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Thread: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

  1. #1851
    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    RAW File Converter can be a good starting point but misses some central features:

    - Highlight Recovery
    - Opening shadows
    - Not sure about sharpening either
    For now, I can live with the lack of highlight recovery and DR in shadows using this converter. It does a pretty good job of sharpening. I will probably use this converter rather than spend $300 for Capture One 7.

    I believe the RAF files will eventually receive the proper attention by Adobe for both Lightroom and Photoshop. I use both of those programs but rely on Photoshop 99% of the time.

    So the process (workflow) will be to use the RAW file converter EX and then finish work in Photoshop CS6. This is much the same process I use now with ACR before doing final post work in Photoshop.
    Jim Radcliffe
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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    No but just read apparently this feature has been requested a lot and fuji is considering it. If they are doing this they need to build a tiff at 14-bits and prophoto rgb space. That would keep a lot of the data.

    - raist
    I realise this would be processor intensive - but as an option for later RAW development in camera and saving as tiff... I would have thought this wouldn't take much development effort.

    It would be something to mitigate the poor 3rd party raw converter support in the short term, and make the X100s much more attractive to early adopters.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Not being a Techno, GearHead I wonder why Fuji chose the RAF file for RAW rather than having the camera create a DNG? My uneducated guess is that the X-Trans sensor is the reason. It may have been discussed at some point but I have missed that.

    Can anyone explain their choice of the RAF vs DNG?
    Jim Radcliffe
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    Senior Member Ario Arioldi's Avatar
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    The support provided by CO7 and by AccuRaw, even if still preliminary is in my view superior to the one provided by Fuji and Silkpix.
    It is difficult if not impossible to compare different raw converters based on different algoritms with diffferent defaults... But this is my personal experience.

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Great examples here, thanks for sharing folks.

    Quick question, can you develop in camera to tiff? Fuji obviously have the best raw conversion in-camera at the moment, and for now I'd be happy to do the critical base conversion in camera - provided I could get full, uncompressed colour resolution output.

    Thanks

    Brian
    Tiff 16 bit files are consistently large. Pushing a large file out to the storage card would take more time than the processor uses to create the file. Everyone likes a responsive camera.

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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    >I wonder why Fuji chose the RAF file for RAW rather than having the camera create a DNG? My uneducated guess is that the X-Trans sensor is the reason.

    All these 3rd party companies want their own thing (Pentax a nice exception). But also DNG would not help as there is no way to describe this sensor in DNG as of now I think.

    >I will probably use this converter rather than spend $300 for Capture One 7.

    Yes, this is a valid $300 question.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    So, if the in camera conversion is the best at this point, can the user shoot RAW, save them to their HD for cataloging and later use and then reload them to the camera as needed for alternate conversions?

    Jim

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Just bought an X-Pro 1, based mainly on the feedback I got in this thread. Also bought the 60mm f/2.4. These images were captured over the weekend. Like what I've seen so far. Processed in Lightroom.
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Quote Originally Posted by white.elephant View Post
    Just bought an X-Pro 1, based mainly on the feedback I got in this thread. Also bought the 60mm f/2.4. These images were captured over the weekend. Like what I've seen so far. Processed in Lightroom.
    Well congratulations on your new camera. Love the colours.

    Enjoy!

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Agreed. Very nice!

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    As I was already using Capture One 7, I was anxious to see what it would do with the Fuji files. Below are three versions of the same image, process respectively in Lightroom 4, SilkyPix and Capture One. What was of most interest to me was the increase in detail in the leaves of the trees. With LR and SP I got somewhat muddy results, with a painterly effect. It's most absent in the C1 processing. I was also able to draw out more in terms of color, and, I believe DR. It's not perfect, but I believe it's much better with C1. (BTW, I use Lightroom, together with Photoshop, for most of my work, but prefer Capture One for landscapes, and for some subjects when processing Leica files.)

    Lightroom 4:


    SilkyPix:


    Capture One 7:

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    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    Lloyd...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    As I was already using Capture One 7, I was anxious to see what it would do with the Fuji files. Below are three versions of the same image, process respectively in Lightroom 4, SilkyPix and Capture One. What was of most interest to me was the increase in detail in the leaves of the trees. With LR and SP I got somewhat muddy results, with a painterly effect. It's most absent in the C1 processing. I was also able to draw out more in terms of color, and, I believe DR. It's not perfect, but I believe it's much better with C1. (BTW, I use Lightroom, together with Photoshop, for most of my work, but prefer Capture One for landscapes, and for some subjects when processing Leica files.)
    Lloyd, any chance I can get that RAF file from you. I've been playing with Silkypix a lot more and I would like to see if I can duplicate your CO7 results using Silkypix.... if you don't mind, of course. If you have a link to the RAF file I can download it... if it's too much hassle, I understand.

    I have (in my playing with SP) discovered some things I missed on my first several attempts with that software and I am about to revise my opinon of it based on my working with it for the last two days.

    I have the latest version of Lightroom and I still remain unimpressed with it.. and frankly am more impressed today than I have ever been with Silkypix. Photoshop CS6 is my workhorse.
    Jim Radcliffe
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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Quote Originally Posted by JimGoshorn View Post
    So, if the in camera conversion is the best at this point, can the user shoot RAW, save them to their HD for cataloging and later use and then reload them to the camera as needed for alternate conversions?

    Jim
    Yes, but the result of the conversion will be a colour compressed jpeg. My question further up this thread was whether the RAW file could be converted to uncompressed tiff for post processing.

    It looks like lots of people have the same interest. Hopefully Fuji are listening.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    I Since I am only a potential buyer (this camera speaks to me more than the GH3), I have no experience on processing Fuji files but posts like this have me a bit concerned:

    diglloyd blog - Phase One Capture One Pro with Fuji X Raw (ARW) Files? How well does it work?

    Don't know if this guy is being an extreme pixel peeper or not but he doesn't seem to be a happy camper.

    Jim

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    Senior Member Ron (Netherlands)'s Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X-E1

    Can someone show some pictures of the camera itself with some leica lenses mounted, would love to see how it compares to the seize of a M9....
    Leica: IIa sync conversion, M6 TTL Millenium, Fuji X-E1;
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Anyone who thinks an 800E isn't much bigger isn't worth reading.

    He's a blogger looking for page hits by being controversial on a hot product. Ignore.
    David Anderson
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X-E1


    35/1.4
    heart soul & a camera
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X-E1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron (Netherlands) View Post
    Can someone show some pictures of the camera itself with some leica lenses mounted, would love to see how it compares to the seize of a M9....

    Compare camera dimensions side by side

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Someone needs his warm milk and a nap.
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    As I was already using Capture One 7, I was anxious to see what it would do with the Fuji files. Below are three versions of the same image, process respectively in Lightroom 4, SilkyPix and Capture One. What was of most interest to me was the increase in detail in the leaves of the trees. With LR and SP I got somewhat muddy results, with a painterly effect. It's most absent in the C1 processing. I was also able to draw out more in terms of color, and, I believe DR. It's not perfect, but I believe it's much better with C1. (BTW, I use Lightroom, together with Photoshop, for most of my work, but prefer Capture One for landscapes, and for some subjects when processing Leica files.)

    Capture One 7:
    At first I thought so but the cabin and fence in the foreground seem to be overly contrasty/sharp...are these JPG artifacts that you are not seeing in the program and only visible here?

    Somebody needs to get a decent RAW processor for these cameras...the lenses and the bodies are too nice to ignore...especially if the new 100s and potentially a new Pro with faster AF and MF.

    Bob

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Hard to tell, Bob. I'm not seeing them on my monitor here, or when looking them in Capture One. I did output them for the web (all three), and GetDPI adds some sharpening, so it may be a little overcooked in this smaller size.

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    That is good to know. I hope that in the long run this is a teething issue with the new sensor and that it will be a long-term success.

    Love the design of the cameras and the outlook of the company...supporting M glass directly.

    Bob

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    I hope so as well. Capture One stated that the processing algorithm for the Fuji sensor is only "preliminary". Hoping it gets even better. (And looking forward to the Zeiss lenses for the camera!)

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    tbh, i'm not impressed with co7 so far. i've always used lightroom and know my way around there pretty well, with co7 i seem to get muddy colors and still have some smudging. could be my workflow with co7, but i've been working everything in both programs, lr first, then trying to match colors and tones in co7. it's not working well.

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    I agree with you on most points. I use Lightroom pretty much everyday, so I'm much more comfortable with that. I'm getting more comfortable with Capture One, and prefer it for some applications. I am glad that Fuji raw files were added to it's capacity, and I did feel that for the one file I posted I got superior results out of C1 than either Lightroom or Silky Pix.

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    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    CO7 vs the FREE RAW File Converter EX

    Lloyd was kind enough to get his original RAF file to me so that I might try to duplicate his Capture One 7 work on this file. Let me point out that I have very little experience using the RAW File Converter (about 2 days now) and that I will probably become more proficient with its use.

    I believe there is a difference in the monitor settings that Lloyd and I are using. My monitor and Adobe tell me it's calibrated properly but I see a difference between Lloyd's image and mine as far as brightness goes. I have not modified Lloyd s image in any way.

    At any rate, here are the two images. Lloyd s version on top, mine on the bottom. If you wish to see a larger version of my try you can use this link for a file that is 50% in size of the original: http://www.boxedlight.com/xp1/images/RAF.jpg



    Since the forum software seems to downsize the images embeded, here is a link to the photo above that should display without size reduction: http://www.boxedlight.com/xp1/images/co7-rfcex.jpg

    My opinion is that once you become familiar with the FREE RAW File Developer you may be able to achieve the same results as using Capture One 7. This free program is certainly better than LightRoom and Photoshop RAW support. Does it equal Capture One Ver 7? I think it does or the difference, to my eye, is negligible.

    Capture One 7 may offer other features that make it a better choice for others but for simple RAW conversion of my RAF files I'm going to save $300 and use the RAW File Converter EX.

    My work flow for RAF files is to open the file in the RAW Converter, make adjustments (and you can make a lot of adjustments) then save the file as a TIF for any further work I might wish to do in Photoshop CS6. Mind you this is not something I do for every file, only those that I feel warrant special attention. Most of the time the JPGs are fine for my purposes.

    For those who have not tried the Free RAW Converter, here is a link to the download page.
    Download Drivers & Software | Fujifilm Global
    Jim Radcliffe
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Wish Diglloyd knew how to spell Crohn's disease....I stopped reading there...
    Ashwin Rao
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    Wish Diglloyd knew how to spell Crohn's disease....I stopped reading there...
    Lovely.

    I wouldn't let the wait for raw development support turn me the X100s... I'd develop in-camera in the short term.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X-E1

    Quote Originally Posted by back alley View Post
    tnx, I put another question in the other fuji M-lens thread...
    Leica: IIa sync conversion, M6 TTL Millenium, Fuji X-E1;
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    I realise this would be processor intensive - but as an option for later RAW development in camera and saving as tiff... I would have thought this wouldn't take much development effort.
    Actually it should not be that processor intensive since they are already creating JPEGS (probably they create a nice image and compress to JPEG, so all they have to do is "save it as a TIFF"). Now, saving the 14-bit TIFF is intensive in the sense of memory card writing speed/bandwidth but I am sure that can be deal with (keep that blinking light blinking for longer).

    Of course there's other testing/timing issues to consider, when the RAW buffer is full, etc. but yeah. I don't think it should be an unsurmountable task.

    It would be something to mitigate the poor 3rd party raw converter support in the short term, and make the X100s much more attractive to early adopters.

    Cheers

    Brian
    I agree.

    - Ricardo

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Radcliffe View Post
    Not being a Techno, GearHead I wonder why Fuji chose the RAF file for RAW rather than having the camera create a DNG? My uneducated guess is that the X-Trans sensor is the reason. It may have been discussed at some point but I have missed that.

    Can anyone explain their choice of the RAF vs DNG?
    Consider this "Romulan intelligence"* but DNG isn't as neutral as it is commonly thought. There's also the issue that specific manufacturers may have specific extra data/advantages that the DNG format can't quite capture (or if it can in terms of storage, a general DNG processor won't take advantage of until it can recognize the specific camera model).

    Michael Reichman is wrong on this one, he should know better.

    - Raist

    *- Star Trek reference where the Romulans always seemed to have some way to gather critical information, and it was never quite explained how, except by saying "Romulan Intelligence" (as in "CIA, etc.")

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    Raist...

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Consider this "Romulan intelligence"* but DNG isn't as neutral as it is commonly thought. There's also the issue that specific manufacturers may have specific extra data/advantages that the DNG format can't quite capture (or if it can in terms of storage, a general DNG processor won't take advantage of until it can recognize the specific camera model).

    Michael Reichman is wrong on this one, he should know better.

    - Raist

    *- Star Trek reference where the Romulans always seemed to have some way to gather critical information, and it was never quite explained how, except by saying "Romulan Intelligence" (as in "CIA, etc.")
    Raist, my friends in The Federation (both Klingon and Feringi) agree that Reichman is wrong. You really can't trust the Romulans, Reichman is a Romulan. The Vulcans, on the other hand, have indicated that, based on pure logic, there will be proper support for the X-Trans sensor via Photoshop on some future star date.
    Jim Radcliffe
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Self Portrait :-)




    Uwe Steinmueller
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    with 35mm 1.4
    Two Tourists

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Very nice.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Thanks, Uwe. Lovely camera on a lovely day.

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Started my Fuji X-Pro1 live just before Xmas.

    Shooting otherwise mainly Leica M9, sometimes Mamiya M7 and occasionally Canon 5DII.

    Great fun spending a day in Venice; still needed to get used to the controls of the Fuji. Very different experience to M9, incl. the high ISO capabilities. Very nice camera system.

    Peter

    3x Piazza San Marco:




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  38. #1888
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    With the 18-55mm zoom:







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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    Self Portrait :-)
    The upper one or the lower one?

  40. #1890
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    #1 BW has me as a shadow taking the pic. This influence actually the angle I could use.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X-E1

    Voigtlander Heliar 75mm F2.5 ISO 3200 1/30th wide open hand held

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    I have had my XE-1 for about ten days now and have about 50 images from it along with maybe 50 prints in sizes 6x9 inches and 9x13.5 inches comparing the different raw processors. Thanks to Lloyd and Jim R. for their postings I took a hard look at these and with just a few days experience with Silkypix and Capture One, I am starting to get some very nice prints.

    I printed each image in jpeg and raw converted with the above programs, I used the jpeg print as my norm and processed each raw file to a TIF and imported to CS6 to balance all three as best I could. I then printed them, I use QTR, and have been studying the results till my eyes crossed. I have to say that all three made excellent prints, but if I had to rank them 1, 2, 3, I would have to say Silkypix was the most pleasing image followed by the jpeg. I print using a combination of 70% warm ton and 30% sepia on Moab Entrada Natural matte finish.

    Not a very scientific method, but for the way I like to work, I think I have found what will work for me. Not the ideal answer as I like ACR/LM and I know how they work, but for the prints I now have from Silkypix, I won’t mind the time learning more about how it works.

    Now it is time to make photographs.

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Kolb View Post
    I print using a combination of 70% warm ton and 30% sepia on Moab Entrada Natural matte finish.


    Now it is time to make photographs.
    Platinum Prints at any point?


    Bob

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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!


    street_20121002_5906-Edit by Ricardson Williams, on Flickr

    X-PRO1 + Helios 58mm f/2 (M42 mount)

    street_20130117_0231 by Ricardson Williams, on Flickr
    Last edited by ricardsonwilliams; 22nd January 2013 at 19:48.
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    Re: Fun with the Fuji X-E1

    She wanted me to emphasize her newly painted fingernails. I forget to mention I was shooting Jpeg monochrome!

    Fuji X-E1 Leica 50mm Summicron

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  46. #1896
    Senior Member kuujinbo's Avatar
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Quote Originally Posted by ricardsonwilliams View Post

    street_20121002_5906-Edit by Ricardson Williams, on Flickr

    X-PRO1 + Helios 58mm f/2 (M42 mount)

    street_20130117_0231 by Ricardson Williams, on Flickr
    What do you use to PP? Very nice.
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  47. #1897
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    website | 500px
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  48. #1898
    Member ricardsonwilliams's Avatar
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Quote Originally Posted by kuujinbo View Post
    What do you use to PP? Very nice.
    Hi,

    I'm using now LR4+VSCO Presets most of time Tri-X.
    My Website · About Me
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  49. #1899
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    Some good looking work here...kudos to all.

    Chad

  50. #1900
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    re: Fun with the Fuji X ___!

    One from this past weekend.

    My girls (including the one way out front... she waits for no one!):

    18mm @ f8,0
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