new Fuji X Pro1 camera

[Terry]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

D800 - no (tempted, but I prefer the colours on the Sony, and I have all those nice Zeiss lenses)

And you will have a Sony version with that sensor later in 2012

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Hi Jorgen
I seem to have ordered an OMD.
D800 - no (tempted, but I prefer the colours on the Sony, and I have all those nice Zeiss lenses)
Fuji X1 pro - not even considered it, not for a second

. . . . really . . . as Robert put it so perceptively; it's the obvious inheritor of the G2 mantle . . .

I didn't really think you would buy a D800.

Yes, the Pro1 is clearly aiming for the G1/2 market, so what does that make it? The ultimate quality p&s? In a way I think it is. The G1/2 wasn't meant to be manual focus cameras, that's the reason why they had AF. It's the same with the Fuji. It's for people who are reasonably interested in photography and require very high quality, but are not dedicated enough to pay the monies for a Leica and then have to focus manually. It's a kind of pseudo Leica crowd, mostly below 40. So I find the discussion here a bit beyond the purpose of the camera. If we want a good manual focus camera below the price of a Leica, the Ricoh, Sonys and m4/3s are all better options and cheaper too.

I wouldn't mind having one of course, but when I look at all the m4/3 gear I can buy for the same money, it's an easy choice. And maybe, when some of those early adopters sell it to buy the new Leica XM14, I'll line up to buy his little gadget for a fifth of the price, like I did with the D2Xs

 

[jonoslack]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

And you will have a Sony version with that sensor later in 2012

Exactly Terry - and if Leica haven't made it unnecessary for me I'll certainly buy it. in the meantime the A77 and the A900 fill that niche very nicely

I didn't really think you would buy a D800.

Please to be predictable - I did seriously consider ditching all Sony kit and buying one . . . but I really should be able to wait . . . and history and Nikon and me are not good bedfellows :ROTFL:

Yes, the Pro1 is clearly aiming for the G1/2 market, so what does that make it? The ultimate quality p&s? In a way I think it is. The G1/2 wasn't meant to be manual focus cameras, that's the reason why they had AF. It's the same with the Fuji.

. . .but the word on the street is that the AF is really slow - excellent image quality doesn't seem to me to make up for the combination of crappy MF and slow AF

I wouldn't mind having one of course, but when I look at all the m4/3 gear I can buy for the same money, it's an easy choice. And maybe, when some of those early adopters sell it to buy the new Leica XM14, I'll line up to buy his little gadget for a fifth of the price, like I did with the D2Xs

But why? I mean why would you want it? it isn't even handsome - at least the X100 is a really beautiful and desirable object, but that slopey shoulder is out of proportion, and makes it look kindof lopsided.

This is nothing to do with my penchant for Leica - all the other cameras I've bought should at least convince you of that - I just can't see the attraction of this camera (unless the AF really is good - and even then, without good MF . . .). Actually, I'm impressed by the two step OVF - but it would only be useful if you could then focus successfully using it!

The D800 is a completely different beast - I'm absolutely convinced by it in every respect - I have no criticism . . I can even see an argument for ditching all my Sony kit and getting one (and I might end up doing that) . . the only thing stopping me is that in the end I've always disliked the Nikon files - again, no criticism, just personal taste.

 

[Lars]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

...
The D800 is a completely different beast - I'm absolutely convinced by it in every respect - I have no criticism . . I can even see an argument for ditching all my Sony kit and getting one (and I might end up doing that) . . the only thing stopping me is that in the end I've always disliked the Nikon files - again, no criticism, just personal taste.

Perhaps the Nikon files will be different this time around. Not sure how closely you looked at D3X files - weaker AA, seemingly different Bayer filter.

I remember us having a short discussion re D700 colors over a year ago - you were clearly dissatisfied compared to A900, I didn't see it. I've come to accept that my eyes (or my brain) sees color differently than yours. The wakeup call was a BBC documentary on human vision and color.

 

[jonoslack]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Perhaps the Nikon files will be different this time around. Not sure how closely you looked at D3X files - weaker AA, seemingly different Bayer filter.

I remember us having a short discussion re D700 colors over a year ago - you were clearly dissatisfied compared to A900, I didn't see it. I've come to accept that my eyes (or my brain) sees color differently than yours. The wakeup call was a BBC documentary on human vision and color.

Hi Lars
I'm sure you're right - we all see things differently. I also understand that if 90% of shooters like the Nikon colours, and if I don't it's probably my problem! However, the difficulty was shooting early in the morning and late in the evening (when I like to shoot most), when there seems to be a yellow cast which I couldn't deal with (I've always suspected that it's a byproduct of an attempt to get skin tones right).

Sure, you can mess with colour, but generally speaking I'd rather have a camera where, if I get the WB as I want it, I don't have to do anymore with the colour. Olympus and Sony are always like that . . . Leica is mostly like that (and tweaking the high ISO colour is a breeze) !

For me, the right thing to do is to wait until the D800e is thoroughly available and then rent or borrow one for a week or two and see how I go.

 

[Lars]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Hi Lars
I'm sure you're right - we all see things differently. I also understand that if 90% of shooters like the Nikon colours, and I don't it's probably my problem! However, the difficulty was shooting early in the morning and late in the evening (when I like to shoot most), when there seems to be a yellow cast which I couldn't deal with (I've always suspected that it's a byproduct of an attempt to get skin tones right).

Sure, you can mess with colour, but generally speaking I'd rather have a camera where, if I get the WB as I want it, I don't have to do anymore with the colour. Olympus and Sony are always like that . . . Leica is mostly like that (and tweaking the high ISO colour is a breeze) !

For me, the right thing to do is to wait until the D800e is thoroughly available and then rent or borrow one for a week or two and see how I go.

Yep makes perfect sense. For me OTOH it makes more sense to sell my D700 this weekend, keep all my Nikon glass, and then wait for the reviews before deciding on D800/D800E.

And now back to topic...

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

. . .but the word on the street is that the AF is really slow - excellent image quality doesn't seem to me to make up for the combination of crappy MF and slow AF



But why? I mean why would you want it? it isn't even handsome - at least the X100 is a really beautiful and desirable object, but that slopey shoulder is out of proportion, and makes it look kindof lopsided.

For some kinds of photography, travel in particular, I don't care about AF speed. Sometimes, it takes hours to get a photo anyway. I'm sure it's faster than my manual focusing. I'm a very slow manual focuser

I don't care what a camera looks like. Ugly is a statement too, and I don't think it's that bad. Leica is too symmetric for me, from the front, the top, any angle, it's not design, it's engineering, German engineering. Fuji is Japanese engineering.

What I do care about is ultimate image quality, so that I can't blame the camera if the image isn't optimal from a technical point of view. Do you play golf? I do once in a while. My handicap is higher than my IQ. I use a number 2 blade for fairway shots, and get a clean hit every 100th shot or so. Or maybe every 200th. That's like it should be for a rank amateur like me with that club, but on that 100th shot, heaven opens and angels are singing. It's that great an experience. That's the way I see the Fuji also, somewhat similar to one of my other Fujis, the S3 that shoots 4 fpm (like in 4 frames per minute) and where you see the subject several hundred yards down the tunnel viewfinder, even if you can touch it with your hand.

It's a challenge. I like that :thumbup:

 

[jonoslack]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

For some kinds of photography, travel in particular, I don't care about AF speed. Sometimes, it takes hours to get a photo anyway. I'm sure it's faster than my manual focusing. I'm a very slow manual focuser

I don't care what a camera looks like. Ugly is a statement too, and I don't think it's that bad. Leica is too symmetric for me, from the front, the top, any angle, it's not design, it's engineering, German engineering. Fuji is Japanese engineering.

What I do care about is ultimate image quality

So you're using m4/3?,

so that I can't blame the camera if the image isn't optimal from a technical point of view. Do you play golf? I do once in a while. My handicap is higher than my IQ. I use a number 2 blade for fairway shots, and get a clean hit every 100th shot or so. Or maybe every 200th. That's like it should be for a rank amateur like me with that club, but on that 100th shot, heaven opens and angels are singing. It's that great an experience. That's the way I see the Fuji also, somewhat similar to one of my other Fujis, the S3 that shoots 4 fpm (like in 4 frames per minute) and where you see the subject several hundred yards down the tunnel viewfinder, even if you can touch it with your hand.

It's a challenge. I like that :thumbup:

I like challenges as well . . but I wouldn't play golf with a stick of celery, and choosing a camera with splendid IQ, but no really good way to control focus seems like using a stick of celery to play golf.
oke::ROTFL:

 

[monza]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

For me, even the G1/G2 AF was much faster and more accurate than manual focusing of M bodies. Ms go way back for me, I was 18 when I got an M3. I got a G1 back in 1994 when they first came out. Still have one!

I suspect the 'word on the street' (or the interwebs) isn't as extreme in either the positive or negative direction, as is usually the case in such matters. In any case, I'll let you know when my test camera is delivered in a couple of days!

 

[jonoslack]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

HI Robert

For me, even the G1/G2 AF was much faster and more accurate than manual focusing of M bodies. Ms go way back for me, I was 18 when I got an M3. I got a G1 back in 1994 when they first came out. Still have one!

I got one when they came out as well, and had a couple of tries after that as well. I was a committed Contax user in those days (perhaps the RTSII is my all time favourite).
The problem with the AF was not accuracy - it was what it decided to focus on . . and the fact that you couldn't actually see what it decided to focus on! It's still the issue with many AF systems today - fine if it's a person 5ft away, but tricky if it's something smaller.

But my real gripe with the G1/G2 (I've had two G2s) was that you couldn't see around the image as you can on an M - If you want a WYSIWIG viewfinder, then why not use a dslr where you really do have good AF, and you can see what it's decided to focus on!

The trouble with focusing with an M is that it takes practice - continued practice - no good putting it away for 3 months and thinking it'll be okay when you come back.

I suspect the 'word on the street' (or the interwebs) isn't as extreme in either the positive or negative direction, as is usually the case in such matters. In any case, I'll let you know when my test camera is delivered in a couple of days!

I expect you're right about this - but however good the AF is, if there's a box which takes up 1/6th frame, and all you know is that the camera has focused on something within this box . . . but not what - then I can't see it as useful. . . often that's enough - but not always!

 

[monza]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Exactly as I see things...although to be fair, even DSLRs are not foolproof. Is it absolutely locked on the iris of my model? Sure looks like it in the viewfinder, and on the LCD...but bring it up on the laptop, and it's fuzzy...my experience with many Nikons, and most recently Sony A850.

And the little green 'focus confirmation' LED in Nikons? I always found it to be useless...

Quite possibly nothing beats the old school matte focusing screens from mid-70s SLRs like the RTS...infinite focus points, no moving a cursor around...ok, might be a bit tough with superwides. For that, use an M.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

So you're using m4/3?,

I tried to use the 7-14mm on a NEX, but somehow, it wouldn't fit. Now, there's the OM-D. There's no competition anywhere.

I like challenges as well . . but I wouldn't play golf with a stick of celery, and choosing a camera with splendid IQ, but no really good way to control focus seems like using a stick of celery to play golf.
oke::ROTFL:

Oh, but I can wait a couple of days for the camera to focus. There are always some activities I can tend to while waiting :watch: :chug: :sleep006:

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

And the little green 'focus confirmation' LED in Nikons? I always found it to be useless...

+ 1,000,000

 

[jonoslack]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Exactly as I see things...although to be fair, even DSLRs are not foolproof. Is it absolutely locked on the iris of my model? Sure looks like it in the viewfinder, and on the LCD...but bring it up on the laptop, and it's fuzzy...my experience with many Nikons, and most recently Sony A850.

And the little green 'focus confirmation' LED in Nikons? I always found it to be useless...

Quite possibly nothing beats the old school matte focusing screens from mid-70s SLRs like the RTS...infinite focus points, no moving a cursor around...ok, might be a bit tough with superwides. For that, use an M.

Absolutely Robert - I agree with everything. and +10001 on the focus confirmation with the little green light.

There is only one thing which doesn't mislead, and that's the focus patch on an M rangefinder - focusing with a Noctilux at 10ft wide open is easy - can you imagine an AF system trying to deal with that?:ROTFL:

 

[jonoslack]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Oh, but I can wait a couple of days for the camera to focus. There are always some activities I can tend to while waiting :watch: :chug: :sleep006:

I've never thought of going to the pub while the camera focuses . . .do you think that'll be possible with the OMD.
Incidentally Jorgen - it looks like, for the first time in ages, we will actually be shooting with the same camera! Let's Hope It's Good!.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Absolutely Robert - I agree with everything. and +10001 on the focus confirmation with the little green light.

There is only one thing which doesn't mislead, and that's the focus patch on an M rangefinder - focusing with a Noctilux at 10ft wide open is easy - can you imagine an AF system trying to deal with that?:ROTFL:

So do you think that an M10 with a Noct is the solution for me too? Maybe I should buy a Bessa and the 50/1.1 to see what it feels like. There's always the Camera Fantastic alternative if I succeed (I don't like the bokeh of the Voigtlander, but I'm sure it works fine for practice shoots).

Let's Hope It's Good!.

It'd better be

 

[jonoslack]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

So do you think that an M10 with a Noct is the solution for me too?

It's the solution for everyone

It'd better be

Or Else . . . (or else what?)

 

[monza]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

There is only one thing which doesn't mislead...

my iPhone 4s! and camera+

 

[rayyan]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

I have two astro telescopes. Same manufacturer. One is manual, the other is computerized. I key in where I want to focus, and
the microprocessor kicks it into action. The horse head nebula
is there. Very rarely, I have to tweak it a little. No big deal.
How do I know when to tweak manually? Experience.

But I love to use the manual one too. Thrilling to see the Nebula
come into view. Feel like Galileo. Wonder if Galileo would have preferred my auto tele. Looking outside the frame..give him a break. He was struggling with what was inside the frame. Just like me.

What have astro telescopes got to do with the Fuji X Pro1?
Nothing really. Just thought I would mention them.

The challenge. The image is upside down. But not
when I, too, am upside down? Let me make sure about this..
be back soon. Just don’t seem right somehow..

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Re: new Fuji X Pro1 camera (formerly called "new camera")

Now you made me look up Horsehead Nebula. Fascinating. I always wanted a telescope, even as a kid, but never got around to get one. Now, I live in the middle of the smog, so it would probably be useless anyway. Fujis are good for smog