The new Canon Eos 1D MKIV Not "V" Night Video

[wayne_s]

I would expect the S2 with its 6 micron ccd sensor pixels to have about the same high iso performance as the new Phase 65's which I think has the same pixel size.

 

[2x2]

I would expect the S2 with its 6 micron ccd sensor pixels to have about the same high iso performance as the new Phase 65's which I think has the same pixel size.

The P65+ is a completely different animal, including pixel binning + technology.
I think it is borderline ridiculous to compare a 37.5 MP sensor with a 65 MP one.

 

[KETCH ROSSI]

Well, I hope you tested digital MF lenses and not older film ones.
Regarding your 400 ISO experience ... doesn't really matter. What matters is what Leica from the get-go (over a year ago) promised and still hasn't delivered upon. The first revolutionary MF camera that offers DSLR like easiness of use and can shoot up to ISO 1600.
Having said that, to give respect where respect indeed is due, Leica did bring us something new and exciting. The S2 is the very first weather-sealed studio camera. Hurray!

:ROTFL:

Yes Phase one, Mamiya and Hasselblad new digital glass, actually I wasn't the one doing the test but I was present since my interest in moving to MF, test showed variations in all formats, and great resolution charts and performance coming form every manufacturer, also there was more then one copy for each lens, and in some cases copy variation was very evident.

400 ISO was mentioned cause that is my sweet spot, or at list it has been for the past 20 years, in response to how little I had the need for a camera with High ISO, and for this it was not a concern for the S2 high ISO performance, and also we can't really be comparing a DSLR ISO to a MF.

But now with the 1D IV my first high ISO capable DSLR I could come to enjoy shooting at high ISO and explore its functionality.

S2, unfortunately is an other matter all together, possibly they will make up with the S3

Any way for me I decided to wait till the release of the RED EPIC 645 to move to MF and have one in all Cine camera and Photo Camera, as I just can't justify 30 to 50K on a system I only use occasionally so till then Rental will do.

BUt since I have a DF body on pre-order if I don't sale it I will end up getting a DB for it any ways, as I do love the difference in the MF IQ.

 

[wayne_s]

Not sure what you mean by far superior?
The new 7D and 1d4 share the same new AF and intelligent metering technology with the same dual digic 4 chips. The differences are:
1. more AF sensors 52 vs. 36
2. cross pt sensors are functional with f5.6 or faster lenses vs. f2.8 for the 7d
3. speed, 10fps vs. 8
other non-AF related differences
4. bigger pro tank body vs. smaller prosumer body
5. dual card slots vs. single card slot
6. 16MP APS-H sensor vs. 18MP APS-C sensor, better high iso less reach vs.more reach and poorer high iso.
7. slightly faster flash sync speed
8. $5k vs $1.7k
What I was trying to say earlier is that the new AF and intelligent exposure metering system which will be common for 7d, 1d4, and 1ds4 looks excellent and has fixed some of the problems identified in the 1d3 AF system. The 7d has all the custom functions for AF like the 1 series.
As LJ was saying earlier, the 7d is an interesting new unique dslr system which is between the 50d line and the 1d line. I have a 1ds3,5d, 1d2n and now a 7d. I understand wanting a pro body for out in the field. I think the 7d is a good option for a 2nd body, one which would give you much more reach which is needed for things like bird photography.I like carrying both a FF camera for landscape and a crop camera with fast AF for wildlife/birding. I went with the 7D instead of 1d4 gaining extra reach and saving $3.3k for use soon when I upgrade my 1ds3 to a 1ds4.With the recent shorter life cycle of pro dslrs, one has to take into account more the rapid depreciation of these bodies which is expensive. Not quite as bad as MFDB but then they get special upgrade path deals.

Sorry I was a little off on the # of AF points for both cameras:

1d4 has 45 AF pts. with 39 of those being cross pt sensors.
7d has 19 AF pts all being cross pt. sensors with a special dual cross sensor pt. in the center.
As I mentioned above the 1d4's horizontal sensitivity of their cross pt. sensors works with lenses f5.6 or faster while the 7d's only f2.8 or faster.

 

[KETCH ROSSI]

NO big deal Wayne, we all know the specs

I really just hope that this time this AF points will be put to good use from the start, I'm surely not up to an other Blu Dot Drama..

 

[wayne_s]

The P65+ is a completely different animal, including pixel binning + technology.
I think it is borderline ridiculous to compare a 37.5 MP sensor with a 65 MP one.

I was making the noise comparison at a pixel level basis and not on the whole image with no pixel binning.Yes, at the full image level, the P65+ has sensor size advantag and would be much better when normalizing for the same FOV.

 

[LJL]

Folks,
Is it possible that we might be able to keep the MF discussions in the MF forum? Same with the RED discussions? Not trying to squelch any good discussion, but there is plenty of very active conversation about P65+ v. S2 going on in other threads. When/if Canon builds a bigger, more MF-like camera, complete with pixel-binning, etc., then all lines will be blurred. I do understand how the new HD video features are starting to encroach upon video platforms, and how the RED system is now making cameras that could be competing with "still" photography at some point, and all of that discussion is great. Just looking to keep some of the Canon stuff more germane to Canon, and any direct comparisons or tests, not just DSLR v. MF v. cine.

Sorry if that sounds too narrow, but when I checked this thread for further discussion, I thought I had landed in the MF forum for a minute ;-) This is plenty to be excited about in all, and now with the new 7D and 1DMkIV from Canon, plus a hopefully pending 1DsMkIV with some great specs, it would be great to be able to talk more about them in this section of the forum. Let's not lose any of the discussions in general, but maybe start new threads or topics when things start to drift afar. Just a thought.

LJ