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Thread: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

  1. #1
    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Here I am in the cold and cloudy Northwest (Port Angeles, WA) taking care of my Dad after bypass surgery, so I had my 5D mark II delivery re-routed. I haven't had much time, nor the weather to shoot much, but here are a few. Nothing to compare these to as I am just trying to see what the camera is capable of.

    The first thing I have noticed is that the AA filter seems to be quite potent..., but the images seem to take sharpening well, at least with the Canon proprietary software (DPP). All I have to use right now is my Dad's i-MAC with the Canon software loaded on it. Still figuring out the software as time allows.

    First impressions of noise are OK. ISO 1600 looks to be the max I will be using, but still with some artifacts and noise in the darkest shadows. By comparison, I would only use my Nikon D3 up to 2000 or so as there is too much noise in the shadows at 3200 for my taste.

    Anyway...here are a few snaps around the house with little done to them except some sharpening, maybe some curve adjustment or saturation boost.

    The first 4 examples are from the best weather since I have been here; a very cold (24 degrees) yet clear morning with hard frost. The first is the full image (nothing special) and then 100% crops with no sharpening, moderate sharpening and heavy sharpening. I used the Zeiss ZF (with EOS adapter) 100mm Makro Planar, with manual exposure mode and live view for focus. Note: I like the live view on the 5D II better than the Nikon D3 as the frame refresh rates are higher resulting in immediate viewing of changes in focus. With the D3 there is always a delay. Native ISO 200 used with mirror up for live view, on a tripod. If memory serves me, F8 or so was used on the Zeiss.

    The last shot is just a tripod snap of a fruit bowl under incandescent lighting, using the Canon 135 f2L at f11. Used autofocus here.
    Jeff T.
    Jeff Turner's Emerging Light Photography
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    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Moderate sharpening and heavy sharpening.....
    Jeff T.
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    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    And finally....the kitchen fruit bowl....

    Exciting stuff....ey?

    Hopefully as my Dad recovers and the weather cooperates, I will actually be able to shoot some real images. The Olympic Peninsula is just amazingly beautiful!!!
    Jeff T.
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    what is your opinion of manually focusing in the viewfinder with the zeiss primes? Is there enough texture to the supplied focus screen?

    (I wouldn't spend too much time figuring out DPP, it is awful software, I would think practically no one makes use of it.)

    ACR, Lr or C1 would make a better choice. Thanks for posting-how'd you get the camera so fast??

  5. #5
    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Manual focus with the Zeiss primes via view finder seems very difficult except, perhaps, in the brightest light which I have largely not had here in the Northwest. Lloyd Chambers of Diglloyd has reported problems with focus confirm with the Zeiss ZE (Canon mount and chipped) 85mm with his 1DsIII. He has contacted Zeiss regarding the problem. I can't test focus confirm with an adapter mounted ZF lens. Focus via live view on a tripod is very easy.

    I was surprised that I received the camera so fast. I guess I pre-ordered on the day Adorama listed availability for pre-order (thank you KenRockwell.com).

    Yes, DPP seems very limited, compared to what I am use to (C1, ACR in Lightroom and CS4). But...since I am working on Dad's computer it will have to do for now.

    I have been unimpressed by ACR RAW conversion of Nikon NEF files. How is it for Canon CR2 files?
    Jeff T.
    Jeff Turner's Emerging Light Photography
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Jeff, thank you for posting. It is especially interesting to see the same crop posted with the various levels of sharpening. The file does seem to take sharpening rather well.

    I recently sold my 5D with the thoughts of getting a 5D Mk II. I will likely have to wait a while to get one since I didn't bother pre-ordering, but that is OK since it gives me more time to weigh my options.

    I look forward to more of your thoughts and photos from the 5D Mk II.

    Mark

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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Jeff, do you know if the 5D focusing screens will fit the 5D Mk II. I ask because I still have a Brightscreen split prism focusing screen.

    Mark

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Jeff FYI . I noticed yesterday that C1 4.6 is coming in a couple weeks and does support all the 5D II files. From my Canon day's i liked C1 on there files , not sure this still holds true since it has been awhile and we will have to see what profile is built for it. Look forward to seeing more images. Your one point on the AA filter is not good news IMHO.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Hello Mark, and my pleasure for posting. I really love all the sharing that goes on in this forum and hope to contribute back. I will post more as time and weather permits.

    It is not clear if focusing screens are interchangeable between 5D and 5DII. The model number designations are different, "Eg-" for the 5DII and "Ee-" for the 5D.

    Guy, thanks so much for the heads-up regarding the new C1 version. I have always liked C1 vs. ACR. And I agree with you, the seemingly "heavy handed" AA filter is a disappointment to me as well. So we will see how much I really end up using this camera for back country landscape. I continue to plan for the move from larger format film to a MF digital back ala Don Libby with his Cambo RS and wonderful German optics (which I have always loved), or an Alpa Max. A Mamiya RZ is just too darned heavy to pack for miles. Still plan to use the RZ with whatever back I ultimately decide on and will probably also want a 645 or 6x6 for "tooling around town" photography.
    Jeff T.
    Jeff Turner's Emerging Light Photography
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  10. #10
    Bhakti-rider
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    I'm no expert, but I know from Fred Miranda forums that I'm not the only Canon user who much prefers the result of raw conversion in DPP as opposed to ACR. I also have Bibble Pro, and it's definitely different; I'm looking forward to version 5. I'd like to try Capture One, but haven't yet.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    I have used C1Pro, LR2 and Aperture2 in the past years.

    My ranking - which results from my observations of RAW converter quality mainly:

    1) Aperture
    2) LR
    3) C1Pro

  12. #12
    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhakti-rider View Post
    I'm no expert, but I know from Fred Miranda forums that I'm not the only Canon user who much prefers the result of raw conversion in DPP as opposed to ACR. I also have Bibble Pro, and it's definitely different; I'm looking forward to version 5. I'd like to try Capture One, but haven't yet.
    I haven't yet experimented with C1 with Canon files, and as of yet, C1 can't read 5DII files, so when that functionality becomes available (soon per Guy), I will compare all three (DPP, ACR, C1). Certainly for Nikon NEF files C1 generally does a better job than ACR, but not every time oddly enough. I tend to use whatever RAW conversion yields the best results for each image. Time consuming for sure, but for landscapes, time is less critical. For most commercial clients, work flow time is critical and I will use only the best RAW conversion for the file format.
    Jeff T.
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    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I have used C1Pro, LR2 and Aperture2 in the past years.

    My ranking - which results from my observations of RAW converter quality mainly:

    1) Aperture
    2) LR
    3) C1Pro
    Hello Peter! Do you find this to be generally true regardless of the proprietary file format (NEF vs CR2), or is your observation apply just to Canon CR2 files?

    Thanks!!
    Jeff T.
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Hi Jeff,

    Thanks for posting these! You mentioned ISO 3200 had too much shadow noise for you, but I am really interested in seeing some 3200 and 6400 files if possible. Any chance you could grab a few simple inside the house at night shots at the higher ISOs and share them?

    Thanks,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    I bit the bullet and ordered one.. Should be shipped on Friday and arrive to me by Tuesday. I can do some high iso test images. Amazing how a few years ago we we had a canon with iso 100,200, and 400 and no one even wanted to touch 400--- and this was with a 3 megapixel camera...

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    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Hi Jeff,

    Thanks for posting these! You mentioned ISO 3200 had too much shadow noise for you, but I am really interested in seeing some 3200 and 6400 files if possible. Any chance you could grab a few simple inside the house at night shots at the higher ISOs and share them?

    Thanks,
    Hello Jack:

    Sure thing! I shot a few of "the fruit bowl" at increasing ISO. Shot on a tripod, same f-stop=11, varying shutter speed as I increased the ISO (tried to keep the exposures approximately equal), auto WB, lighting was just a few overhead kitchen incandescent bulbs.
    Jeff T.
    Jeff Turner's Emerging Light Photography
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  17. #17
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    I'm on the fence, but really would like to trade up if possible. I've been reading about some sort of "black pixel" halo when shooting lights or high contrast imagery. That's my "thing"! Have you noticed any such issue with your 5D II?

    Thanks in advance for any info,
    -AD

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    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    ...and finally ISO 3200 and 6400....

    Oh, by-the-way, these are screen shots of 100% crops.

    Cheers, Jack!
    Jeff T.
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    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I'm on the fence, but really would like to trade up if possible. I've been reading about some sort of "black pixel" halo when shooting lights or high contrast imagery. That's my "thing"! Have you noticed any such issue with your 5D II?

    Thanks in advance for any info,
    -AD
    Unfortunately I have not been able to do any shooting at night here in Port Angeles as I am also caring for my dad after his bypass surgery...and the weather has been....well...winter up here. I have read about these same strange black dots, typically at the right perimeter of the pinpoint light source. We'll see if in a week or so, I get the time to do some night shooting.
    Jeff T.
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Hmmm it starts to go at ISO 1600 it looks like but 3200 and 6400 look pretty ugly. Look at the plate in front the small shadow area or grey area. Little surprised
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  21. #21
    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Hey Guy and good morning! I included a portion of the plate so that viewers could evaluate noise not only in the shadows as per Jack's request, but also in mid and lighter tones. I agree with your assessment on the noise; 1600 starts to look a little noisy and I would probably only use it if I had too. For my work, 3200 and 6400 are out of the question.

    Oh...and I did forget to mention that I turned off all noise reduction in DPP, and as far as I can tell so far, there is no user adjustable NR in camera except for long exposures.
    Jeff T.
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    I will say the shadow noise in the mk 11 looks much better for me then the nikon d3 does at 6400 . I think the point is the mk11 is usable for street shooting at 6400 not ad work. I was just in New Orleans, I used my m8 for low light work and the mk11 for no light work. Will post photos in a few days. By the way for me it is not a replacement for a 1ds mk111 just another tool for other work. I.E. Focus responsiveness.

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    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by dseelig View Post
    I will say the shadow noise in the mk 11 looks much better for me then the nikon d3 does at 6400 . I think the point is the mk11 is usable for street shooting at 6400 not ad work. I was just in New Orleans, I used my m8 for low light work and the mk11 for no light work. Will post photos in a few days. By the way for me it is not a replacement for a 1ds mk111 just another tool for other work. I.E. Focus responsiveness.
    I agree that the Nikon D3 is certainly no better than the 5dII, and the 5DII may have the edge, at least based on my experience with my D3, though I may do a head to head comparison with the same shot. I don't have matching 135 mm lenses for the two, but will slap the Zeiss ZF 100 Makro on both and shoot this same image again tonight. Direct comparison will be interesting.
    Jeff T.
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Turner View Post
    ...and finally ISO 3200 and 6400....

    Oh, by-the-way, these are screen shots of 100% crops.

    Cheers, Jack!
    Thanks for these Jeff! I would say that 6400 is usable for when I'd want to use it -- I took the liberty of copying the 6400 shot and running DFine on it... Granted, best to run it on the actual file, but this looks very promising to me! I linked the before and after below to make them easier to compare:
    Jack
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  25. #25
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Thats pretty impressive Jack.

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    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Thanks for the comparison Jack. And for you additional pleasure, here are links to download the full files as TIFFs:

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/3ade66

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/fqu9wk

    Define did a very nice job. It will be interesting to see how it handles other parts of the image file.
    Jeff T.
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Several of us last year on FM did some detailed raw conversion tests for the 5D and we concluded DPP 3.1 generated files were superior to ARC, C1 and just about everything else. Historically DPP sucked but with 3.1 the raw conversion improved considerably. I don't use it for anything but raw conversion, generate a 16bit TIF and pull it into CS3. Of course, with the 5DII we need to redo these tests.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Here are some new comparison crops as run on the 6400 tiff. Folks, I think we have a winner for high ISO work

    Before and after DFine:
    Jack
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    Member Jeff Turner's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Not too shabby Jack. That does look pretty good! I wish I had the rest of my software here in Port Angeles, WA....so that I could run similar tests. When I am home....or I could just keep shipping files to you....LOL

    Cheers!
    Jeff T.
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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    I just took delivery of my new 5Dm2 and I can agree that it is truly remarkable. It's easily as good as the D700 (which I owned for a short time and loved) and the files are huge and detailed, which is something the D700 didn't really give me. ISO 3200 is super and cleans and sharpens with Noise Ninja like crazy. I will try to post some samples soon.

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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Jack incredible.. Have you or anyone compared NoiseNinja and DFINE?

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Well the D-fine seems to pull the rabbit out of the hat
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  33. #33
    asabet
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    There are 5D II vs D3/D700 super high ISO comparisons popping up all over the place, and my impression is that it's close enough that it doesn't matter which one is the high ISO "champ".

    I think this was to be expected though, since the 1Ds III (when processed carefully from RAW) was also very close to the D3 at high ISO, and the 5D II has a slightly improved 1Ds III sensor. In fact, the dxomark tests showed more of an improvement than I expected from the modifications Chuck Westfall described.

    One of the things that makes the 5D II high ISO ability more obvious than that of the 1Ds III is the ability to shoot 10MP sRAW with the 5D II. This means that even someone who has no processing skills can fire off an sRAW1 capture and get similar results to a native D3/D700 file. Cool stuff!

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Hi Chris:

    The second set I posted are not screen shots, but jpeg conversions directly off the tiff, so are the best I can show you online...

    That said, yes *ALL* NR tools reduce detail to some degree. In addition they "smear" color. The bigger issue here is how much color-channel smearing goes on beforehand during raw conversion. IMO with AA-filtered DSLR's it is a lot -- and thus the additional from the NR tool is usually not all that bothersome as it is only adding to what is already there. This smearing is what renders the waxy or plastic color effect many refer to when comparing a typical Nikon or Canon shot to a MF DB or M8/DMR non-AA capture.

    When you use the NR tools on a non-AA sensor, the color smearing is fairly notable (and most of us don't like it) and IMO gives an appearance of even less detail -- probably not the case in reality, but it's what it looks like to me at least. However, *most* of the time, cleaning up the noise and getting the color smearing is preferable to not cleaning up the noise at all -- though I will go on record stating that any NR routine definitely detracts from overall file detail, so finding a happy medium on the amount applied is key.

    The things I like about DFine are 1) it has a very intuitive UI, 2) it allows you to easily adjust the Luminance noise reduction (detail) separate from the color noise (smearing), and 3) it has an option to output the NR as a layer over the original in CS, very beneficial for further tweaking and masking. That said, I think Noise Ninja and NeatImage are also a very nice tools -- my recommendation is to download and compare the trial versions of all three to see which ultimately suits your workflow best.
    Jack
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    I have noise ninja and as soon as I have some time to try it out--- going to play with Dfine. I really have only used Noise ninja with my LX-3 or DLUX-2 in the past. I rarely have used it with my canon images because I rarely go beyond a specific high iso (which I consider a cutoff) if I can avoid it. In cases where i use the higher isos it has usually been for the kids events and they only want small prints

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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    another thing about noise ninja that I am afraid to admit is that I "just" discovered that you can control the noise reduction per channel, and imo this really sets it apart, (not sure if dfine has that) which makes it really easy to dial back until you are just filtering the noise and not the detail.

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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Hi Robert:

    Yes, in DFine you have the options to use the whole image (what I did in the examples above), individual color channels, luminance only or chrominance only. You can then set the L and C NR values manually, have DFine do it automatically (what I did for the above), and then adjust those auto settings after the fact if desired. Finally, you can "brush" the NR levels chosen to apply it only to the areas of the image you want it on.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Turner View Post
    Hello Peter! Do you find this to be generally true regardless of the proprietary file format (NEF vs CR2), or is your observation apply just to Canon CR2 files?

    Thanks!!
    Sorry to answer after such a long time!

    I find this a general observation, so for all RAW file formats I am using, which are, NEF, CRF and DNG.

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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    I spent about 2 hours after I downloaded Jeff's iso6400 image comparing Noise Ninja and DFine. I compared different color vs luminance noise reduction settings to keep the detail of the end of the banana as close as possible using the two programs. I have to say that I find that DFine did a better job of reducing noise with less degradation and artifacts on the 5D file. The red noisy area of the apple and the left lower portion of the image--- especially the shadow region were less noisy with DFine while both had the same detail. I lost more detail with NoiseNinja to get the noise to a a comparable level in my comparisons. I also fine DFine a bit easier to use. I have to admit, I am very impressed. I will try some other high iso images in the near future.

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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Anyone ever try the DxO software?
    Or do any of you put any value in their finding and stats on cameras?

    Here is the link if you don't know them. http://www.dxomark.com/

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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    Even when i tried a number of various parameters as you mention below - e.g. adjusting various Lum vs Individual Color channel noise reduction combinations, I could not get the Noise Ninja to get to the same optimal result I was able to get with DFINE. I mean I tried a lot of comparisons but it was not exhaustive. In the end, the DFINE would be my choice. So the issue is that I have compared one image made from a single camera using the two independent NR programs. I am going to process some of my high iso Panasonic LX-3 images and see the end result.

    Quote Originally Posted by robertwright View Post
    another thing about noise ninja that I am afraid to admit is that I "just" discovered that you can control the noise reduction per channel, and imo this really sets it apart, (not sure if dfine has that) which makes it really easy to dial back until you are just filtering the noise and not the detail.

  43. #43
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    Re: A few photos from Canon 5D Mark II

    adorama has dfine 2.0 for 79.95 in their christmas catalog.

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