Leica 75 'cron on M8 and G1

[Jorgen Udvang]

Jorgen,
OK, then please explain what our eyes see.

No I can't and although the theory is clear enough (check dofmaster.com for the exact figures), there's an abundance of gray areas. Just have a look over at the dpreview forums. I'm convinced some people over there would have killed their opponent if they could, over tiny disagreements about DOF, not least considering the 4/3 format.

Different lenses behave differently, and render differently, also depending on the distance to the subject. At least that's my experience, but I'm in no way a scientist. Still, the main rule is very easy to relate to. As for Jonos images, my guess is that they aren't focused at exactly the same spot. It's impossible to see from an image if it's front focused in relation to the closest subject, but I'm only guessing of course.

 

[jonoslack]

Jorgen,
OK, then please explain what our eyes see.

HI John
I think that Jorgen has it, the focus point is just slightly forward on the G1 (probably only by a couple of mm)

Vivek, my point exactly. If you can't see it objectively, it's called wishful thinking...er viewing.

I'm with Vivek here - there is no objective answer to this issue - it's about feel and subjectivity (for instance you prefer the G1 shot, others prefer the M8).

as for the IR issue - it's under artificial lighting, and it certainly is a synthetic dye. It's actually very unusual to see any IR effect when using the filter. God knows what that wool would look like without it :ROTFL:

 

[Will]

Deliberately not finding out which image was from which camera I've spent quite a while just trying to decide which image I liked looking at best.
The wool colour wasn't an issue since I had no idea what it should have been.

So, purely as an independent observer who hasn't ever used either camera I found I preferred the Leica image, and the more I looked at them the more I preferred it. I then checked to see which camera captured the images and wrote this.

 

[barjohn]

The point I was making is that when you know which camera an image comes from it influences your opinion based on your bias toward one camera or another. If the information is hidden from you and you can't distinguish which image is better that tells you that it is your bias fooling the eyes and not really the image.

 

[dseelig]

I looked at a g1 the other day and could not manually focus the thing in the viewfinder very well the pull out screen I could but there goes the stealth factor was I doing something wrong? I was at a camera store and the salesman was useless.

 

[Vivek]

I bought the G1 not knowing what kind of image quality there is. I own many other cameras besides this and based on my own experiences with them (not arbitrary grey clips), I draw my own conclusions and choose the gear that suits my tasks.

 

[barjohn]

Vivek,

The grey clips were just to show that shadow noise, at least in the images posted was indistinguishable. You may be one of those people that have enough experience with each of your cameras that you can tell at a glance when looking at images taken of the same scene such that the crops were the same size, which camera took which image. I would venture a GUESS that very few people could do that if the images were all tweaked for optimum and white balance and there were no dead giveaways like blacks that looked magenta. I know I can't. I have a mix of Canon G7, Nikon D90, M8 and G1 images in my library and I can often be fooled. The G7 is the easiest to catch on close examination because of the greater DOF and visibly higher noise in many cases.

 

[Vivek]

Vivek,
You may be one of those people that have enough experience with each of your cameras that you can tell at a glance when looking at images taken of the same scene such that the crops were the same size, which camera took which image.

It was clear from your earlier post what you enjoy most. This tactic of trying to volunteer what I can or can not tell and all such nonsense won't work.

If you are looking for arguments for the sake of arguments, you need look for another person. I am sorry.

 

[barjohn]

Vivek,

Sorry, I thought I was being complimentary. I already admitted that I couldn't do it. No intent to start an argument, either you can or you can't, doesn't bother me either way.

 

[Vivek]

Hi John,

My apologies for the harsh post. I thank you for responding kindly to it.

About a decade ago, I bought the book, "Image Clarity" with the intent to make "high resolution" photos (film age). Oh, yes, with a 1951 USAF resolution target in hand, I set out in my quest. While I did pick up several neat technical aspects in that process, I got really interested in photography and realized the silliness of my initial quest. Did I hear that it would all be silly when I started, oh yes! OK, let us not go there to the wasted time...:ROTFL::ROTFL:
You get the idea, right?