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Raw conversion for X-Pro1

Sapphie

Member
Me too. The various issues have not yet impacted what and how I shoot enough to make me move on. Of course everyone will have their own take.
I agree, it's a great camera and system but we who are in search of the best just know it can be better. The software will get there and, soon, I think.

BTW, just to re-iterate how great this forum is. Some of the 'others', well I wish I could just ignore them ...

Lee
 

Pelao

New member
I agree, it's a great camera and system but we who are in search of the best just know it can be better. The software will get there and, soon, I think.

BTW, just to re-iterate how great this forum is. Some of the 'others', well I wish I could just ignore them ...

Lee
Yup.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
The raw processing issue with the Fuji sensor is one of the reasons I have no interest whatever in this line of cameras. I saw the same issues with the X10 model too.

I don't buy equipment based on future hopes. I buy equipment based on what it does now.
I also had my issues with the X10. And then I simply could not get hold of a X Pro 1 and so I finally skipped it. And now I am glad I could not get a chance to buy it.

Maybe in some years this system will be a leader. But it will take some time ....

Meanwhile I am happily shooting with some great cameras I already earned trust with - Olympus OMD and Nikon D800E - and soon the Leica M
 

dhsimmonds

New member
Ditto. I am amused and annoyed by threads in other forums where people that don't see the issue deny it exists or I am talking BS!

Any links to extra profiles would be appreciated Ario! Though I find the default RPP pretty accurate - I usually start at K64 too, always with WB 'As Shot'.

Surely, though, this issue will get fixed in time?

Lee
I agree totally. I had a bunch of images that were spoiled by the foliage smudging in trees etc whilst taking images with an infrared filter. The XP1 is superb for IR until you hit the RAW smudging problem. :wtf: Fortunately the JPEG (fine) images were OK.

I tried all the work-arounds to no avail.

The good news is that Capture One (my favoured raw converter program) are working on a profile for the XP1. Given the time that they have been working on it, it isn't an easy job! :rolleyes:
 

Braeside

New member
According to an interview with Fuji, Apple are also working on a raw converter as well - that's good news for a lot of people.
 

ustein

Contributing Editor
>Apple are also working on a raw converter as well - that's good news for a lot of people.

Very good news. I think we just need to be a bit patient (not my strength though).
 

monza

Active member
Hopefully Fuji is providing technical support with the same software team that developed their in-camera JPG engine, they obviously understand how to get a quality image out of the sensor.
 
I do hope that Adobe, Apple, Capture One.. will do something better than the Fuji team, the OOC jpeg is not a masterpiece of demosaicing, in my opinion.
 

rjones

New member
Most of the discussions on why one raw converter is worse/better than another for the new Fuji sensor seem a bit naive.

If one digs a little deeper (as MikeS did below), one can see how much more sophisticated the new Fuji sensor actually is, and how routine application of previous Bayer algorithms will not get the best interpretation from it (and also lead to comments such as how 'conversions of Fuji RAW files have many artifacts').

To briefly quote MikeS (from post #6, to whet your appetite; please read through the whole thread), the why behind 'why did Fuji design this sensor the way they did' and 'why is Silkypix able to have fewer artifacts', starts to make sense:

"After dozens of hours and hundreds of pages of reading, I have identified the 'smoking gun' academic paper and the relevant patent!

"'Frequency selection demosaiking: A review and a look ahead', Alleysson & Chaix de Lavarene, 2008.

"The conclusions of this article are both profound and prophetic. It states, a 'non periodic arrangement of size 6x6 chromatic samples gives the best visual result (RAW data) reconstruction...also, the signal to noise ratio with the pseudo-random arrangement is not very different than that of Bayer. But the noise in the case of a random arrangement loses its spacial coherence and becomes less visible making the appearance of the image more pleasant.'

"The paper develops the earlier idea for separation of CFA information into a luminescence image mask, (from the Green cells), and a chrominance mask of combined values for R-G and B-G. Adding these two masks together is identical to adding a traditional tricolor separation."

Original thread:
Problems RAW conversion software have with the X-Pro 1 - Fuji X Forum
 

ustein

Contributing Editor
>Most of the discussions on why one raw converter is worse/better than another for the new Fuji sensor seem a bit naive.

Stating academic papers does not help with real world existing raw converters.
 

woodyspedden

New member
>Most of the discussions on why one raw converter is worse/better than another for the new Fuji sensor seem a bit naive.

Stating academic papers does not help with real world existing raw converters.
Uwe

To me there is no doubt that, with support from Fuji, Adobe or Phase One has the capability to provide a more desirable Raw Converter (i.e. Capture One or Photoshop) which properly decodes the Fuji sensor. The fact that RPP (which is pretty much a one man operation) can do it speaks volumes.

I think the issue is that the big boys don't see Fuji as a large enough market force for them to devote the manpower to getting this done.

The rumor is that Capture One is working as we speak on a true coverter for the X1 Pro (and thus for future generation Fuji products) I hope this rumor is true because I love Capture One and if it is true and comes to market, can Adobe be far behind with Photoshop and Lightroom

There is no doubt that us early adopters are taking this camera towards where it needs to go by really pushing Fuji to get it right. The new version 2.0 goes a long way towards that goal albeit not solving the converter problem. I suspect we will see more firmware updates to continue to improve this unique camera.

Just MHO

Woody
 

rjones

New member
>Stating academic papers does not help with real world existing raw converters.
But not understanding how the sensor works will not lead to a solution. It is like complaining 'why can't I fly by flapping my arms?'. Ignorance leads to frustration. A little knowledge will reduce the frustration and stop end-users from going down wrong avenues, and eventually lead to better software.

By learning the complex situation behind the sensor's development, one can see why Fuji pursued this design, created a hardware solution, gave a reasonable short-term software fix (Silkypix), while getting something quite innovative to market fairly rapidly. They are to be commended for not being another 'me-too'.

While the existing, and comfortable, software packages may not fully extract the best from this new sensor, it is in their court (Adobe, et al) to develop more robust algorithms. Who knows, perhaps more sophisticated algorithms might even improve Bayer sensor derived data.
 

ustein

Contributing Editor
>it is in their court (Adobe, et al) to develop more robust algorithms.

Not quite. Fuji sells a camera and has no software business. If they would think only about pleasing their customers (us) they would support all software as much as they can to get the best out of this sensor. Of course I don't know whether they did just that and stumbled on the other software companies ignorance (I kind of doubt). THat Fuji seems to sell well is in our favor because these cameras cannot be anymore ignored that easily.
 
The CFA adopted by Fuji is no secret, there is nothing to understand, the problem is that apparently a demosaicing algorithm capable to render fine details without creating chroma errors has not been found yet and none of the provided compromise is, in my opinion, as good as it should be.
This is applicable to OOC jpeg, and to some extent to all the raw converters that are known to support the Fuji raw file.
Sean Reid has published a conpreehensive and well documented analysis on this subject which as been also covered by Sandy Mc Guffog in his blog.
The author of RPP has given up (so far) using any of his best performing algorithms and has provided VNG or a reduced resolution 2/3 as the only workable options.
The Author of Dcraw has done something similar, in the sense that whichever option you choose, the algorithm selection defaults back to a basic VNG.
Others such as Capture One, Apple, Raw Therapee, Iridient Raw Developer, Photivo, Photo Ninja ...have not provided a solution and in some case have explicitly declared they will not do because of the unconventional CFA.
This is not a very brilliant situation after so many months fron the launch of the Fuji X-Pro1.
May be soon the situation will change and I will be more than happy to recognize that I have been too pessimistic.
Having said that I think that, after the FW 2.0 release, the X-Pro 1 is a very nice camera with a huge, partly unexploited, potential.
 

woodyspedden

New member
The CFA adopted by Fuji is no secret, there is nothing to understand, the problem is that apparently a demosaicing algorithm capable to render fine details without creating chroma errors has not been found yet and none of the provided compromise is, in my opinion, as good as it should be.
This is applicable to OOC jpeg, and to some extent to all the raw converters that are known to support the Fuji raw file.
Sean Reid has published a conpreehensive and well documented analysis on this subject which as been also covered by Sandy Mc Guffog in his blog.
The author of RPP has given up (so far) using any of his best performing algorithms and has provided VNG or a reduced resolution 2/3 as the only workable options.
The Author of Dcraw has done something similar, in the sense that whichever option you choose, the algorithm selection defaults back to a basic VNG.
Others such as Capture One, Apple, Raw Therapee, Iridient Raw Developer, Photivo, Photo Ninja ...have not provided a solution and in some case have explicitly declared they will not do because of the unconventional CFA.
This is not a very brilliant situation after so many months fron the launch of the Fuji X-Pro1.
May be soon the situation will change and I will be more than happy to recognize that I have been too pessimistic.
Having said that I think that, after the FW 2.0 release, the X-Pro 1 is a very nice camera with a huge, partly unexploited, potential.
Are you using the latest version of RPP?
 
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