new Fuji X Pro1 camera

[Shashin]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Macro lenses are also hardly optimised for portrait shooting.

All the macro lenses I have used have made great lenses for portraits. I can't think of one example where a macro lens does not work well as they tend to have high tolerances than normal focus range lenses.

I think the Fuji, which is only a 1:2 macro, would be fine lens. If you are looking for a shallow depth of field and you don't think f/2.4 is going to give it to you on an APS sensor, then this will not work for you. But this is not a fault with Fuji, it just does not fit your style.

Where you thinking of only using this system for your wedding work?

 

[raist3d]

Re: new camera

Who else is in the class?

I say better do one or the other as good as the best. If it doesn't good manual focus very well that will be a problem. If you are going retro and to the basics that means good manual focus.

Raist

 

[Brian Mosley]

Re: new camera

. . . . I suppose it's just a bee in my personal bonnet, but it seems to me that if you are going to have a non-slr optical viewfinder, then you need some means of REALLY showing you what you've ACTUALLY focused on (whether it's manual or AF). The X100 couldn't show you this, maybe Fuji have pulled something out of the bag here . . maybe!

You're right Jono - if you're going to drop the rangefinder mechanism, you need to come up with something functionally at least as good to compete.

I would suggest a focus peaking pattern projected onto the OVF with the blinder open... registration would be a challenge, but I'm sure it could be made to work.

Brian

 

[raist3d]

Re: new camera

That image is impressive to me because the details are there on the shiny back of the man's head to the shadows of the foliage which are already in the shadow. This is subtropical light. Very impressive tonal/dynamic range intact with the details.

Though I have not looked (hard), I am unsure if the Pentax K5 can do that.

Oh I have *zero* doubts the k-5 can do that. In fact I will say upfront I still expect the k-5 to beat the fuji in dynamic range. The reason fuji has done great dynamic range is by dual sensitive photo site arrangements - like the old sr super Ccd or the exr CMOS/super Ccd. This camera is not
One of those and while fuji still does pull off good dr even in no dual sensitivity sensor designs it won't outdo their own dual sr sensor in dr and it certainly
Won't outdo the k-5 sensor barring another
Major quantum leap. Judging by the noise I am
Seeing at their higher ISos I don't think they will beat the Sony sensor of the k-5 on that.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think they wil do bad but if they can't show impressive per pixel resolution then the removal of the AA filter becomes meaningless that should be their key advantage here and if it doesn't show up then you just ended up with a good quality sensor but won't stand from those doing great already.

Where fuji will beat Pentax hands down is in doing the jpegs though Pentax jpegs aren't all bad.

Here's three shots to show what I mean on k-5. They are pngs as to not compress any data. I can assure you any highlight or shadow of the first is recoverable and we have hard hitting sunlight and shadow on the same shot:

The next shot shows you just how much shadow range the k-5 has. Even with this shadow range it has decent default highlight range- remember that you do have this range available for highlights to by exposing to the right or enabling highlight priority to get more highlights. A lot of people make the mistake to think great shadow recovery is not part of total dr or can't be translated into more highlight recovery:

Original :

Recovered:

Raist

 

[raist3d]

Re: new camera

You're right Jono - if you're going to drop the rangefinder mechanism, you need to come up with something functionally at least as good to compete.

I would suggest a focus peaking pattern projected onto the OVF with the blinder open... registration would be a challenge, but I'm sure it could be made to work.

Brian

And I agree with both of you, it's what I have been saying. I am dissappointed the lenses focus fly by wire with no dof scale and probably no quick rotation lock to infinity. Although the dof scale can show on the hybrid view finder at least.

 

[retow]

Re: new camera

Who else is in the class?

My ranking for best in class MF/ZF implementation is Leica RF, NEX5N/NEX7 with m-lenses & Ricoh GXR-m. AF standards for larger sensor compacts are set by Nikon's N1 and Olympus' EP3, they are the 2012 benchmarks others will catch up to soon. As sensor technology has improved significantly over the last 2 years, chasing the next level of usable iso is no longer priority for me but camera performance, user interface, ergonomics and haptics instead.

 

[Vivek]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Raist, You are showing a picture of Fuji (mispelled FUGI) apples as an example. :ROTFL:

I don't know. I will never know as I have zero interest in Pentax's DSLRs (or any DSLRs for that matter, I have about 4-5 sitting unused). Possibly the Ricoh A16 (Ricoh own Pentax now), if the Fuji does not pan out or if there is a Ricoh/Pentax FF mirrorless cam.

 

[monza]

Re: new camera

My ranking for best in class MF/ZF implementation is Leica RF, NEX5N/NEX7 with m-lenses & Ricoh GXR-m. AF standards for larger sensor compacts are set by Nikon's N1 and Olympus' EP3, they are the 2012 benchmarks others will catch up to soon. As sensor technology has improved significantly over the last 2 years, chasing the next level of usable iso is no longer priority for me but camera performance, user interface, ergonomics and haptics instead.

That's a pretty big class. Kindergarten all the way to post-graduate!

The N1 has a tiny sensor. Far easier to do contrast AF, and the lenses are tiny and with less mass.

Nothing wrong with comparing this array of cameras but really, what else is in the X-Pro1 class?

 

[Terry]

Re: new camera

That's a pretty big class. Kindergarten all the way to post-graduate!

The N1 has a tiny sensor. Far easier to do contrast AF, and the lenses are tiny and with less mass.

Nothing wrong with comparing this array of cameras but really, what else is in the X-Pro1 class?

The Nikon with full frame 70-200 wide open at f2.8 focuses very fast (evan at 200mm). It is using a combined Phase Detect/CDAF system. Phase in good light.

 

[monza]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

I want to see a photo of that setup.

 

[monza]

Re: new camera

As sensor technology has improved significantly over the last 2 years, chasing the next level of usable iso is no longer priority for me but camera performance, user interface, ergonomics and haptics instead.

I agree...sensors are extremely good. It's now down to other factors.

 

[raist3d]

Re: new camera

That's a pretty big class. Kindergarten all the way to post-graduate!

The N1 has a tiny sensor. Far easier to do contrast AF, and the lenses are tiny and with less mass.

Nothing wrong with comparing this array of cameras but really, what else is in the X-Pro1 class?

Monza, in reality it doesn't matter if there's something else to compare in the same class or not. A well built camera as a photographic tool should have a good way to do focusing be af or ideally (IMHO) manual focus. If it has no good way of focus then as a photographic tool that's a bit of a fail. And if you are going to command a high price you better do one or the other reasonably well.

As far as classes go this would be more of a Leica m, but "close to class" comparisons can still be done say vs nex 7. And if fuji is really aiming this at pros like weddings (and they said they are as part of their pro category) then any Dslr in its price range also can be at least partially compared.

 

[raist3d]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Raist, You are showing a picture of Fuji (mispelled FUGI) apples as an example. :ROTFL:

I don't know. I will never know as I have zero interest in Pentax's DSLRs (or any DSLRs for that matter, I have about 4-5 sitting unused). Possibly the Ricoh A16 (Ricoh own Pentax now), if the Fuji does not pan out or if there is a Ricoh/Pentax FF mirrorless cam.

Complete coincidence, I didn't know the type of apple ;-). As for
Interest or on Pentax dslrs- I never said what I said so you are interested in them. I was just making the point the k-5 can easily have that range. And talking in general market terms I see fuji has a good sensor with good tones and dr but then so does the k-5, which is why I say they should stand out by other aspects then. Or maye the raws will show hyper
Detail.

 

[monza]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Well of course, it must be able to focus...that's a given.

I agree, it must have an acceptable level of performance to be a 'pro' camera. However I don't think it needs to focus as fast as a phase detect sports DSLR that costs about the same money, in order to be acceptably fast.

 

[Vivek]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Complete coincidence, I didn't know the type of apple ;-). As for
Interest or on Pentax dslrs- I never said what I said so you are interested in them. I was just making the point the k-5 can easily have that range. And talking in general market terms I see fuji has a good sensor with good tones and dr but then so does the k-5, which is why I say they should stand out by other aspects then. Or maye the raws will show hyper
Detail.

Raist, No qualms there at all. I was wondering about Fuji claims about "as good as a FF camera" was all about. I was not sure if they were comparing their new cam with the Kodak Pro 14n/c or the Nikon D3s. From "gizmodo" "review", it seems they have compared the outputs from a Canon 5D Mk II with that of the X Pro 1.

Now, that gets interesting.

I hope it comes close to the hyped performance. I don't care if it shows any hyper details and such.

 

[raist3d]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Raist, No qualms there at all. I was wondering about Fuji claims about "as good as a FF camera" was all about. I was not sure if they were comparing their new cam with the Kodak Pro 14n/c or the Nikon D3s. From "gizmodo" "review", it seems they have compared the outputs from a Canon 5D Mk II with that of the X Pro 1.

Now, that gets interesting.

I hope it comes close to the hyped performance. I don't care if it shows any hyper details and such.

That's a Fuji claim of course. Why
not check the Fuji image samples yourself? They have at least nine in their website. I am speaking looking at those. That gives a good idea of
the jpegs

 

[Vivek]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

That's a Fuji claim of course. Why
not check the Fuji image samples yourself? They have at least nine in their website. I am speaking looking at those. That gives a good idea of
the jpegs

I did look at them (Fuji site) and they are utter BS.

 

[raist3d]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

I did look at them (Fuji site) and they are utter BS.

Well then, that's not a good first step, is it? ;-). Would be interesting how much more detail can be had from raw

Personally I think the fuji samples look really good in color and tonal range. What I am not seeing is the lack of AA filter detail which means that the camera has to stand out on other things. Would still like to see a raw conversion.

 

[Vivek]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

The problem with anything with so much hype is that while attracting attention, it also warrants extra scrutiny. May be Fuji don't care as long as they can sell the 50 or 100 thousand units they can produce just to get a foothold in this very competitive market.

But, I am very tight with money and would not mind spending a few hours to investigate what all the fuss is about.

 

[Brian Mosley]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

The Fuji people on video do all seem to be absolutely blown away by the new sensor quality - really, you'd think they were talking about a foveon sensor with Fuji colour

I want to see what they're seeing... :bugeyes: maybe we'll see everything come into focus when dpreview (+ others) get production cameras.

I sort of wish they'd held off on the sample images, if there's a quantum leap about to occur.

Cheers

Brian