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E-P1 is out....

barjohn

New member
In addition to the lack of a viewfinder having the LCD be only 230K pixels means manual focus will be sharp as mud after magnification.

I am disappointed that with all the extra time Pentax took they didn't produce a better camera.
 

jonoslack

Active member
In addition to the lack of a viewfinder having the LCD be only 230K pixels means manual focus will be sharp as mud after magnification.

I am disappointed that with all the extra time Pentax took they didn't produce a better camera.
Hmm - of course, a high resolution LCD is better - but I don't think it'll be bad for manual focus, the magnification won't reduce the number of pixels, (will it?) it'll just be a case of zooming in with the same number of pixels.

I also feel that Pentax might be a little peeeved to be dissed for producing the camera :ROTFL:
 

nostatic

New member
In addition to the lack of a viewfinder having the LCD be only 230K pixels means manual focus will be sharp as mud after magnification.

I am disappointed that with all the extra time Pentax took they didn't produce a better camera.
You mean Olympus, right? The K-7 actually has a 900K+ display. Along with a 100% OVF.

In all seriousness the EP1 looks nice, and it would be interesting so compare it side-to-side with my DLux4. But the DLux4 is barely pocketable, and the EP1 with anything other than a pancake is not pocketable. The question then becomes if it won't go in your pocket, how much are you willing to give up for the smaller size?
 

jonoslack

Active member
You mean Olympus, right? The K-7 actually has a 900K+ display. Along with a 100% OVF.

In all seriousness the EP1 looks nice, and it would be interesting so compare it side-to-side with my DLux4. But the DLux4 is barely pocketable, and the EP1 with anything other than a pancake is not pocketable. The question then becomes if it won't go in your pocket, how much are you willing to give up for the smaller size?
I think it all hinges around the size of your pocket :)
Still, I agree, part of me says that all this 'small camera' stuff is a load of old cobblers, and one may as well just settle for an M8 (or an Olympus E620 . . or a nice Pentax K7) and forget about pocketable.

I've had many many small cameras (the dlux4 being the latest in the line) none of them gets used much . . . not sure that this will be an exception.
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
No OVF (or tilting screen to make up for it) and a screen with the same resolution as my original 5D's (useless outdoors for anything and useless for judging focus), an AF system that is nowhere near that of the panasonic according to DPReview and on par with current SLR live view focusing? No internal flash (pocket cameras get used indoors! no fast primes either).

Think I'll pass and I've been waiting years for this....
 
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btrancho

New member
Bob--I wondered when I saw that you said $229 for the f/1.7--but just having read the dcresource article, I saw that it is still the F/2.8 that was rumored.

My question is--what do you gain once you take off the 17? Not pocketable, no EVF, etc. Glad I bought the G1--and expect, unless the next iteration has a VF--that I will buy the GH1--or 2 or whatever, for my next m4/3rds body. I like its looks though *smile*--but pretty is as pretty does LOL.

Diane
Whoops, my error - I meant the Oly 17/2.8.

I agree with you Diane, once the 17 is off the camera it doesn't seem to offer many advantages to me. Probably for the best... I'll wait until the smaller Panny in the fall or version 2 of the E-P1 and save my pennies in the meanwhile. (Though the 20/1.7 is very tempting...)
 

nostatic

New member
I think it all hinges around the size of your pocket :)
Still, I agree, part of me says that all this 'small camera' stuff is a load of old cobblers, and one may as well just settle for an M8 (or an Olympus E620 . . or a nice Pentax K7) and forget about pocketable.

I've had many many small cameras (the dlux4 being the latest in the line) none of them gets used much . . . not sure that this will be an exception.
oh sure, brag about your pocket size :D

I find that I use my DLux4 a lot these days. While it doesn't fit in a pocket, it does fit in a very small case that has a shoulder strap. It can get tossed in a backpack or just thrown over my shoulder. Lots of situations where I will grab that over the dSLR...like riding a bicycle (it'll fit easily in a fanny pack).

I think the EP1 could see the same type of use, but only with a pancake. With a zoom it really is just a smaller, lighter dSLR (with arguably lower iq than APS-C). For some that is a big deal - eg my g/f vastly prefers her G1 to my Pentax. It just fits her hand better and is a lot less weight to haul around. But she does have to haul it around - in a camera bag with her extra lens.

So this class of camera is either a brilliant compromise or a permanent resident in no-man's land. Depends on the user.
 

Lars

Active member
Very cute. A few thing I would have liked to see:
- A tiny built in flash. External flash means bringing a camera bag, there goes portability.
- Better manual focusing and viewfinder. Anyone try to hold a camera still with both arms extended? Negates what IS brings. An eye level finder means supporting the camera with your forehead as well as arms, I wouldn't be surprised it you lose 2-3 stops in acceptable shutter time when holding the camera with extended arms. This is not a good idea.
 

Diane B

New member
eg my g/f vastly prefers her G1 to my Pentax. It just fits her hand better and is a lot less weight to haul around. But she does have to haul it around - in a camera bag with her extra lens.

So this class of camera is either a brilliant compromise or a permanent resident in no-man's land. Depends on the user.
She could stick it in her smallish handbag rather than haul an extra camera bag--I do that occasionally--and even stick in a small MF lens.

I agree--its either a brilliant compromise or a permanent resident in no man's land. I know there are some that this is perfect for--not me however and I know how I feel about shooting handheld with an LCD (though the G1 is far better because of the tiltable LCD) from the G9. I just don't end up carrying a 'small' camera without a VF.

I've gone from my 5D to a G9 to a 400D--none right until the G1 which can be extraordinary flexible--go with one MF small fast lens, the quite smallish and quite good kit zoom--or go full bore with WAZ, etc---which is still WAY lighter/smaller than same kit for my 5D (I just packed both for a trip--and wonder if I should just leave the 5D at home, but won't this time--the 12-24 may make it worthwhile.

Diane
 
M

mattyUK

Guest
Let's wait for Pana :))))

Hiya, I was previously registered with totallynatural user name but my email got spammed out so deleted it.

I currently use a D300 and GX100 and due to arthritis am looking at a smaller lighter system that I can carry everywhere. The EP-1 (pre-release) looked ideal, until I read about of slow (admittedly pre-production dpreview sample) AF and lack of EVF. For me an EVF is crucial especially (hence purchasing GX100) in bright sunlight and if there are no DOF markings on lenses for MF. My eyesight is also not too hot and I do not like using LCD's even good ones tend to wash out.
Is this panasonic picture for real? If so is there a release date? If it had the G1's contrast detect system and a variation of its EVF as shown mounted on hotshoe this would fulfill my requirements for replacing my d300 & GX100. I also assume the bit to the left of the EVF is a pop up flash.
I love the EP-1 design but think Oly unfortunately missed the mark by not making an EVF for it.
 

Streetshooter

Subscriber Member
Seems to me with the 17mm and finder, it's useful.
I'm a VF shooter so the camera appeals to me but I
still will hold on to the DP1.
With that zoomie...and the screen, there's
better cameras out there.....
Now it's about IQ.......we'll see soon enough....
shooter
 

hot

Active member
@ mattyUK

I think "Panasonic's camera" is only a so-we-wish-it ... but who knows ? ? ? ;-)
 
G

GH1next?

Guest
When is this Panasonic version due out?

Got any specs you can share?

Like will it have Inbody image stabilization or is panasonic sticking with O.I.S. glass?


Let's wait for Pana :))))

 
R

robertasumendi

Guest
Just curious, does no one here with a G1 use the LCD to manual focus? I do it all the time... not at "arm's length" but a foot or so away. It's super-useful! Though I have to say the articulation is a big part of that.

E-P1 seems like a cool camera, but pity about the slow, night-blind AF. The whole point of this form factor is to ditch the VF, so I don't really understand the whinging there.... but the AF is not something to mess up on any camera, regardless of the size.

I think the best news is the dpreview interview w/Olympus saying they're open to doing more primes sooner than later based on market demand.... Let's start a campaign for the 17mm 1.4 and the 25mm 0.95 :)
 
M

mattyUK

Guest
@ mattyUK

I think "Panasonic's camera" is only a so-we-wish-it ... but who knows ? ? ? ;-)
I just had a scout around and there stuff about panasonic producing a competitor (on m4/3 rumours) due in sep/oct (unsurprising) but who knows?...:confused: Hopefully pany will deliver. Still bit gutted about EP-1, feels a bit like an anti-climax, I was sure an EVF would be announced at launch but alas not. :(

Robert - I wholeheartedly agree that point if it is to be small with no built in VF, however having the option for an hotshoe mounted EVF would be great for those like me whose eyesight is a bit ropey (I find data on GX100 EVF easier to see than on its LCD).

Fingers crossed a pany materialises in near future and looks as goods as this pic, though I would be a bit worried about lack of visible manual controls and 'slippery design', no rubber grip (i'm one of the 'lucky few' to get really sweaty hands, not ideal with slippery cams, nightmare with my iphone :D) ...would love ricoh Gx/GRD style body scaled up with m4/3 sensor. Not sure I can wait that long though :D
 
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R

Ranger 9

Guest
So this class of camera is either a brilliant compromise or a permanent resident in no-man's land. Depends on the user.
In other words, it really IS a true successor to the Pen F series!

Back when I had a Pen FT, I wanted so much to love it... it was so cool, such a great concept. But it wasn't much more versatile than cameras that were a lot more compact, and wasn't really much more compact than cameras that were a lot more versatile. And there was no getting around that an 18x24mm negative had significantly less image quality than a 24x36mm negative.

Then again, there were (and are) people for whom it was just perfect, and who never really found anything that completely replaced it.

So here we are again, with the Eepy One.

As I posted in the now-obsolete leak thread, it looks to me as if the sweet spot right now is the version with the 17mm lens and the optical finder.

This would give you less-slow autofocus (compared to the zoom) and a finder you can use in bright light. In dimmer light you'd also have the option of using the LCD, which would be handy for close-ups etc.

(Better yet, when Pana's 20/1.7 finally appears, you can throw the 17 in a drawer and put the 20 on your Eepy One instead. I'm guessing the optical finder won't be any less inaccurate for framing 20mm shots than it will for 17mm shots. And with ISO 6400, in-body stabilization, and an f/1.7 maximum aperture, you'd have a pretty formidable little low-light machine.)

I love to imagine doing a grand tour of Europe with nothing but the Eepy One with 17mm lens and my gorgeous supermodel girlfriend (hey, if you're going to fantasize, go all the way with it)... grabbing brilliant casual shots of her framed through the optical finder, then pulling her into romantically-lit alleyways to line up beautifully-composed shots in front of charming architectural details on the LCD. It really is the ideal camera for just such an imaginary lifestyle.

On the other hand, the zoom option is too mundane to make a lot of sense. People who want a small, slow-focusing camera with a slow zoom lens and an LCD-only finder have lots of other choices from the compact-camera realm, most of them much less expensive and even more compact. (But of course this is the version that most casual consumers will buy. I mean, you've gotta have a zoom, don't you?)

As for the small but dedicated band of adventurers who enjoy using the weird, wild array of manual-focus lenses accessible via adapters... well, squinting at the LCD at arm's length while trying to focus a Macro Switar will pall quickly, and they'll go back to the Panasonics.
 
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jonoslack

Active member
In other words, it really IS a true successor to the Pen F series!

Back when I had a Pen FT, I wanted so much to love it... it was so cool, such a great concept. But it wasn't much more versatile than cameras that were a lot more compact, and wasn't really much more compact than cameras that were a lot more versatile. And there was no getting around that an 18x24mm negative had significantly less image quality than a 24x36mm negative.
Beautifully put . .. but I don't think that the IQ issue is so relevant here (4/3 produces pretty decent images that can be printed big - and it seems that this will not disappoint here).

However. The pana LX3 is more compact, the G1 is more versatile . . . and the E620 even has an optical viewfinder . . . and then there is the new Pentax!

It really isn't so much of a no-brainer as it seemed at first.
 
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