new Fuji X Pro1 camera

[Brian Mosley]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

These really are two different cameras for two different market segments.

OK, but which market segment is the Fuji X-Pro 1 designed for?

From Petapixel :
Fujifilm X-Pro1 Next to the Leica M9-P

Cheers

Brian

 

[monza]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Perhaps for the market that wants a high performance sensor in a small package that doesn't cost $7k? Or rather, 11k with a 50/1.4 equivalent!

 

[Brian Mosley]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

I think we're talking about the same market (see above illustration)

Cheers

Brian

 

[monza]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Same size, not the same market.

 

[Brian Mosley]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Actually, if Fuji want to appeal to Leica lens owners looking for a cheaper 2nd body with better sensor, I think they need to work on focus peaking, or some slick means of focus assist.

Cheers

Brian

 

[Vivek]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

11k for a camera +lens isn't that bad. At least it is visible and functional.

Take a look here: 28 ridiculously expensive luxury vehicles, gadgets, and dwellings | Tecca

 

[Brian Mosley]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Ah, just need to get myself up into the 1% and I'm right with you Vivek! :ROTFL:

 

[monza]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Just to be clear, I wasn't being critical of the 11k figure. There are plenty of people who spend that and more, Leica's profits show that. There are far more buyers in the bell curve of pricing where the Fuji sits; hence my contention they are different markets.

 

[Vivek]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

I was not trying to imply that you were being critical, Robert.

 

[jonoslack]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

OK, but which market segment is the Fuji X-Pro 1 designed for?

From Petapixel :
Fujifilm X-Pro1 Next to the Leica M9-P

Cheers

Brian

Hmmm - I wonder who thought of that sloping shoulder - the X100 is undeniably a stunning camera to look at, but I think this looks really dreary.

Actually, if Fuji want to appeal to Leica lens owners looking for a cheaper 2nd body with better sensor, I think they need to work on focus peaking, or some slick means of focus assist.

Cheers

Brian

As a Leica owner (not really looking for a second body). I've used the X100, and the trouble is that, although the focusing on the M9 is old fashioned, manual and takes a lot of practice, it's also very predictable and quick (if you've put in the practice). The X100 AF was not predictable (i.e. if you had the OVF you were never quite sure where it had focused) and the MF was neither quick nor practical.

the idea of the hybrid viewfinder is fine, but it has to do something useful, not just show different views. If Fuji think that zoom in manual focusing is better than focus peaking on an EVF, then that's their prerogative - but the real problem is not the manual focusing on the EVF, but on the OVF.

Basically, if you're a Leica owner looking for a second body, it has to have the assets of the Leica . . if you want something with AV, Live view and an EVF which also takes leica lenses . . . isn't the NEX7 a better bet?

ooops . . sounding grumpy, it must be 3 hours sleep last night . . . perhaps I'd better find a glass of wine!

all the best

. . ps I'm sure the IQ will be fab . . . nearly as good as the Nikon D800e . . :ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

I think you have to look to Asia to find the real market potential for the X Pro-1, just like with some other recent Fuji models, and yes, it will be a Leica substitute for many here. I was, but probably shouldn't have been, surprised to see the X100 and later the X10 pop up in camera shops where the Digital Rebel used to be the top model. Half the world population resides within a 4 hour flight from here, and when you live in an anthill, standing out from the crowd is what matters. Just look at the street fashion trends in Japan.

Remember that Fuji is a company that (together with Cosina/Voigtländer) successfully launched a 6x7 folder just a few years ago. Instant cameras? New models every year. Orange and green Pentax K-R anyone? Asians love gadget, particularly fashion gadgets, and they take photos of each other every hour of the day, preferably in one of umpteen standard poses that they have see in magazines or on TV. If they can do that with a "Japanese Leica" that costs a fraction of the real thing, fine.The colour matches the black windows of their totally souped-up Honda Jazz as well

Oh, and they do it on video too, the poses I mean

[HD/MV] SNSD/Girls Generation(

 

[monza]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Isn't an optical view (allowing viewing outside the frame) 'something useful? or is that just a Leica urban legend... I see the Ricoh or the NEX as a better option for adapted lenses, but those fast Fuji primes are well-priced, so why not use those with AF.

 

[jonoslack]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Isn't an optical view (allowing viewing outside the frame) 'something useful? or is that just a Leica urban legend... I see the Ricoh or the NEX as a better option for adapted lenses, but those fast Fuji primes are well-priced, so why not use those with AF.

Yes Robert - it's fundamental (absolutely fundamental) . . . but you need to be able to focus precisely within it - even if it's a crappy 60 year old 'precise focus' - of course, I've spent 5 years learning how to precise focus with a leica, but I simply couldn't precisely manual focus with the X100 and it's sexy hybrid viewfinder (the tools to do it are not there) , and the X1 pro doesn't seem different. . . of course, I may be missing something?

. . . and and and .. if you want AF, then there are 10000 better models (like the Nikon D800e for instance - which seems to be about the same price).

 

[Brian Mosley]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

You're not missing anything in terms of the X100 manual focusing Jono, it's useless... I use one touch auto focus in manual focus mode to do the necessary adjustment and it works fine.

The X100 OVF gives you that nice peripheral vision in the viewfinder. I love it.

Cheers

Brian

 

[monza]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Agreed...neither are designed for manual focus with their native lenses with the OVF...as such, they are really AF cameras. They followed the Contax G lead, it appears.

There are some tricks and techniques -- ironic as it might seem, using the AFL button and then manual fine-tuning from there. EDIT: as Brian indicated

Manual focus of adapted lenses remains to be seen, but NEX and Ricoh have a clear lead. I don't see how the OVF will be useful with adapted lenses except for prefocus/hyperfocal.

 

[jonoslack]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Agreed...neither are designed for manual focus with their native lenses with the OVF...as such, they are really AF cameras. They followed the Contax G lead, it appears.

Hah!
Robert - you hit the nail on the head.
I had a G1 and a G2, and although the lenses are magic, I always thought the concept was a catastrophe . . .
1. you couldn't see around the subject like the M
2. the autofocus was dreadful compared to an SLR

the worst of both worlds . . . Fuji seem to be campaigning to take over the Kyocera's crown with the G2

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Agreed...neither are designed for manual focus with their native lenses with the OVF...as such, they are really AF cameras. They followed the Contax G lead, it appears.

Yes, obviously they are AF cameras. My not so qualified guess is that most buyers upgrade from an iPhone or similar. Manual focus on the iPhone sucks, so Fuji has to make a camera that first and foremost works with AF. Alternatively, the production numbers would be so low that the price would double or triple.

Then, not even Jono would buy it.... wait, you haven't ordered one yet. D800E? Now you've mentioned it twice. Time to order?

 

[monza]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

What Fuji calls manual focusing really is autofocus with a manual override.

I have owned G1s and G2s a few times, never found them to be quite as difficult as Jono's experience. They had their own set of AF tricks, too <wink>

 

[jonoslack]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Then, not even Jono would buy it.... wait, you haven't ordered one yet. D800E? Now you've mentioned it twice. Time to order?

Hi Jorgen
I seem to have ordered an OMD.
D800 - no (tempted, but I prefer the colours on the Sony, and I have all those nice Zeiss lenses)
Fuji X1 pro - not even considered it, not for a second

. . . . really . . . as Robert put it so perceptively; it's the obvious inheritor of the G2 mantle . . .

 

[jonoslack]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

What Fuji calls manual focusing really is autofocus with a manual override.

I have owned G1s and G2s a few times, never found them to be quite as difficult as Jono's experience. They had their own set of AF tricks, too <wink>

Of course, they were manageable, just like the X100 . . . just that if you're going to put in that much effort and money to manage something, you might as well get wise and buy a Nikon d800 . . because it seems to me that the X1pro has lots of disadvantages, but, apart from size, no advantages over the Nikon. . . Unlike the M9 which allows precise focusing and a real overview in all lighting conditions, and with a large selection of almost perfect lenses.

I should go to bed