GH1 has square mode!

[Diane B]

I do shoot in RAW and I do find it helpful sometimes to 'see' in b & w (as I do with my 5D occasionally), but expect to get a 'neutral' color file and process my own b & w from the RAW file.

When we are discussing formats, I hadn't tried it, but just did in 16:9--and the RAW is cropped and the EXIF shows that in LR (4000 x 2250). As I understood it, the GH1 has the larger sensor so that the size of the shot will be, size wise, the same as the 4000 x 3000--IOW--I assume then that it will be same overall--but wouldn't think it would be 4000 by 4000--or am I wrong here??

Diane

If you're shooting in raw format, the color is still there even when you've got the camera set to B&W mode. You get to view B&W in the camera to check for tonal mergers etc. -- but if you later decide a color image would have been better, you can re-process the raw file as color instead.

(Adobe Lightroom, which is what I use for managing raw files, doesn't even recognize the G1's B&W-mode flag -- it displays the images as color unless you explicitly change them to grayscale.)

Another advantage to raw format for B&W shooting is that you can post-apply the same kinds of effects you'd normally get with a filter over the lens: If you want green foliage to look brighter, you can boost the greens, or cut back the blue to make clouds stand out more (same as using a yellow filter) etc. I've recently discovered that this technique also can be used to make high-ISO B&W images appear less noisy; by tweaking the individual color controls, you often can find an optimum setting that minimizes overall noise.

 

[Riley]

you can see by the 4 available formats for GH1 in max size
• 4000 x 3000 (4:3)
• 4128 x 2752 (3:2)
• 4352 x 2448 (16:9)
• 2992 x 2992 (1:1)

non of them are 4000 high. The GH1 sensor is a 10x7 format, so it can only give you an image limited to its height. For some reason thats slightly less than the 3000 height at 2992 pixels high. So for 1x1 it has to be 2992x2992

 

[Diane B]

you can see by the 4 available formats for GH1 in max size
• 4000 x 3000 (4:3)
• 4128 x 2752 (3:2)
• 4352 x 2448 (16:9)
• 2992 x 2992 (1:1)

non of them are 4000 high. The GH1 sensor is a 10x7 format, so it can only give you an image limited to its height. For some reason thats slightly less than the 3000 height at 2992 pixels high. So for 1x1 it has to be 2992x2992

Ah, thanks Riley. I don't think I've seen this--or glossed over it--just absorbing the info that the sensor was larger, etc. (since I'm not interested in buying the GH1) So--the 1 x 1 is basically the same as if I crop it myself. The pro to this, I guess, would be that you could compose with 1 x 1 in mind--and still, no one seems sure about the metering from what I read above.

Diane

 

[Riley]

welcome Diane
just another curious aspect, at no point do you use all the available pixels

 

[Terry]

This setup was started by Panasonic a couple of years ago on their some of their P&S cameras. The sensor is a bit larger and better utilizes the image circle of the lens.

Here is a diagram of what is going on. This is for a different camera so the pixel dimensions are different but the concept is exactly the same.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=28694696

 

[Ranger 9]

I recall reading that on almost any digital camera, not all the sensor pixels are used for imaging; some are reserved for measurements used in processing, such as dark current (amount of signal present in an element not exposed to light.)

 

[Riley]

what is of concern though Ranger, is the image are size for each format, which this diagram attributed to Bjorn Utpott describes

 

[Jonas]

If you're shooting in raw format, the color is still there even when you've got the camera set to B&W mode. You get to view B&W in the camera to check for tonal mergers etc. -- but if you later decide a color image would have been better, you can re-process the raw file as color instead.

All that is so true, and also well known. What I wonder after having discussed the square format in GH1 is if there is any square raw at all. When checking what LX3 (also having a "variable sensor") does it seems to me as raw format is available as 4:3 only.

That is what I read from specifications, I don't have any LX3 and can't check that for myself. Maybe I should download the manual. Anyway, is there anyone knowing what the GH1 will do. Are the different crops of the total sensor only for JPG outputs? If so I hope we can agree the feature is very much a gimmick only. OTOH it would be very cool if we get raw format files according to the different formats.

regards, /Jonas

EDIT: I now see I missed the second page of the thread. Hmm. I'm still curious about the GH1 raw 1:1 format.

 

[Terry]

All that is so true, and also well known. What I wonder after having discussed the square format in GH1 is if there is any square raw at all. When checking what LX3 (also having a "variable sensor") does it seems to me as raw format is available as 4:3 only.

That is what I read from specifications, I don't have any LX3 and can't check that for myself. Maybe I should download the manual. Anyway, is there anyone knowing what the GH1 will do. Are the different crops of the total sensor only for JPG outputs? If so I hope we can agree the feature is very much a gimmick only. OTOH it would be very cool if we get raw format files according to the different formats.

regards, /Jonas

EDIT: I now see I missed the second page of the thread. Hmm. I'm still curious about the GH1 raw 1:1 format.

If you look at the owners manual for an LX3 you will see a chart at the back that shows the files sizes for each aspect ratio and file type (RAW/JPEG + Compression). Panny is not one to just put gimmicks into cameras. There is also a way in the menus to change the aspect ratio of a shot. So, it seems like the whole sensor records and then you can change what part of it you want to use.

 

[Amin]

For all intents and purposes, the square format on this camera is a cropped version of the 4:3 aspect ratio. It does not maintain the diagonal angle of view the way 16:9, 3:2, and 4:3 do. It will show less vignetting with cine lenses just as one would see by cropping the sides off a 4:3 shot.

 

[Jonas]

If you look at the owners manual for an LX3 you will see a chart at the back that shows the files sizes for each aspect ratio and file type (RAW/JPEG + Compression). Panny is not one to just put gimmicks into cameras. There is also a way in the menus to change the aspect ratio of a shot. So, it seems like the whole sensor records and then you can change what part of it you want to use.

So I should have read the manual rather than just trusted third party specification lists then...

Ah, if that is how it will work it is more interesting than I could think of at the start of this thread.

Thank you for clarifying, /Jonas

 

[Diane B]

I guess I should have also.....

altho' to this point, with the G1, I've shot totally in 4:3 and cropped to suit. I tried the 16:9 this afternoon just to see if it cropped for RAW (does), but I don't know if I would choose to shoot in another format anyhow. Though I'm a longtime DSLR shooter with 3:2, I often cropped (and used my gridded screen to compose) to 4:3 anyhow.

Diane

So I should have read the manual rather than just trusted third party specification lists then...

Ah, if that is how it will work it is more interesting than I could think of at the start of this thread.

Thank you for clarifying, /Jonas

 

[Ranger 9]

All that is so true, and also well known.

Golly, I'm so sorry. Please excuse me. I promise I'll check with you before ever posting any information ever again.

 

[Y.B.Hudson III]

Ranger 9

Re: GH1 has square mode!
Quote:
Golly, I'm so sorry. Please excuse me. I promise I'll check with you before ever posting any information ever again. .

Thanks, Ranger...eye didn't no that...but then mY b00k c@se isn't as b¡G as Jon@s'

concerning the Square format...it would be of interest if it used the total sensor @ 4000 pixs, otherwise it's just idiotz deLite...

 

[Jonas]

Golly, I'm so sorry. Please excuse me. I promise I'll check with you before ever posting any information ever again.

Lol. No, I think I'm sorry for my poor choice of words.

 

[Jonas]

Thanks, Ranger...eye didn't no that...but then mY b00k c@se isn't as b¡G as Jon@s'

concerning the Square format...it would be of interest if it used the total sensor @ 4000 pixs, otherwise it's just idiotz deLite...

Y.B.Hudson III, this is the second time you are commenting that bookcase. I wonder what the problem is? Did I offend you to at some instance?