What to do?

[Cindy Flood]

HI Helen
I can't speak for CAM, but I'm definitely a Wous. It's a long proven fact. However, assuming I do choose a film camera (which, of course, as I'm a Wous is rather unlikely) it doesn't help me to decide whether to get an M4 . . . or an M7 (which seem to be the choices I've boiled it down to).

M4 or M7 Seem like two different animals. :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Lars]

Sticker shock??!? You wozzes try 8x10 Velvia at $10 a pop, plus $8 development. Kinda gives a whole new meaning to "make every shot count". But the view on the light table is truly priceless.

Speaking of which there used to be an annual 24-hour photo marathon in Stockholm - every contestant was given a 24-exposure roll, and a new theme was presented every hour.

 

[jonoslack]

M4 or M7 Seem like two different animals. :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Well, the logic is that if I want an exposure meter, then I may as well go all the way and get the M7 (which will be nicely compatable with the M8 I'm keeping). If I can do without the meter, then the M4 is a fairly obvious way to go.

Trouble is that there is this nice minty 0.58 M7 tickling my credit card.

Oh Dear - and it's all your fault:lecture:

 

[helenhill]

JONO-
Your last B&W M8 shot was DIVINE....
Where do you find those Clouds
soooo Beautiful
I wonder what that will look like w/Film

and BEWARE of Madame Flood /Cindy
She will have You shooting Medium Format sooooon....:ROTFL:

 

[Cindy Flood]

I would say that there is really something to be said for the M7 and the compatibility with the M8. I have always used my M8 side by side with an M that worked backwards to the M8. My mind always seemed to be able to remember which one was going which way :shocked:, but having them behave the same would make for one less thing to focus on.
I personally love M5 (I've had 3 over the years) and my newest, M4P. M5--you either love it or hate it. It doesn't just fit in your hand.:ROTFL:

 

[Cindy Flood]

JONO-
Your last B&W M8 shot was DIVINE....
Where do you find those Clouds
soooo Beautiful
I wonder what that will look like w/Film

and BEWARE of Madame Flood /Cindy
She will have You shooting Medium Format sooooon....:ROTFL:

:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL: Jono has led me down the path once or twice himself.:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[emmawest72]

ah, sweet!!!

film and i aren't getting along right now -- but i'm afraid that has more to do with me than it.... after being charged 28€ (!) for C41 developing and prints, i've decided back to the kitchen sink. unfortunately, it left me with a bad taste in my mouth and i now have a hesitation i never did with digital -- is this shot really worth it? -- and, in the time i take to think about it, the shot is gone

i'm thinking i still need a crutch (i.e., dig camera) so i'll have a used M8 next week to help me make the transition. there is still nothing quite like the look of b/w film, i just need to get over my idiotic fear of wasting it.... and it would be grand to have you along for the ride!

Cam,

I see you are in Paris so may I recommend you go to Negatif + for your film developments ( blvd Lafayette - pls check exact address on google as I can't remember). They also have a very extensive website.

Good luck!

 

[jonoslack]

:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL: Jono has led me down the path once or twice himself.:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Moi? surely not?:ROTFL:
I don't fancy an M5, liking the smaller size

Helen, thank you for the compliment. I find the clouds . . . . in the sky (although, if I succumb to this M7, they may reappear in my bank balance!).
Guy made a concerted attempt to get me into MF last year . . . to no avail, I'm much to lazy to be fiddling about with the kit.

 

[Cindy Flood]

Moi? surely not?:ROTFL:
I don't fancy an M5, liking the smaller size

Helen, thank you for the compliment. I find the clouds . . . . in the sky (although, if I succumb to this M7, they may reappear in my bank balance!).
Guy made a concerted attempt to get me into MF last year . . . to no avail, I'm much to lazy to be fiddling about with the kit.

You could join Tim and I with our Rolleiflexes. No kit...just one small camera, a couple of rolls of film and a filter or two. You will already be set with the V700.

 

[emmawest72]

Looks like epson will be making good business selling v700 for the next few days...

 

[jlm]

i think that superclean 503/80mm hasselblad is still for sale...under $700. looks like a beauty

 

[helenhill]

i think that superclean 503/80mm hasselblad is still for sale...under $700. looks like a beauty

Jim , Whats the difference between the 503 & 500C
can you post a Pix or tell me where to Look Please ....
Cheers-H

 

[jlm]

i think he had it sold and the deal fell through. the pictures of the camera were compelling, to say the least.
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6057

not sure of the model differences
looks like kit is sniffing around...

jm

 

[jonoslack]

You could join Tim and I with our Rolleiflexes. No kit...just one small camera, a couple of rolls of film and a filter or two. You will already be set with the V700.

HI Cindy
really not me - really REALLY not. However, that 500 / 80 looks very lovely and tempting . . . . I'm just not serious enough :bugeyes::lecture::cussing::clap:

 

[fotografz]

Jim , Whats the difference between the 503 & 500C
can you post a Pix or tell me where to Look Please ....
Cheers-H

Helen, the differences between the 503CW and 500C:

Basically the same tactile shooting experience, however the 503 has a better focusing screen (Acute Mat), better mirror system (doesn't vignette the top portion viewing with certain lenses), and has a built-in TTL flash meter (no exposure meter ... just a flash meter).

The 503CW model you would want goes to ISO 3200 on the TTL flash meter dial on the left side of the camera. Older models only went to ISO 800 and are less desireable.

The 503CW is still in production, and is the camera sold with the CFV-II digital back made specifically for all of the Hasselblad V cameras.

 

[fotografz]

i think that superclean 503/80mm hasselblad is still for sale...under $700. looks like a beauty

Just for clarification: that camera is a 500CM, not a 503CW. It is also a black version (no chrome piping around the edges), but doesn't come with the matching black film back ... which are harder to find in good condition than the chrome versions.

Sequence of models (from memory, which can be faulty : -): 500C, 500CM, 501CM, 503CW.

"C" stands for Central shutter (or maybe Compur shutter, I can't remember exactly) ... but indicates the leaf type shutter inside the lens which flash sync's to 1/500th.

the 1000F, 2000F, and 200FE (plus others) types of Hasselbald cameras have the shutter in the camera, (the "F" indicates focal plane shutter) The focal plane cameras provide higher top shutter speeds of 1/1000 or 1/2000th but a slow top flash sync speed of 1/90th. The "E" in FE lenses stands for Electronic which utilizes electronic data bus contacts that feed info to the 200 series cameras for their internal exposure meters. These lenses tend to offer larger maximum apertures and include the famous 110/2F and FE lens.

All CF, CFi and CFE lenses can be used on a 200 series camera, but none of the F and FE lenses can be used on a 500 series camera which do not have a shutter in the camera.

I know, more info than you wanted ... :ROTFL:

 

[fotografz]

A few thoughts on keeping film as part of your creative options in the digital age.

Just like trying to compare B&W film with B&W digital, the expectations should be different and kept separate IMO. Film offers a purer shooting experience in a way because the processing part can't creep into the shooting part of the photographic experience. There is no LCD to constantly chimp, and films specific type of latitude deals with minor exposure errors.

In reality, cost factors boil down to the price of the film itself and proofing if any. Prints afterwards cost the same with film or digital. I only have my films developed without any proofs for a few dollars a roll and make my own contact sheets on a flatbed.

Scanning is something you are either dedicated to or not. I have always used two scanners ... currently an Epson V750 Pro and a dedicated film scanner. The Epson can do a respectable job with MF film, but in my experience is dismal for 35mm except when used to make contact sheets. 35mm samples from a flat bed can look okay if the image was shot in good light and was multi-scanned. But when the lighting gets challenging (and atmospheric as Helen puts it), then the flat beds start showing their inherent weaknesses compared to most desk-top dedicated film scanners.

It is difficult to evaluate this on the web using sub 1 meg sRGB images ... one has to see a comparison of the same neg. scanned by both types of scanners then printed ... even an 8"X10" will reveal the obvious visual differences.

This is not to knock those using a flatbed in any way. It may fit their needs, and to spend more would be pushing it financially for the amount of film they may shoot ... plus, they can send for a better scan for images they deem worthy of the cost.

However, someone shooting a Leica M and superb Leica lenses with all their resolving power, subtile charms and micro contrast, may not be all that thrilled with the results from a flat bed ... even one as good as the Epson V700/750. A used Minolta 5400 (not the 5400II which is better for color but worst for B&W) or Nikon dedicated scanner may be the better choice.

For those on a budget and aren't scanning all that many films but like to keep that option open creatively, there may be a dedicated 35mm scanner for you @ $239.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._OpticFilm_7300_35mm_Film.html#specifications

I have no idea if this scanner is any good or not, but the specs look decent (7200 dpi un-interpolated, and a 3.5 D Max) and the reviews seem to look pretty good.

Or this 3600 dpi optical resolution model for $270 (less a $50 rebate = $220.) that includes Digital Ice for color scans or C41 type B&W scans:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ge_PF3650U_Prime_Film_3650u_Film_Scanner.html

Again, I don't have a clue as to the "real" performance of these dedicated film scanners but would strongly suspect they are not made for any kind of volume and are more for the occasional scan, but at those incredibly low prices it may warrant further research. If anyone has any experience with these please add your comments.

 

[jonoslack]

Thank you Marc
I've read some remarks to the effect that the V700 is better than the V750 for film scans due to the coating on the V750?

Whatever, many thanks for your observations. I have a credit over here for a lens, and I think I'll put it against a V700, do some scans and see what I think. In the meantime I couldn't resist a mint 0.58 M7 for £1300 in the UK with 6 months warranty. I'll have a day to check the scanner out before finally committing. My 35 asph chrome 'cron will cover nearly all the cost of the M7.

If you prove to be right about the V700 and I'm having fun, then I'll be in the market for a better scanner (irritatingly I gave away a minolta 5400 a couple of years ago).

 

[fotografz]

Thank you Marc
I've read some remarks to the effect that the V700 is better than the V750 for film scans due to the coating on the V750?

Whatever, many thanks for your observations. I have a credit over here for a lens, and I think I'll put it against a V700, do some scans and see what I think. In the meantime I couldn't resist a mint 0.58 M7 for £1300 in the UK with 6 months warranty. I'll have a day to check the scanner out before finally committing. My 35 asph chrome 'cron will cover nearly all the cost of the M7.

If you prove to be right about the V700 and I'm having fun, then I'll be in the market for a better scanner (irritatingly I gave away a minolta 5400 a couple of years ago).

The glass coating on the two 700 series Epsons is different? Can you elaborate on that? I have read that the V700/750 had improved glass coating compared to the previous 4990, but nothing about the 2 700 Epsons.

My impression is that the V750 Pro is exactly the same scanner as the V700, but comes with the Fluid Mounting Tray, more powerful software ( Silverfast A16 verses Silverfast LE,) and the 750 comes with Monaco's scanner and printer profiling software.

 

[jonoslack]

The glass coating on the two 700 series Epsons is different? Can you elaborate on that? I have read that the V700/750 had improved glass coating compared to the previous 4990, but nothing about the 2 700 Epsons.

My impression is that the V750 Pro is exactly the same scanner as the V700, but comes with the Fluid Mounting Tray, more powerful software ( Silverfast A16 verses Silverfast LE,) and the 750 comes with Monaco's scanner and printer profiling software.

HI Marc:

The Epson Perfection V700 Photo scanner is aimed at the high end consumer market, whereas the V750 is targeted for the professional user.
The main difference between the two models is the V750 has an Anti-Reflection Optical Coating. This coating is applied to the CCD glass to eliminate or minimize the amount of reflections. Abnormal Ghost images are reduced.
The V750 includes the full version of SilverFast Ai 6 together with Monaco EZ Colour management solution.

Silverfast website

There has been some talk as to whether this coating has a deleterious effect when scanning 35mm film (but what do I know). I think it was Cindy who told me about this, maybe someone else knows more.