option.

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[simonclivehughes]

The AF lock button was my other suggestion since you won't be using AF with an MF lens. As I recall you can set this button to AF Lock or Exposure lock or both in the menu. AF lock could be MF engage. When used for two functions it requires a second click to toggle function (if I remember correctly).

I think John's suggestion to use the AF lock button to invoke the toggle is excellent. It's easily reachable with your thumb and it has a ridge on it making it very identifiable by touch only. Use AF lock to toggle it on (in MF mode), then use the shutter button as Brian is suggesting. This makes more sense to me than using the Function button.

Ciao,

 

[barjohn]

The AF/AE Lock button is right under your thumb so if you are using a manual lens the button would be a MF magnify toggle instead of an AF lock since you don't have an AF lens you haven't lost anything. First push turns on MF magnify, second push engages AE lock, third push turns all back off. Only works this way if focus switch set to MF and the lens has no communications with the system, i.e. MF only lenses. Lenses that can communicate with the system can continue to use the focus ring as the switch to magnify or not. I would still want the image patch (prefer a square or rectange to a circle or loop) that can be moved around the image as needed.

 

[simonclivehughes]

I would still want the image patch (prefer a square or rectange to a circle or loop) that can be moved around the image as needed.

John, I agree here. If you are focussing at an non-center point, you want that magnified inset image to appear roughly where it is in the overall image, not dead center.

Cheers,

 

[Brian Mosley]

I agree the AF/AE lock button is the easiest to find, but three presses to cycle through the two functions is clumsy.

Cheers

Brian