25/F0.95 party...

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Here's an interesting head to head...
-Soligor 'ITV'
-Carl Meyer 'Moviar'
-Angenieux 'Type M1'

I could swear the design of the Soligar=C.Meyer=Navitar

Let the boring stuff begin! Draw your own conclusions... 16:9/jpg/awb:

Carl Meyer
F0.95

F1.2

F1.4

F2.0

 

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Soligor
F0.95

F1.2
[/img]http://images47.fotki.com/v1475/photos/5/148595/7530351/P1140397-vi.jpg[/img]
F1.4

F2.0

 

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Angenieux
F0.95

F1.2

F1.4

F2.0

 

[apicius9]

Very nice, thanks! I just wish I hadn't forgotten my glasses at home today... Is that Meyer sharper than the other two or does it just have a different DOF (or should I not say anything without my glasses )? These are all uncropped, right?

You are ahead of me again, I wanted to do a similar comparison with the Angenieux M1, the Angenieux B&H, and the Zeika. The semester ends this Friday, after that I have more patience and time again, I hope

Stefan

 

[milapse]

Very nice, thanks! I just wish I hadn't forgotten my glasses at home today... Is that Meyer sharper than the other two or does it just have a different DOF (or should I not say anything without my glasses )? These are all uncropped, right?

You are ahead of me again, I wanted to do a similar comparison with the Angenieux M1, the Angenieux B&H, and the Zeika. The semester ends this Friday, after that I have more patience and time again, I hope

Stefan

Uncropped @ 16:9..

You can check out the full res here. (go to the larger view->look for 'get original uploaded' at the bottom)

I'm still trying to flush my own observations out of the test...

I want to see the Zeika!

 

[Vivek]

I believe the Soligor, (Carl-Meyer- not a original maker), Navitar Version I, etc badged lenses are clones of the Angenieux Type M1 25/0.95 (even down to the mechanics).

The Navitar Version I is a tad sharper and is very bright. Remarkable for a lens of that tiny package.

Navitar Version II projects a flatter field. Very sharp as well.

 

[milapse]

I believe the Soligor, (Carl-Meyer- not a original maker), Navitar Version I, etc badged lenses are clones of the Angenieux Type M1 25/0.95 (even down to the mechanics).

hmmm, but the blades are different on mine... The M1 has 6 and the Soligor has 8?? The M1 also has such a different image character?

 

[Vivek]

I can't see any differences (at least the wide open images you show here).

 

[milapse]

I can't see any differences (at least the wide open images you show here).

Really? Here's some crops (both @ F0.95). I think they are different animals.

Angenieux

Sort of a 'milky' character not quite as sharp as the Soligor but 'inviting' if you will

Soligor

Sharper and more contrast but sort of 'clinical' to my eye

 

[Vivek]

milapse, I still can't see anything dramatically different.

I shot with the SOM-Berthiot and the Navitar Version I earlier. I could see quite a big difference (no pics from it to show now. They look terrible next to SOM's).

Here are 2 from the Berthiot, wide open at ISO100.

The SOM-Berthiot is quite distinct from the others I have/use in terms of micro contrast (difficult to show it here in small pics).

 

[milapse]

I'd love to see some side by sides of your collection if you get the chance! :thumbup:

I like the look of the Bertoit! I've tried a bunch of Som primes and not been so 'enamored' (the bokeh is wonderful but there was something so so)... Your 0.95 looks exceptional though. Where on earth did you find it and was it tough to modify?

 

[Vivek]

Will do.

The first sample (Sopelem) was bought for 1 Euro (ebay). Broken 3 bladed iris and fixed focus weighing nearly a kilo. Not usable. I will do a total reconstruct some day.

The second cost a lot more and was a local purchase. This sample was originally from Phillips labs. Have not modified it yet (not difficult) and am using it only at close focus distances. The cardboard box it came with is also very beautiful.

 

[Vivek]

SOM-Berthiot 25/0.95 on a Panasonic G1 at f/0.95

Navitar version I 25/0.95 on a Panasonic G1 at f/0.95

Both (though magnifications are slightly different) were captured under identical lighting conditions and processed exactly the same way.

 

[milapse]

Very interesting! Thanks.

You have to hand it to Som for the bokeh... All the Som Berthiot lenses I've played with produce really nice backdrops.

 

[Vivek]

Navitar Version II (Senko, etc) whole frame @f/0.95, ISO400, 1/20s. This lens does not have the simple barrel distortion of the Navitar Version I, slightly less bright and has a slight mustache distortion at longer distances.

I have another that has f/0.85 engraved instead of f/0.95 but looks/behaves identically to the Navitar II. Both I would rate the aperture at f/1.1 than f/0.95 or the very optimistic f/0.85.

The SOM-Berthiot 25/0.95 is very special. According to my count, it has at least one aspherical (benefits of the 1 Euro lens and the process of reconstruction)element if not two.

 

[Vivek]

One more from the SOM-Berthiot. A buttercup.

 

[milapse]

Very interesting! Is this the lens?

 

[Vivek]

Yes. Only my sample stayed in a video department most of its life and comes with a front metal cap and the original box.

The SOPELEM version looks quite different though it has identical optics.

 

[valtof]

Hi,

I've tested an Angénieux f:0.95/25mm in a shop in Paris that I'd like to buy.
However I still have some kind of hesitation that people here might help me to get rid of.

When I tested the lens, the focus ring was so stiff that it was almost unusable, which is not surprising for a lens that hasn't been used for years.
The seller wants 500 € for it (a good price, what do you think?) and will give it a little service (lubrification essentially) before I decide to buy it.

In the meanwhile, I've bought another fast 25mm, a silver f:1.4 SOM Berthiot (see attachments), mainly because it was very cheap in my opinion (50€) and also because it was the occasion to make some other tests and comparisons.
This lens is in the same state than the Angy, that is very clean but with a very stiff focus ring which leads to very painful manipulation.
The image quality is quite good even if the barrel distortion is quite pronounced. The image circle seems a bit larger than the Angénieux.
I don't know if this Berthiot has good reputation. Any experience from all of you is welcome.

So here are my conclusions and questions. It seems that many fast c-mount 25mm have this in common :

- Not completely covering the m4/3 sensor (we all know that and that's not the biggest problem) ;
- A focus ring placed at the very bottom of the lens which leads to painful focusing, especially when it's a bit stiff. Did somebody here experiment a really smooth focus ring ? Does it become really usable ?
- Quite pronounced barrel distortion for such a focal lenght, why ?
- Quite important quality fall between wide open and 1 stop closed (I mean compared, for example, to a Leica 50lux which is as pleasant at f:1.4 than f:2 with a different rendering)

By the way, there's a silver Berthiot f.095/25mm to sell on eBay these days, but of a different type than the black one posted by Vivek. Is it the same type, quality? And does somebody know how much it could reach compared to the Angy?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=190307925639

OK, any comment and advice are welcome to make up my mind...
cheers

.

 

[Vivek]

The cine lens linked is most likely to be similar (if not the same) as the other Cinors mentioned.

Stiff focusing ring on any old Angenieux is major pain to get corrected. It calls for professional (experienced/specialized in Angenieux) repair (personal experience).

Hope this helps.