Fujifilm X-100 testimonies surfacing

[raist3d]

Sorry, but which high end glass for the K5 ?????

Also I do disagree with the ISO1600 statement, I am developing my ORFs in Lr3.3 and/or C1Pro and I absolutely cannot find any noise!

And I have tried my hand and it and I can see it. In fact, at ISO 1600 you can even get some banding! (though it's rare). Equally importantly the shadows don't have much leeway at all. If you have a high contrast/DR scene, lifting the shadow gets you noise.

As for Pentax high end glass you have several primes to choose from, and also the DA * Gold lenses.

Just set the parameters right of course! But I have much more details than I had with the K5 (and of course only a DA70 for comparison).

Ok, here's a little challenge for you then. Get a shot of the E-5 at ISO 6400 *without* noise reduction - or any of the Olympus noise reduction settings. You can do this in Olympus Viewer 2 by getting a RAW. The shot below is ISO 12880- the light is bad fluorescent light (low light). Here's a 2 megapixel shot of it, not a VGA size shot, and this is 1/50 at F4.

Now, I have applied no tweaking to WB, noise reduction whatsoever. Here's a 100% crop:

Has noise? Sure. Can it still print and look decent? Oh yes. Again, I haven't even tried any noise reduction stunts like Ninja, Nik, Topaz, LR, you name it. Now, can you please try this with the E-5? Feel free to use 1/50 at F2.8 for pure equivalence of DOF and exposure. ISO 6400. Let us know how it goes (and please please, post a link to the shots).

Thanks in advance.

Again and again, I think all this trying to argue about same or similar IQ from the other cameras is just useless, as the main issue is the AA filter which is almost not there in the E5.

Hey, I think you are the one who brought up the K-5 comparison. Just trying to clear things up. Lacking the AA doesn't get the E-5 better than but on par with in resolution. The rest is the same old sensor. Keep that in mind. The E-5 does fantastic at low ISO but once the ISO cranks up....

Certainly Olympus lenses are fantastic.

- Raist

PS: here's the typical shared E-5 shot size (sometimes smaller, this one at least is SVGA)

Looks almost noiseless except for the chroma noise which wouldn't be hard to remove and show at this size, at all.

 

[Terry]

Let's keep this on topic. E-5 vs K5 can be addressed elsewhere.

 

[Jungle Jim]

Here is a link to a youtube video of a Thai shop showing off the X100. Don't know what is up with attaching an external viewfinder to the rig but what is interesting is the use of a Thumbs-up (CSEP-2) onto the camera's hot shoe for easier hand holding. Also shows him working the various menus on the LCD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6li49H45gFA

All the Best.

 

[jorgeAD]

Re: Fujifilm X-100 Price Control

As I stated previously in this E-5, sorry, X100 thread, I was hoping to get mine after the marketing dust has settled and prices have come down, most likely after the summer.

However I just read this statement form a FujiFilm representative (AUTO translation BEWARE):

"The price now is about 10,000 yuan. From today's camera market, over half a year the price of the camera will fall badly, for such a camera we want to maintain its value, do not want it to increase sales through price cuts. We want it to be a year to buy and buy now prices are the same product."

http://translate.google.com.au/tran...u=http://www.eprice.com.tw/dc/talk/720/15572/

That Taiwan X100 forum info site also says they're hoping to sell 100,000 units globally and 20,000 units in china within next year...

At a thread in dpreview a frenchman named AlbertoS is saying this:

"Indeed! I was just told by my dealer where I preordered one (in France), that the stores which will carry the X100 have to sign a pretty draconian agreement with Fuji, not allowing them, for example, to pass cameras to other stores who may not have signed the same agreement.

Apparently, Fuji will only work with 60 or so dealers in France, and will be privileging brick-and-mortar stores over internet dealers. It looks like the camera will not easily be available at a discount through the web... "

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1020&thread=37867086

Can FujiFilm do this legally in the States ? Are you people aware of any other Camera Manufacturer that has forced retailers to hold the Manufactured Suggested Retail Price for a whole year ?

 

[tom in mpls]

Re: Fujifilm X-100 Price Control

Can FujiFilm do this legally in the States ? Are you people aware of any other Camera Manufacturer that has forced retailers to sustain the Manufactured Suggested Retail Price for a whole year ?

My understanding in the US is that manufacturers can no longer legally force sellers to sell at the MSRP. However, the manufacturer may have other leverage. They may share advertising costs with sellers, and they could threaten to cut that off. Also, they may threaten not to ship product to a seller that sells at a discount.

I know of a Leica reseller here who sells lenses at a discount, advertising them as "used" [wink wink]. This seller also sells "new" at full MSRP. I was told by this seller that Leica would not ship product to him if he sold "new" lenses at a discount.

 

[Terry]

Sony - has something in place that pricing is very consistent for their cameras and lenses. You will not see the price vary unless Sony is doing a promotion. I think some of it comes down to razor thin margins on certain items really not leaving the retailer any room to discount.

 

[jonoslack]

Thanks in advance.

Terry says :OT: and she may be right, but it was really a point worth making, and random and badly based criticisms need to be answered for the sake of others who may be considering which way to run.



all the best

 

[Terry]

Talking about those cameras in relation to the X100 is fine and dandy and comparing IQ between all of them is just fine. This was just turning into an E-5 vs K5 high ISO slugfest.....which is pefectly valid as two cameras that do compete against each other in the weather sealed dslr category....just better placed in a different thread....which I think there already is one:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23400

 

[tom in mpls]

OK, punish me, Terry, for being way, way OT. But I can't resist asking if you plan to be first in line at the Apple Store on the 11th for your new iPad.

I promise I'll stay on topic from now on.:angel:

 

[Terry]

OK, punish me, Terry, for being way, way OT. But I can't resist asking if you plan to be first in line at the Apple Store on the 11th for your new iPad.

I promise I'll stay on topic from now on.:angel:

Well since it will garner a good laugh .
I have a flight from SF to Orlando on launch day that leaves 9:55AM and arrives 6:50PM....I think that sufficiently wipes out the day!



.

 

[monza]

Re: Fujifilm X-100 Price Control

Can FujiFilm do this legally in the States ? Are you people aware of any other Camera Manufacturer that has forced retailers to hold the Manufactured Suggested Retail Price for a whole year ?

Fujifilm is implementing a MAP incentive like pretty much all other manufacturers. Basically, the dealer gets kickback money if MAP is honored (minimum advertised price.) The dealer can sell at whatever price it wants, but it can't advertise at less than the MAP unless it wants to lose the incentive.

The margins are low, so no dealer wants to lose the incentive.

With regards to the Leica dealer, yes, there is a lot of <winking> going on to circumvent the Leica dealer agreement. Said dealer agreement prevents even ebay sales, but there are dealers posting on ebay all the time. A dealer agreement is only as strong as the manufacturer's resolve in pursuing those who break it.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Here is a link to a youtube video of a Thai shop showing off the X100. Don't know what is up with attaching an external viewfinder to the rig but what is interesting is the use of a Thumbs-up (CSEP-2) onto the camera's hot shoe for easier hand holding. Also shows him working the various menus on the LCD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6li49H45gFA

All the Best.

Ha ha... I was having a cup coffee with those guys yesterday, but forgot to ask about the viewfinder. My guess is that it's there to tempt Thai customers to buy it. It looks kind of cute, and cuteness is king in this country. Useful? Hey, now we're getting seriously off topic, aren't we :ROTFL:

 

[jorgeAD]

Re: Fujifilm X-100 Price Control

The dealer can sell at whatever price it wants, but it can't advertise at less than the MAP unless it wants to lose the incentive. The margins are low, so no dealer wants to lose the incentive.

Thanks for the explanation, but I guess some would do anyhting in order to close the sale (straight from Amazon):

"WHY DONT WE SHOW THE PRICE ?

Retailers like Amazon have the legal right to set their own prices independently, but some manufacturers place restrictions on how those prices may be communicated. Because our price on this item is lower than the manufacturer's "minimum advertised price," the manufacturer does not allow us to show you our price until you take further action, such as placing the item in your shopping cart, or in some cases, proceeding to the final checkout stage. The steps required depend on the details of the manufacturer's minimum advertised price policy. Taking these steps allows Amazon to show you our price consistent with our goal of always offering you the lowest possible prices on the widest selection of products."

So its all a matter of time and waiting a bit for good old "offer and demand" to do its thing.

Wonder how many people are in several X100 waiting lists, are closet zoomoholics, or after 29 days of new photo jewlery will just send it back for refund...

Anyway, I am willing to pay the $1200.. but for an all-black more discrete model. With my luck it is likely to be a "limited edition" going for $1500...

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Price in Bangkok is THB 32,990 including 7% VAT. That is just under $1,100.

 

[ZoranC]

Because delivering it decreases quality on lowest ISOs.

Not correct. Increasing ability of well to collect photons and reducing amount of noise in pipeline improves quality of output _overall_. Just compare D700 and D3s for example at their lower ISOs. You can start with DXOMark.

Also - native minimum ISO is getting higher and higher.

Not correct. Please name on of recent say Canon or Nikon models that had increase in top ISO and corresponding change in quality of base ISO.

I have compared NEX and u43 on one manual high quality lens. NEX has bigger sensor, higher resolution. But does not bring more details on lower ISOs.

I don't know how you compared them but I have NEX, I have m43, I have a number of high quality lens and I have number of brand name adapters (more than one per mount to eliminate manufacturing tolerance variations) and my experience does not match yours, NEX5 is so sharp you can cut yourself with it (below is 100% crop of SOOC shot with ZM 25/2.8 @ 2.8; can you imagine what it would look like @ 5.6?).

Friend sent me two RAWs - one from NEX, one from small Sigma. NEX is OK, digital, but lifeless.

I had Sigma. Second shot below is from NEX5. I do not call NEX5 lifeless neither on it's own nor when compared to Sigma.

 

[ZoranC]

Re: X100 Depth of Field

Full Frame sensors have 63.4% the depth-of-field of APS-C sensors when focused at 3 feet. So F2 APS-C behaves close to F2.8 in FF (according to online calculators and taking into account the appropriate circle of confusion for each format).

Actually DOFMaster calculator claims differently, according to it DOF for 70mm lens @ 2.8 and 3 feet is 0.09 feet for FF (D700), and 0.06 feet for APS-C (D300).

 

[jorgeAD]

Re: X100 Depth of Field

Actually DOFMaster calculator claims differently, according to it DOF for 70mm lens @ 2.8 and 3 feet is 0.09 feet for FF (D700), and 0.06 feet for APS-C (D300).

This is an X100 thread, try DOFMaster for a 23mm lens...

Wait a minute..You got more DOF for Full Frame ??

 

[ZoranC]

Re: X100 Depth of Field

Wait a minute..You got more DOF for Full Frame ??

Plug the numbers in, same lens, same distance, same aperture, just change the body

 

[jorgeAD]

Re: X100 Depth of Field

Plug the numbers in, same lens, same distance, same aperture, just change the body

Right so APS-C is 0.09 and FF is 0.06, or 66.6% of APS-C... sheesh I was off by 2.2% :loco:

Dont we love number crunching ! The relevant bit was that even thought total DOF isnt that different the "draw" or progression towards out of focuseness is, so unless the backround is much further away, or the focusing distance much closer, the 23mm in the X100 wont really "clear out" any background clutter...

 

[ZoranC]

Re: X100 Depth of Field

Right so APS-C is 0.09 and FF is 0.06, or 66.6%... sheeh I was off by 2.2% :loco:

It's the _other_ way around, one for APS-C is _smaller_ (0.06)