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Leica 75 'cron on M8 and G1

jonoslack

Active member
Hi There
the last test (I promise). This was really for my own benefit, but somebody might like to look.

One thing that became immediately obvious, was that, on a tripod with the leica 75 'cron aspheric, the G1 was soooooooo much easier to focus and compose - different world really.

The leica 75 summicron Aspheric is one of the very sharpest lenses you can get, it's a modern design, and some might think it rather brutal, but I love it, and it was good for my purposes here.

I took a few shots to get the focus right (on the stem of the apple) and the field of view as close as I could (obviously I had to move forward a bit with the M8 to get the same FOV). I've then done crops from the middle and the edge. All photos were at f4, with base ISO (100 on the G1, 160 on the M8).

Worth noting that the blue of the wool on the G1 is more accurate than on the M8 (even with an IR filter, it's not perfect!)

Taken on a tripod, with delayed release.

In each case it is the Leica shot first.

I'm sure you can make your own minds up!






centre




edge (ish)



 

bradhusick

Active member
Thanks for these, Jono.
The wool shot really tells the story. The M8 makes the wool feel like you can touch it. The G1 looks like an oil painting of wool.
-Brad
 

Brian Mosley

New member
The M8 image is really much better imho - apart from the obvious IR problem affecting the wool colour.

The wool looks out of focus with the G1... what do you think caused that?

Thanks Jono

Brian
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi Brad

Thanks for these, Jono.
The wool shot really tells the story. The M8 makes the wool feel like you can touch it. The G1 looks like an oil painting of wool.
-Brad
it looks like it's out of focus doesn't it . . . but see below:

The M8 image is really much better imho - apart from the obvious IR problem affecting the wool colour.

The wool looks out of focus with the G1... what do you think caused that?

Thanks Jono

Brian
I'm a little confused as well - I really did try and get the focus perfectly on the apple, and it does look like I've succeeded. Theoretically, at the same f stop, the G1 shot ought to have more depth of field, not less.

The M8 shouldn't have been showing IR problems though (the lens is coded, it had an IR filter, and the coding was switched on).

This stuff is so intangible - but I suppose the results really bear out my (dreadfully subjective) gut feeling, which is that the M8 just makes better files.

Worth noting also that the G1 is louder than the M8.(blind tested with the boss)
 

woodyspedden

New member
Hi Brad



it looks like it's out of focus doesn't it . . . but see below:



I'm a little confused as well - I really did try and get the focus perfectly on the apple, and it does look like I've succeeded. Theoretically, at the same f stop, the G1 shot ought to have more depth of field, not less.

The M8 shouldn't have been showing IR problems though (the lens is coded, it had an IR filter, and the coding was switched on).

This stuff is so intangible - but I suppose the results really bear out my (dreadfully subjective) gut feeling, which is that the M8 just makes better files.

Worth noting also that the G1 is louder than the M8.(blind tested with the boss)
And if you get the upgraded shutter the M8 is quieter still. Love mine

Woody
 

Y.B.Hudson III

New member
buy sum gLassez guys... the focus is shift'd towards t' w00L in the first and towards the front of the appLe in the second... t' M8 appLe sucKs ... IMH0
 

scho

Well-known member
buy sum gLassez guys... the focus is shift'd towards t' w00L in the first and towards the front of the appLe in the second... t' M8 appLe sucKs ... IMH0
Agree, on M8 focus shift. G1 sharper at focus point. Toss up image quality wise, both are good.
 

jonoslack

Active member
buy sum gLassez guys... the focus is shift'd towards t' w00L in the first and towards the front of the appLe in the second... t' M8 appLe sucKs ... IMH0
Maybe marginally - but It IS marginal - I'd have thought that the extra dof on the G1 would make up for it.

One thing I WILL say is the critical focusing is much much MUCH easier on the G1
 

cam

Active member
One thing I WILL say is the critical focusing is much much MUCH easier on the G1

thank god i like blurry emotional images :ROTFL:

seriously, thank you for this. i do prefer the Leica image and process almost everything to b/w anyways so colour doesn't really bother me. the M8 is more tactile IMO. i do admit the easier focusing is tempting (my eyes aren't that great) and just about the.*only* thing that tempts me. but not quite enough...
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi Cam
Like this?





It's worth saying that, although the G1 is much easier to focus accurately . . the M8 is much much MUCH faster to focus inaccurately:ROTFL:

As for the eyes - you must be much younger than me (57) mine are dreadful, but contact lenses are the photographer's friend (a distance one to look through the viewfinder, and a close one in the other eye to read the controls:salute:)
 

cam

Active member
Hi Cam
Like this?
black and white just floats my boat :p

It's worth saying that, although the G1 is much easier to focus accurately . . the M8 is much much MUCH faster to focus inaccurately:ROTFL:
speed is good (well, sometimes) :ROTFL:

As for the eyes - you must be much younger than me (57) mine are dreadful, but contact lenses are the photographer's friend (a distance one to look through the viewfinder, and a close one in the other eye to read the controls:salute:)
contact lenses here as well, blind as a bat. not as good as they can be to keep me from getting reading glasses. i have a magnifier/diopter on my camera, but still... i can see reading glasses in the near future. and i absolutely could not do that two different lenses thingy you do. i'd fall flat on my face!
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Apart from the focus issue, it is obvious that coding and IR cut filter do not do much to the M8's IR woes.

There is minimal effect (I am not surprised) with respect to DOF with the different crops/sensor sizes.

The shadow noise (even at base ISO) from G1 is exactly what I find soo annoying. As I said before, even D40x (10mp, with a heavy AA filter and 2.5mm thick filter stack on the CCD, unlike the M8) beats the G1 hands down.
 

barjohn

New member
I challenge you to tell me which has greater shadow noise. Even highly enlarged I don't see any significant difference. I wasn't careful on sizing the crops.
 
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barjohn

New member
I think the DOF difference is because the 75 is a 150 on the G1 and only a 97.5 on the M8 so while in theory the G1 should have greater DOF it is offset by the crop multiplier.

To my eyes the G1 looks better and more realistic. The apple is much clearer and as the center of attention stands out from the background objects as it should. The M8 favors the wool ball to the left but then renders its colors incorrectly (only supposed to happen with synthetics) and thus would be a poor shot if the intent was to make the apple the objet of the picture. Change the apple to a person and it becomes a throw away. Who would care about the wool ball? If it is a portrait you want the person to look good and the eyes sharply in focus. Finally, you want the colors right.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I challenge you to tell me which has greater shadow noise. Even highly enlarged I don't see any significant difference. I wasn't careful on sizing the crops.
Beats me, John. If I look at something like that I would not find any difference at all!:)

What I said is based on what I see with my own snaps and for my own purpose. Yes, of course, you can challenge it, interpret it as you wish.

BTW, the wool with the odd M8 colors has synthetic dye and that reacts to IR.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I think the DOF difference is because the 75 is a 150 on the G1 and only a 97.5 on the M8 so while in theory the G1 should have greater DOF it is offset by the crop multiplier.
Ummmm.... no. The crop multiplier is just that, a crop multiplier. The DOF stays the same for any given focal length regardless of sensor size, but will increase when you move away from the subject to obtain the same crop :lecture:
 

barjohn

New member
Jorgen,
OK, then please explain what our eyes see. :)

Vivek, my point exactly. If you can't see it objectively, it's called wishful thinking...er viewing. :)
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I threw this so called "objectivity" out the window a long time ago. Usage of that word even in so called "exact" areas of science is purely subjective, IME.

There is so much waste of a debate/discussion centered around, for example, depth of focus. The whole thing starts with an assumption and gets more "interesting" with an estimation of circle of confusion and then it becomes down right ridiculous when numbers are thrown around claiming "objectivity".:ROTFL:

All I see, John, is the pixelated grey in the upper B&W snipe you show and the lack of that pixelation in the bottom clip. Do I interpret it otherwise? No way!:ROTFL:

Bottom line for me is what works for me. I am not here to recommend/promote anything on behalf of anyone. I do not have any intentions to market reviews in the future (oh, yes, the word "credibility" gets thrown around loosely as well) either.
If am wrong.. <shrug>
 
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