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The Digital Pen F

raist3d

Well-known member
hmm, this is a hard choice. I do like both the PenF and the new a6300, especially the new EVFs in both. Correct me if I am wrong but does the a6300 have a higher resolution than the PenF? If I was to get a a6300, I would pair it up with the Metabones Speedbooster ultra EF-Emount adapter to relive the full frame experience without having the fake mirror box design found in the A7 series.
Both are the same resolution (or about so) but the A6300 offers the ability to refresh at 120Hz.

- Ricardo
 

etrigan63

Active member
CameraStoreTV review.

Well, ouch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqmMrp-pVp4

I am asking if the AF is also problematic with other primes and not just the new telephoto. My take from this- expect operational performance in line with the OMD EMK5 II overall.

- Ricardo
Everything Chris points out is something that can be dealt with in a firmware update or two. I agree, it should not have been there in the first place, but it is what it is. This is a photo camera like the Nikon Df.

Seriously, I have never really shot video with a any of the cameras I have owned. I have a video camera for that. Hell, I've shot more video with my iPhone. No camera is a be-all, end-all device. Some are better at some things than others.
 
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raist3d

Well-known member
Everything Chris points out is something that can be dealt with in a firmware update or two. I agree, it should not have been there in the first place, but it is what it is. This is a photo camera like the Nikon Df.

Seriously, I have never really shot video with a any of the cameras I have owned. I have a video camera for that. Hell, I've shot more video with my iPhone. No camera is a be-all, end-all device. Some are better at some things than others.
Well, I don't buy cameras based on firmware upgrades. I would have never counted on Olympus on doing so, but looks like Fuji started to get them into the update train which is great- but still.

I don't care about video either. But I do care about laggy EVF, somewhat OK overall speed/response of operation, the EVF that was turning LCD->EVF->LCD.

Continuous AF seems odd also, though thankfully I do not care too much about it. A little bit.

- Ricardo
 

etrigan63

Active member
Well, I don't buy cameras based on firmware upgrades.

- Ricardo
Neither do I, however since the trend is leaning toward introducing new features with firmware updates (THANK YOU FUJI!), it is possible that Olympus upper management (at least in the camera division) may have to pressured to get the product launched before it was fully baked. Lord knows the software industry has operated like this for decades.

Again, my goal is to use this as a walkabout/street/travel camera that I can kit out with three small primes and not cost a mint. I looked at the A6000/A6300 and while very whizzy and nice (I am getting my daughter an A6000), it is very difficult to properly kit it out with a set of fast 35-50-85 (equivalent) primes. Sony just doesn't make those lenses.
 

retow

Member
Neither do I, however since the trend is leaning toward introducing new features with firmware updates (THANK YOU FUJI!), it is possible that Olympus upper management (at least in the camera division) may have to pressured to get the product launched before it was fully baked. Lord knows the software industry has operated like this for decades.

Again, my goal is to use this as a walkabout/street/travel camera that I can kit out with three small primes and not cost a mint. I looked at the A6000/A6300 and while very whizzy and nice (I am getting my daughter an A6000), it is very difficult to properly kit it out with a set of fast 35-50-85 (equivalent) primes. Sony just doesn't make those lenses.
The FF f2, 28mm (42mm equiv.) and f1.8, 55mm (83mm equiv.) make for an excellent and lightweight travel set up with the a6000 (a6300). A budget yet quite capable combo is one of the Sony`s with the three inexpensive Sigma's 19, 30, 60mm. Difficult to beat a used a6000 with the three Sigma primes in terms of IQ/$.
 

etrigan63

Active member
The FF f2, 28mm (42mm equiv.) and f1.8, 55mm (83mm equiv.) make for an excellent and lightweight travel set up with the a6000 (a6300). A budget yet quite capable combo is one of the Sony`s with the three inexpensive Sigma's 19, 30, 60mm. Difficult to beat a used a6000 with the three Sigma primes in terms of IQ/$.
Never been very keen on the Sigma E-mount lenses as they appear to be "me too" lenses. Again, there are no focal lengths that map properly. With Oly, I can kit out a 17-25-45 combo or if i really want spread things out a bit 12-25-75 or 12-17-25 if I want to keep it wide.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Well, I don't buy cameras based on firmware upgrades. I would have never counted on Olympus on doing so, but looks like Fuji started to get them into the update train which is great- but still.

I don't care about video either. But I do care about laggy EVF, somewhat OK overall speed/response of operation, the EVF that was turning LCD->EVF->LCD.

Continuous AF seems odd also, though thankfully I do not care too much about it. A little bit.

- Ricardo
I only can say that when I used the PenF at the promotional event, I could not notice a laggy EVF. And conditions were rather bad as this was in a pretty dark environment, where ragtime normally is high.

I care about AF-C, but I am positive that Olympus will update the FW - mind you this is a new sensor and they just have to optimize the AF algorithms. But I quite agree they should have done this before product launch.

- - - Updated - - -

Neither do I, however since the trend is leaning toward introducing new features with firmware updates (THANK YOU FUJI!), it is possible that Olympus upper management (at least in the camera division) may have to pressured to get the product launched before it was fully baked. Lord knows the software industry has operated like this for decades.

Again, my goal is to use this as a walkabout/street/travel camera that I can kit out with three small primes and not cost a mint. I looked at the A6000/A6300 and while very whizzy and nice (I am getting my daughter an A6000), it is very difficult to properly kit it out with a set of fast 35-50-85 (equivalent) primes. Sony just doesn't make those lenses.
Unfortunately we see this SW upgrade trend now even in camera industry :-(

I do agree, if Sony had the lenses you mention for the A6300, this would be my camera of choice. But unfortunately the don't.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Never been very keen on the Sigma E-mount lenses as they appear to be "me too" lenses. Again, there are no focal lengths that map properly. With Oly, I can kit out a 17-25-45 combo or if i really want spread things out a bit 12-25-75 or 12-17-25 if I want to keep it wide.
I also have never been keen on Sigma E-mount glass. And all together the Olympus m43 primes are lot smaller than comparable APSC lenses, with exceptions optical quality for very good price - another reason I am staying with m43.

If I really want/need more resolution and am willing to carry the weight, my D810 with several Nikkor lenses (including 24-120 and 2.8/70-200) does the job just exceptionally.

Means when I want light and small m43 is the chice, otherwise FF Nikon ;)
 
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etrigan63

Active member
I only can say that when I used the PenF at the promotional event, I could not notice a laggy EVF. And conditions were rather bad as this was in a pretty dark environment, where ragtime normally is high.

I care about AF-C, but I am positive that Olympus will update the FW - mind you this is a new sensor and they just have to optimize the AF algorithms. But I quite agree they should have done this before product launch.
I too am wondering what possessed Chris and Jordan to use a brand new lens (aimed squarely at the EM-1) on the Pen-F. It is likely that the lens firmware is expecting PDAF signals from the body to narrow the field down and CDAF to finish the job. The Pen F being CDAF only, has to hunt especially with a lens that it is not optimized for.

Admittedly, the Leica SL is CDAF only as well, but the focusing mechanism in the SL lenses is aware of this and is engineered to this. This is where purity of design comes into play. Leica's mirrorless cameras are very consistent in design. Oly is not quite as disciplined with PDAF models (4/3), CDAF models (m4/3) and hybrid PDAF/CDAF models (m4/3). The fact that the Sony A7rII plays so well with adapted Canon EF lenses is a tribute to the engineering efforts by Sony and their recognizing this as a market opportunity.
 

Annna T

Active member
I too am wondering what possessed Chris and Jordan to use a brand new lens (aimed squarely at the EM-1) on the Pen-F. It is likely that the lens firmware is expecting PDAF signals from the body to narrow the field down and CDAF to finish the job. The Pen F being CDAF only, has to hunt especially with a lens that it is not optimized for.

Admittedly, the Leica SL is CDAF only as well, but the focusing mechanism in the SL lenses is aware of this and is engineered to this. This is where purity of design comes into play. Leica's mirrorless cameras are very consistent in design. Oly is not quite as disciplined with PDAF models (4/3), CDAF models (m4/3) and hybrid PDAF/CDAF models (m4/3). The fact that the Sony A7rII plays so well with adapted Canon EF lenses is a tribute to the engineering efforts by Sony and their recognizing this as a market opportunity.
The E-M5s aren't PDAF, but they are able to use the 45-150mm plus 1.4 extender without any problem. Focusing is usually very fast and rarely hunt if you know where to point to focus (I have that old habit of focus and reframe). I'm mainly using SAF however.
 

etrigan63

Active member
The E-M5s aren't PDAF, but they are able to use the 45-150mm plus 1.4 extender without any problem. Focusing is usually very fast and rarely hunt if you know where to point to focus (I have that old habit of focus and reframe). I'm mainly using SAF however.
Anna,
I am aware the the EM-5's are CDAF only. What I was going on about was the decision by Chris & Jordan (The Camera Store) to field test the Pen F with the new 300mm Pro lens which is aimed squarely at EM-1 users. It is highly likely that neither lens nor camera had their firmware optimized for each other. Probably because Olympus management wouldn't think anyone would be crazy enough to pair those two. Leave it to the Crazy Canucks to buck convention.
 

marlof

Member
There seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding going on. The latest comment from TCS shows their camera was not final, but they didn't know that.

Chris and I are always as transparent and accurate as possible when it comes to testing products for TCSTV. If we are ever looking at a pre-production camera, we will mention that during the episode. Recent examples of this include the Sony A6300 and Fuji X-Pro 2 episodes. For this reason, when Olympus approached us with the new Pen-F unit, we specifically requested that it was a production unit that the user at home would have access to. Olympus assured us that they had a production, reviewable copy of the Pen-F, so we told them to ship us the camera which is featured in this episode. After the episode was posted, Olympus contacted us to state that the camera we tested was indeed not final firmware. This apparently led to our issues with the continuous AF performance. This was their mistake, as we requested and were assured a production-level camera with final firmware. The good news is that Olympus says some of the issues we found are resolved in their final firmware. We are excited to retest this camera when it is available in a final production version. If the issues are addressed, it will be a much more capable camera than one we tested (and enjoyed) here. Thank you for continuing to support TCSTV with your views, comments and shares. We'll do our best to bring you the consistent, reliable tests you've come to expect from Chris and I. Jordan @ TCSTV
We'll have to wait for the reports on full production cameras to really judge what this can do. That said, I wouldn't expect an Olympus mFT camera to be really good at CAF (and yes, I do have an EM1) or as good at video as a Panasonic camera.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Anna,
I am aware the the EM-5's are CDAF only. What I was going on about was the decision by Chris & Jordan (The Camera Store) to field test the Pen F with the new 300mm Pro lens which is aimed squarely at EM-1 users. It is highly likely that neither lens nor camera had their firmware optimized for each other. Probably because Olympus management wouldn't think anyone would be crazy enough to pair those two. Leave it to the Crazy Canucks to buck convention.
Unfortunately I must let you know that also the PenF presentation in Vienna was together with the 4/300. And I really liked this combo form handling - without any grip. And AF was snappy and great, but I did not use AFC.
 

etrigan63

Active member
Unfortunately I must let you know that also the PenF presentation in Vienna was together with the 4/300. And I really liked this combo form handling - without any grip. And AF was snappy and great, but I did not use AFC.
Which basically echoes the history of m4/3 which was originally aimed at soccer moms looking to upgrade from P&S cameras but did not want bulky DSLRs and ended up as backup/street/walkabout cameras for some and primary cameras for others. Predicting the whims of the market is an art, not a science.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Which basically echoes the history of m4/3 which was originally aimed at soccer moms looking to upgrade from P&S cameras but did not want bulky DSLRs and ended up as backup/street/walkabout cameras for some and primary cameras for others. Predicting the whims of the market is an art, not a science.
Well, I do not care to be in the same camp as soccer moms, as long as the camera suits my needs :D

I only can reiterate that I really liked shooting this limited time with the PenF and even with the 4/300 mounted it was great to handle although I am pretty sure this combo was never the design concept for the PenF.

I have not personally tried it but I would predict with the PenF grip mounted it would even perfectly harmonize with the 2.8/40-150, which is bulkier as the 4/300. Which tells another story about how great and handsome the 4/300 is BTW.

I am still kind of hooked :cool:
 

raist3d

Well-known member
So yes, CameraStore got pre-release firmware.

Will be very interesting to see what they say once they get a production camera.

- Ricardo

PS: Everyone saying "Software is now getting updated/that's the trend" and then considering buying the camera based on that, I say you are kinda nuts :) $1,200 USD is too much to pay in my book for a may-be.
 

biglouis

Well-known member
What I want to know is when Olympus are going to come out with the digital Olympus XA.

It must be a capsule camera with a small add on flash.

LouisB
 
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