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What to do?

simonclivehughes

Active member
Okay, here's the quandary I'm in:

At this point, my photography is totally digital, and has been since around 2000. I love digital! Problem is, I still feel drawn to shooting film. Or more correctly perhaps, I really miss the feel of a Leica rangefinder body. I've had a couple of film Leica's over the years and there's something undefinable about holding and using one that I guess I still miss.

I know, I know, the obvious answer that many of you are thinking is "Get the M8". Well, I did that, I had two of them. And while they were nice and I do miss occasionally them, they just weren't everything I thought a digital M should be. But that's not really what I'm talking about.

My current craving revolves around having a smallish body with a 35 or 40 mm lens to be used almost exclusively for black and white work. I'm toying with the idea of picking up an older M body or possibly a new Bessa and an appropriate lens. That would take care of the camera side of the equation.

The other issue of course, is the development of the film. I'm absolutely not set up to do this myself anymore, nor do I really want to. So part of the feedback I'm looking for, if you may be in the same position as I am, is what do you do about getting your black-and-white film developed and scanned.

With the ever shrinking resources available for film-based photographers, I wonder whether this is really a viable option anymore. Is it relatively easy to get film developed with simple contact sheets these days? What about the type of scanning available "across the counter", does it really produce results that are good enough, or is scanning something I need to do myself? And if the answer to that is yes, what do you recommend for a scanner these days?

I've had film scanners before, but this was years ago, and I'm sure things have improved, and hopefully prices have come down. Frankly, if the cost of a good scanner is beyond a certain level, I'm just going to stick with digital.

The other option for me at this point is to wait for the DP2 to become available. I already have the DP1 and I find it a fabulous camera, especially for black-and-white work. And, while I love DP1's wide-angle, the DP2 promises the focal length that I'm interested in, as well as a better aperture range than the DP1 for more expressive compositions.

The DP2 also alleviates all of the above problems in regards to using film, and it will give me the immediacy that I've come to expect with digital.

Is anybody else out there having the same kinds of thoughts and questions?

Cheers,
 

johnastovall

Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
Why scan B&W film? Why not print it. Printing is one reason, I keep looking at 8x10 LF. Printing can be a simple contact print.

As for development all you really need is a tank and a changing bag.

If you want a scanner, look at the Epson 750. I got to use one a few weeks ago and it is outstanding. For 35mm film I have a Nikon 5000ED but have not set it up yet but it was a deal thad could not be passed by.
 

simonclivehughes

Active member
okay this is where I have my black and white megative film developed! this guy is great and I love that he puts the negs in pages etc,

http://mylab.com/

for positives I use www.Dr5.com
Thanks for that, but I'm in Canada and I sure don't want to deal with exporting and importing hassles!


As for development all you really need is a tank and a changing bag.

If you want a scanner, look at the Epson 750. I got to use one a few weeks ago and it is outstanding.
John,

Thanks for the tip on the scanner, I'll check it out. As for developing, I know it's simple (did it for many, many years) but I don't want to have to deal with chemicals any longer.

Cheers,
 

helenhill

Senior Member
Well I have taken a Major Plunge
back to Film
This past summer i bought an m4
and went between that and an Rd1
but the more I looked at the Film Image
the more I became Hooked
Then Eric took my m4 having caught the same bug...
So I got an M2
started developing this past Winter /sitting on the Living Room Floor w/ changing bag
and off to the Bathroom to develop...
23 minutes Later waiting for the negs to dry
and then off to local photo shop to have the negs scanned @ $5.00 a roll.
Thats my Life at the Moment
and I'm Quite Content
I LOVE Contrast & could not achieve as much ATMOSPHERE w/Digital

But I will certainly ADMIT my PP skills are limited
whereas when I do Film very Little tweaking is Involved-

Best of Luck with whatever You Choose....:)
 

viablex1

Active member
I know the guy from mylab deals with people from all over the world with no problem as does Dr5..

and canada does have the best hockey players!!
 

simonclivehughes

Active member
I know the guy from mylab deals with people from all over the world with no problem as does Dr5..

and canada does have the best hockey players!!
I'm not so worried about the company dealing with Canada as I am about the difficulties that I might have. Sending things across the border can be problematic going both ways.

Ciao,
 

simonclivehughes

Active member
Well I have taken a Major Plunge
back to Film
This past summer i bought an m4
and went between that and an Rd1
but the more I looked at the Film Image
the more I became Hooked
Then Eric took my m4 having caught the same bug...
So I got an M2
started developing this past Winter /sitting on the Living Room Floor w/ changing bag
and off to the Bathroom to develop...
23 minutes Later waiting for the negs to dry
and then off to local photo shop to have the negs scanned @ $5.00 a roll.
Thats my Life at the Moment
and I'm Quite Content
I LOVE Contrast & could not achieve as much ATMOSPHERE w/Digital

But I will certainly ADMIT my PP skills are limited
whereas when I do Film very Little tweaking is Involved-

Best of Luck with whatever You Choose....:)
Thanks Helen, it's nice to hear your take on it. My problem with doing the developing myself is twofold... one, we currently live in a basement suite and the smell of the developer would be a bear to get rid of, and two, I really don't like the idea of having to cope with disposing of the used chemicals. (I've gotten a whole lot "greener" in my old age!)

I just checked on the cost of a scanner and yikes! I'm pretty sure that I'm going to be better off in sticking with digital. I sense that the GAS attack would be much more severe going back to the film paradigm than if I keep on course for the DP2.

I'm really quite satisfied with my B&W conversions these days (especially from the DP1), so I may just as well stick with it. In my heart of hearts I should probably admit that I simply have gear lust for the Leica and get over it! I actually bought an M4-P a couple of years ago but right after that, I bought the two M8s, so the M4-P just sat there until I finally sold it. Damn... should have just kept it (just like the M6TTL and the M7 I also had).

Cheers,
 

TRSmith

Subscriber Member
I've recently been working through a similar scenario leading up to my Rolleiflex TLR purchase. I spent almost 20 years wishing I could return to photography but because I was unable to get a darkroom going, I never did. I was relieved when digital started to emerge as an alternative. But I now want to do both.

The breakthrough for me was finding a photographic collaborative darkroom located about 2 hours away. I can rent time there to use either the film or print darkrooms for a modest fee. It's a bit of a drive, but I think it's going to be worth it.

You might look for something similar in your area. Maybe at a University or school that offers photo classes. In the end, if it comes down to developing film in the bathroom sink, that might not be so bad.

The scanning is another matter and will no doubt involve a purchase. But for now I'm taking it a step at a time.

I wish you well with your film dream!
 

viablex1

Active member
I'm not so worried about the company dealing with Canada as I am about the difficulties that I might have. Sending things across the border can be problematic going both ways.

Ciao,
I hear you, I can check with some canadians I know and ask who they utilize..

I love film...
 

kevinparis

Member
Ok just my pennies worth...personal feelings only .. your mileage may vary

in the last week i have developed my first film in 20+ years.. and become the prou owner of a lietz/minola CL ( wont call it a leica CL in fear of upsetting the more obsessive :)... but form factor wise that still that is what the M8 should have been :)

My initial experience is that going back to film, while potentially rewarding is a longer, more frustrating experience than digital.

First of all there is the act of taking the photo - no auto exposure and of lesser importance no auto focus. No instant preview and the fact if you have black and white film then all you will ever get is black and white. I know most of the history of photography learned to live with this - but going back is unsettling at times

then you have the developing - easy to do - and not very time consuming - but you are entering a world of infinite variables- film developer, temperature time, quality of water, dust content of your apartment - and thats before you try and read everybodies opinon of what is the best film/developer combnation.

Cross that hurdle and you have a negative, in focus and exposed correctly and dust free then there is the scanning. I use a Plustek 7300 - not expensive and not, I am sure the the best quality but as Nikon seems to be the only other game in town then you have to live with that - the issue is the software - I am a black belt ninja in working/demonstrating/training in software - I have been doing it a long time over all sorts of areas from music to video and desktop publishing and the supposed best bits of software Vue scan and Silverfast are unredeeming piles of crap in terms of user interface - I am sure they can produce great results - but they are not for the innocent user.

Even if you pass the scanning hurdle - then you enter the Photoshop hell - now i know many digital photographers already paddle or indeed swim free in this pool.. but it is still a scary place ... and already you are working with at least one more layer of variables than the digital photographer ( digital = exposure/RAW/PP film=exposure/developing/scanning /PP). And don't underestimate the time required for spotting and removing all those dust and scratches that appear at the slightest provocation

Overall the whole process is more out of my control than my current workflow which is shoot on Olympus 510 import to Aperture spend 5 minutes tweaking and then send to flickr

Are my photos better on film or digital - actually don't know - haven't really shot back to back with the same lenses on both mediums.

There is a romance to film and indeed a look - and for certain work it is the the only way to go - but it ain't easy.

cheers

K
 

popum

New member
I'll join you in this hell of indecision. I've been considering a return to film and have decided that it only made sense if the film gave me something SIGNIFICANT that digital didn't. For me, significant means more than a personal feel for the image. At the end of the day, 35mm, and 120 were not enough different from digital to warrant the extra effort that film involves and was described above. I'm now going down the path of exploring 4x5 LF to get the tilt and swings that are not available in most digital set-ups. I believe that this would open up a different POV in my photography.

Can anyone suggest a good 12 step program.

Mike
 
D

DougDolde

Guest
Not really. I really enjoyed the process of shooting with a view camera. But then there is that nasty scanning part. If you want a top quality scan there's no way getting around paying for a drum scan.

My Aptus 75S is amazing and really much more versatile than a 45 setup. I can experiment all I want, bracket every shot, and process the files as soon as I get home. The wind doesn't bother me like it did with a 45 and it's much easier to shoot a long focal length.

Sometimes I think about wanting another film camera, but it's mostly just nostalgia.
 

monza

Active member
I bought a used Dimage Scan IV for under $200, and shoot B&W C41, get it processed at the local grocery for about $3, and it's scanned at that time in low res onto CD. I pick the best images, and use the Dimage to get a higher quality scan.
 

simonclivehughes

Active member
Kevin,

Thanks for your detailed reply. As I was reading it, I was remembering much of what you were experiencing in terms of aggravations re the film-to-digital workflow process.

Mike,

Yes, you hit it right on the head... it's simply not SIGNIFICANT enough for me for my photographic requirements to go this route.

Doug,

You've also nailed it... nostalgia is a large part of my dilemma. A nostalgia for a way of working that was once the only route, as well as a longing for the feel of an Leica M series camera.

Monza,

You certainly seem to have a pretty easy flow there... I envy you that. I'm still not convinced that it would be quite so simple for me, plus I'd need to invest in a fair bit of equipment that would inevitably see little use.


I seem to have convinced myself of sticking with digital and waiting for the DP2 to satisfy my desires for an optimum 40mm solution in a small package. I'll leave any further discussion to the rest of you who may be still on the fence!

Cheers,
 
N

nei1

Guest
Doug,after looking at some of the terrific vistas on your website and your change over from 5x4 to digital back I was wondering which you prefer in terms of image quality,accuracy of what you see to what you get if you like.Obviously on the whole digital works better for you but if you are indeed getting better accuracy using digital how far up the digital ladder do you need to be to achieve this(or how low could be got away with)Also have you ever used a monochrome only back and if so what did you think of it.Sorry to ask so many questions but after looking at your wonderful website I feel youre in a pretty unique position to answer my questions,thanks...........Neil.
 

Cindy Flood

Super Moderator
Simon,
I find working with film very satisfying. It is a slower process for me. I have a couple of film M's. I enjoy the metering and setting up and I like the look that film brings.

I shoot C41 and take my roll to the local drugstore. They develop it for just over $2.00 per roll (in one hour:D). I use a Nikon film scanner and proceed like Monza does. I have found scans from the drugstore to only be usable for a catalog, so I wouldn't suggest you use them for scanning. An established photo lab would be better, but probably more costly.

I just bought a Rolleiflex and am exploring a new scanner. If you think you would only be shooting 35mm, then I would recommend the Nikon V ED. I am going to need one that scans 120, too. I'm also going to start developing my own film, but only because I want to.

You could put a kit together with a CL and 40mm cron with a Nikon V for about $1000. If you don't like the process, you would lose very little reselling it. You wouldn't take a hit like you will if you buy a new DP2 and don't like it. Just my 2Cents.
 

Lars

Active member
My Aptus 75S is amazing and really much more versatile than a 45 setup. I can experiment all I want, bracket every shot, and process the files as soon as I get home. The wind doesn't bother me like it did with a 45 and it's much easier to shoot a long focal length.
In all honesty, we're talking a significant difference in investment here, so while comparison is relevant WRT workflow and IQ, it might not be once you look at the financials. It depends on the pricetag of your time and your financing opportunities.

When I set out to travel a few years ago, I picked up two Toyo 8x10 monorails on ebay (one as spare) for $500 each. At that time (2003), moving to MFDB would have been financially impossible for me, as this was not photography that would directly generate revenue.

Granted MF digital is much cheaper today, but there is still the issue of initial investment and writeoffs.
 
D

DougDolde

Guest
Lars, I do indeed admire anyone who shoots 8x10. And you use it well !
 

Lars

Active member
Lars, I do indeed admire anyone who shoots 8x10. And you use it well !
Thanks Doug :) My decision might have been different today, a 40+MP MF back would have been an interesting alternative. Your 75S back sells from Calumet for $18K... still out of reach.
 
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