Was the G1 made for us??

[Brian Mosley]

quick responses from a very wet and cold paris

Brian

I agree that Panasonic should take advantge of our enthusiasm. We are in marketing speak 'key influencers' who will spread the word of the G1 not only to other enthusiasts but people we know who are interested in buying a new camera and need guidance through the decision making process.

But lets not delude ourselves - I am sure the G1's bought by people here represent a small fraction of the total sales. Anecdotal evidience i know - but was in a branch of Jessops just after christmas and they were saying that they had sold out of G1's over the Christmas period.

Personally I am holding off until Olympus show their hand, and hopefully the lens range is fleshed out with a small wide angle fast prime.

Cheers
K

Hi Kevin,

I think your mention of 'key influencers' guiding people we know towards buying the G1 doesn't make sense... I would only really recommend the G1 at the current price point to someone seriously interested in legacy prime lenses.

Anyone just looking for an ultra compact DSLR class cam would be pointed towards the E-410 or E-510... both offer the very best value for money available imho - especially when you factor in the range of lenses available in terms of cost vs performance.

Only if you can't find an E-410 or E-510 - the next best option being the E-420/E-520

The thing to realise is that magazine editors, reviewers and possibly buyers (e.g. for Jessops) monitor these forums to gauge the enthusiasm for a new camera - often we early adopters worldwide give the first information available. So you see, our influence becomes magnified into the mainstream... look at how long the dpreview (which is probably the most influential of all camera reviews) take to come out - ask yourself whether the dpreview staff read their own forums?

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[kevinparis]

Brian

Agree with your point that the 420/520 represents better value at the moment.. But Panasonic dont have anything in that space of the market.. just the G1... so they will be hoping rightly or wrongly that the early adopters will spread their message ... not the olympus one

 

[Leica 77]

Hello Brian,
Thanks for your feedback! I agree with you that it would be very nice to have EVFs on 4xx and 5xx 4/3 cameras, especially when one uses manual-focus lenses. One of the features I enjoy most in using the new Lumix G1 is the ease of manual focusing through its precision EVF. When the view is enlarged in the EVF, it is nice to be able to accurately focus. Before the introduction of the G1, I tried AF-confirm lens adapters and custom installed split-image focusing screens on 4/3 cameras. I have more confidence in the EVF than the use of AF-confirm adapters or split-image focusing screens when I use manual lenses of repute. Best regards. Leica 77

 

[Brian Mosley]

Absolutely agree Leica 77, the EVF + no flippy flappy mirror + articulating lcd makes the G1 a superb legacy lens cam.

I hope that Olympus can see the value now, in supporting legacy lens owners... the associated buzz is giving the G1 a fantastic takeoff in the general marketplace too!

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[Brian Mosley]

Brian

Agree with your point that the 420/520 represents better value at the moment.. But Panasonic dont have anything in that space of the market.. just the G1... so they will be hoping rightly or wrongly that the early adopters will spread their message ... not the olympus one

Kevin, I'm not interested in spreading a message for either company - I'm interested in learning from fellow photographers and sharing my own experience of what works for me

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[Terry]

I really don't understand the "value" statement of the E420 vs the G1 in terms of making a recomendation to a non enthusiast.

The price on the G1 has dropped so the gap is narrowing but there still is the major difference of image stabilization which for many, many users does make a difference worth paying for.
In size and weight the G1 definitely still has an advantage for the G1 when lenses are factored in.
I think it has been shown that while not fast (what kit lenses are?) the G1 kit lenses holds it's own vs the competition.
The articulating LCD makes for more flexible shooting.
Finally, it seems the sensor gives the best results yet for a 4/3 sensor.

Once you step up to the 520 the image stabilization issue goes away but we are now back into larger size (see Guys comparison pictures). In addition, some of the other G1 nicities listed above still apply and the price difference is even smalller.

I'm curious as to how you would tell somebody what the advantage of these two models is? I'm just going through this now with my friend's father so it has immmediate relevance to me.

 

[Brian Mosley]

Hi Terry,

the E-410 / E-420 is considerably cheaper than the G1 + 4/3rds adapter - and will support the whole range of existing 4/3rds standard lenses with PDAF as well as CDAF.

If you need stabilisation with the E-410/E-420 you can add a stabilised lens (I have the PL 14-150 which is a superb lens - no doubt about the Leica involvement there)... but good technique and a fast lens can make a big difference there.

The biggest advantage of the G1 over both the E-420 and E-520 as a standard camera, is the articulating screen.

The extra couple of megapixels and weaker AA filter makes for sharper landscape images - but I do feel it necessary to shoot RAW to get the best quality, whereas you could argue jpeg shooters are very well served by Olympus.

I think the E-420 / E-520 are easier to use (the control panel just works really well to access configuration settings) and better all-round cams... for example, both have built in remote control for the FL50R flash units - you can control 3 flashes from the standard camera.

Hope that explains my preference. The G1 is *the* camera to recommend for legacy lens owners imho.

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[Terry]

E420 body @B&H $380
panny lens @ B&H $1100

E420 kit @ B&H $480
Lenses no faster, no OIS, etc.

Panny G1
From Prodigital on eBay $530
45-200mm with my Panny discount $259

 

[peterv]

If you need stabilisation with the E-410/E-420 you can add a stabilised lens (I have the PL 14-150 which is a superb lens - no doubt about the Leica involvement there)... but good technique and a fast lens can make a big difference there.

I was wondering what would happen if you put a O.I.S. lens on a stabilised Oly. For example the E3 or the E-520. Would you get an even more stable pocture with even less motion blurr?

 

[Vivek]

The Lumix G1 is an incredible little camera which appears to be made for many of us -- DSLR enthusiasts. With the use of various lens adapters, mostly available on eBay, I have been able to put some of my favorite 35mm lenses besides Leica M lenses on the G1. I post several images. Thanks. Leica 77

Leica77, I would be interested in seeing some shots through that tiny 17mm fisheye Takumar. Thanks.

 

[Brian Mosley]

E420 body @B&H $380
panny lens @ B&H $1100

E420 kit @ B&H $480
Lenses no faster, no OIS, etc.

Panny G1
From Prodigital on eBay $530
45-200mm with my Panny discount $259

Thanks Terry, your figures confirm my post (I didn't think it necessary to prove my point by trawling the numbers - but thanks for taking the time).

p.s. That looks awfully expensive for a panny lens - but as you know it's not a lumix... and it works equally well on the G1, but just feels oddly unbalanced (as I'm sure your Panasonic Leica 25mm f1.4 does)

p.p.s. you didn't post the cost of the 4/3rds adapter - it's about £130 over here in the UK.

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[Terry]

Actually,
I'm not trawling for numbers because as I said in my post I'm currently going through this real time for someone.

However, I don't think I can tell a 70 year old that they will be fine with the E420 kit with no OIS and a slow kit lens. So, to get OIS you are either going larger with the 5xx or going much more expensive with the Panny lens or paying $300 for OIS and the other nice things the G1 offers.

So, actually for my recommendation I actually don't think I will recommend the Oly 420 kit to him.

edit: Brian, if I take your PPS ($165) into consideration, it makes the 420 + Panny lens an even less cost effective way to get OIS and tips the balance further in favor of the G1.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

My 520 is for sale folks just a friendly reminder. I agree the 520 OLY is a much simpler camera in menu terms and functions and is a very nice and if you bought one cam it offers a lot in terms of system( for now). For me it is stuck between a D700 and a G1 which in reality I need the D700 but want the G1 for fun. Now having said that I have shot the OLY 520 for paid work and it works but need the D700 more for a more rounder fuller unit. The G1 for me is something I can throw in my bag or over my shoulder as a anywhere camera. Seriously I will buy a G1 but not sure as a Pro I can use it for pay. Hope that makes sense and is not considered snobbery but the G1 and the use of other lenses to me is the attraction and some of the features on it are just downright awesome and honestly for the 650 you pay for it the others should be ashamed they don't do a lot of cool things the G1 does. Makes you wonder how a 650 dollar camera has more features than cams costing 2 to 10 times as much. What really baffles me is just a couple features are not in my very expensive MF system. Regardless though the G1 represents a new and up and coming breed of cams and for the size of it and what you can do with it , I call that evolutionary and compelling. Please trust me those two words do NOT come out of my mouth very often if ever.

Now the question is asked was it made for us, I would say 90 percent of this forum probably not since most folks here are pretty advanced in photography, what is striking most of us though is it's ability to do something very different than any other cam and that is the attraction for us. It was intended market wise for a slightly better than a P&S shooter but they did not count on the rest of us that found some very neat added benefits to it. Let's be honest here they did not count on most of us buying it and using it in the fashion that is running rampant around here. Bottom line is this Pano is thrilled about it and so are we. That is a win win and that does not happen very often in the photo industry.

This cam reminds me of the first Canon 1ds that came out which till this day i think is still there best cam they ever made, maybe not the noise floor but the image quality and look they still have not matched. This G1 reminds me of that in a sense with image quality and look which is very very nice and competes very strongly with systems costing much more and this brings me back to my comment on evolutionary and compelling. Frankly they built a camera that exceeded there price tag. Very rare and I would not scream too loud or they may change it and ruin it for us. :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Brian Mosley]

Actually,
I'm not trawling for numbers because as I said in my post I'm currently going through this real time for someone.

However, I don't think I can tell a 70 year old that they will be fine with the E420 kit with no OIS and a slow kit lens. So, to get OIS you are either going larger with the 5xx or going much more expensive with the Panny lens or paying $300 for OIS and the other nice things the G1 offers.

So, actually for my recommendation I actually don't think I will recommend the Oly 420 kit to him.

edit: Brian, if I take your PPS ($165) into consideration, it makes the 420 + Panny lens an even less cost effective way to get OIS and tips the balance further in favor of the G1.

Hi Terry, I'm glad you had some of the numbers to hand - thanks, and another possible advantage for your 70yr young friend may be the EVF which is great for spectacle wearers.

This just illustrates that everyone has unique needs and wants, and it's dangerous to generalize with our recommendations. It's infact why I take the care to qualify my enthusiasm for the G1.

The pps cost only applies to the G1 by the way, making it $165 more expensive if you wish to access the full range of 4/3rds lenses.

If you don't need the flexibility of an interchangeable lens camera, has your friend considered the FZ28?

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

I still think that the amount of people buying the G1 for using legacy lenses is a tiny fraction of a percent relative to their world market for this camera and from panny's point of view, not only should their marketing be concentrating on their real customer base, but also on selling more panny lenses! That it would harm that fraction of a percent is no doubt utterly insignificant wishful thinking aside. This isn't a niche camera aimed at a niche market, it's a mainstream soccor mom's bridge camera with a market base so far from that of the epson as to be on a different planet.

 

[Terry]

Whoops Brian, my goof....I was thinking G1+panny14-150 on the adapter.

I did consider the FZ28 in the recommendation. The person asked me for a dslr recommendation between Nikon and Canon. I told him to consider the Panny and Oly options.

I too, take care when making recommendations and in my first email back to him it was the pros and cons of each system. I definitely found from my forray into the Nikon world that the lens selection could either be disappointing or very big and heavy. Canon really doesn't seem to be that much different. Oly seems to have a much better lens lineup. Etc.

Where I think we differ a bit is that I believe even without the desire to use legacy lenses a G1 14-45, 45-200 and 20 f1.7 (assuming it is good) makes a very compelling kit.

Also, if the lens is good, the two lens 14-140 plus 20 f1.7 could also be a great set-up for a lot of people.

Every so often, try and pop off a shot or two using intelligent Auto. I think you will be surprised at how well the exposures come out.

 

[nei1]

The leica V lux is now very cheap too Terry

 

[Terry]

The leica V lux is now very cheap too Terry

Thanks, I gave my brother the FZ50 for his 40th birthday 1.5 years ago. It is a very good camera and it too was included in my recommendations . I actually didn't realize you could still find the v-lux lurking in stores.

 

[Brian Mosley]

I'm not going to recommend the G1 + 20mmf1.7 or G1 + 14-140 because they don't exist yet and a lot can happen in the meantime. Also, we don't know the pricing.

What I can wholeheartedly recommend is the G1 for legacy lens users. Sorry to disappoint those seeing the G1 as a killer entry level all purpose cam, but for me it's too restricted lens wise or too expensive and restricted with 4/3rds adapter.

That can change the moment a raft of m4/3rds lenses arrive and the body price drops... But for right now I would favour the FZ28 or E-4x0/E-5x0. As Guy mentions above, they may not be as much novel fun, but they deliver on IQ, ease of use and VFM.

I will try some more iAuto shooting - thanks for the suggestion Terry.

Wish I was in the USA right now... how's the atmosphere? We could do with some change over here too!

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[nei1]

With the economy as it is over here Britain is just a big antiques shop,and thats on the shelves,god knows whats lurking in the dark dusty corners!:ROTFL: