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Fuji X-T1 - Greens and jpg files - help please?

jonoslack

Active member
HI There
I'm sure someone knows the best settings for jpgs.
I've been using various settings but I've found greens (grass especially) to be rather smeary in the jpgs.
I've turned off noise reduction - but I'm not sure which is the best jpg setting to use, and whether there is a way to stop this.

Of course, I'll shoot RAW later (when it's supported by Aperture), but in the meantime I'd rather not resort to DNG conversion and Lightroom.

Any ideas what the best settings would be?

Thanks in advance
 

archiM44

Member
Unfortunately there is no way to turn off in camera noise reduction entirely and even at -2 it is objectionable and to my mind makes the JPG's unusable. I even suspect there is some in-camera NR in the RAF files.
This applies to the newer sensor cameras (X100s, X=E2 and X-T1) My earlier cameras did not have it nearly as much.
I am presently using Irridient Developer which does a truly excellent job, the latest Adobe Camera Raw from Adobe Labs which does a rather decent conversion and am awaiting the support in Capture One Pro which is my developer of choice.
I have contacted Fuji home office requesting a firmware update allowing NR to be completely turned off.
 

TimWright

Member
One thing you can try is by shooting a raw file then use the in camera raw converter to create a JPEG. This will allow you to try various settings to see what you like best. You can try different film types, sharpening, NR etc
 

jonoslack

Active member
Okay, this is serious. Really nasty smudginess, but not just in JPG files, also in DNG files created from Adobe DNG converter and viewed in Lightroom. Grass is the worst culprit, but it also happens in hair - seems to be everywhere.

Iridient is better, but there are still smudgy greens and strangely patterned road surfaces

:wtf::eek:

Any suggestions please?
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Different camera?

This has been an ongoing concern with the X Trans color and RAW processing from the beginning...Sean Reid was one of the first to describe it...seemed to be improving and C1 may have a decent algorithm if they will update for the X-T1.

There seems to be no small camera devoid of some compromise...your EM1 or your A7 may be best at the present time....but this sounds serious. I was unable to pick one of these up this week, will wait to see how this plays out.

Regards,

Bob
 

Grayhand

Well-known member
This has been an issue at least since the X-E1 with different Raw-converters.
I normally use only C1, but to solve this problem I am now using Photoninja as an plug in Raw converter for Photoshop CC for my Raw files from the X-E1.
For me, problem solved!
Works really well.

Ray
 

Braeside

New member
Jono let me just say that my only experience is with the X-Pro 1 X Trans sensor, and I recall that until Aperture supported the raw format that the JPG OOC were better for detail in the grass and distant foliage than the Adobe raw was. Then I used AccuRaw by Sandy and that was able to get the best out of the raw files, though you still had to be careful to reach a balance between artefacts and detail. In the end I just stopped worrying about it and enjoyed the photos which print great and at look great at normal screen resolutions, i.e. not pixel peeping which makes you blind, the calendar I printed came out very well.

I find generally now that Aperture supports the raw files for the XP1 that it works for me. In some special cases I may use Accuraw and I may try Iridient as it has had some good reviews.

I am a bit worried that reports indicate that the XT1 may be worse than the earlier cameras in the smudging department, but perhaps it is too early to say until raw developers catch up.

However if you end up finding the XT1 not to your tastes, I could give it a good home...
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi there David
I'm not a serious pixel peeper myself, but these look awful, artifacts everywhere on Iridient and smudginess in LR. Comparing them to E-M1 files isn't funny.
Maybe Aperture will do better....... But when? I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and have a try with Silkypix :(.
I've emailed Fuji, I can't believe that this isn't going to be a really big deal, so maybe they'll sort it with a firmware update. I hope I can find a solution because I really love the camera!
Thank you for the offer! I'll keep it in mind, but I'm not in a hurry. One thing is that I won't be buying any more lenses yet.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
I believe the sensor in the X-T1 and X-E2 are the same. However you can run into smearing issues for sure.

I always shoot raw +jpg fine. As already mentioned, you can't turn off the noise reduction as 0 is "standard". However I don't believe that the raws have noise reduction turned on.

Here are some of the solutions I have found.

LR 5.3 I don't believe supports the X-T1 file but I have not tried the latest ACR, as it might. It's downloadable from the Adobe main site. I know that Adobe added some new profiles for Fuji, hopefully they added support for the X-T1.

In LR 5.3 with X-E2 files, I have found that the key is to minimize sharpening as LR can quickly create a plasticity look to the files and can cause problems in the greens, however all the other image tools in LR really are a plus so I tend to start there.

Capture One 7.2 may now support the X-E2, but does not support the X-T1, and on X-E1 files it's OK, but I don't feel it gets the same level of detail out of the greens.

Iridient, to me is a overall disappointment. Their toolset is very limited IMO. However they still have a very good raw conversion especially with the deconvolution sharpening. But they have native support for the X-T1.

Photoninja, has support for for the X-T1 and can produce a pretty good result, however you do have to watch out in the conversion process as the files can easily take on a hardened look, as if too much clarity was applied.

My workflow right now in the X-E2, ( I only shoot the jpg so you can get the greater amount of magnification on image preview in camera) is start in LR but just do a small amount of sharpening. I will then sharpen the image with Focus Magic or Topaz (both of which use deconvolution). This seems to help bring out the best in the files.

With jpgs, you have to balance out the noise reduction with some in camera sharpening, I use the first level.

Paul C.
 
Okay, this is serious. Really nasty smudginess, but not just in JPG files, also in DNG files created from Adobe DNG converter and viewed in Lightroom. Grass is the worst culprit, but it also happens in hair - seems to be everywhere.

Iridient is better, but there are still smudgy greens and strangely patterned road surfaces

:wtf::eek:

Any suggestions please?
Jono, I have spent a lot of time on the X-Trans files, testing every SW I am aware of, but the problem associated to demosaicing this crazy color patterrn for me is still unresolved. It does not happen every time but when color smudging is present in a pic it is almost impossible for me to completely remove it, no matter which SW a I am using with any setting combination I am able to imagine. It does happen in the foliage but also in other circumstances, for instance when there is some sharp color transition (white letters on a dark background are usually heavily contaminated by the background color). Every known demosaicing algorithm dealing with this unconventional color pattern is quite prone to errors, the errors can be filtered off but filtering the errors the image is getting softer, and recovering the softness by sharpening is sometime even worst. Achieving the best compromise between minimizing the color artifacts and saving the details is quite challenging and the acceptability of the result is very persnal and image dependant. Since I guess you are an Aperture user, I suggest you to try AccuRaw for demosaicing only and export to Aperture with the sharpening zeroed. AccuRaw allows you to choose the amount of filtering you want by acting on three dedicated slides.In Aperture you can then season to taste , may be sharpening in the way suggested here: Processing Fuji X-Trans Files in Aperture | The Aperture Blog
 

Braeside

New member
Gosh Jono, it does sound bad from what you describe, certainly I get nothing like that with the XP1. Perhaps a photo here to show what you mean would help.
 

Sapphie

Member
Thomas Fitzgerald also has some excellent X-trans presets for LR 5, though X-T1 not supported yet. I also support the use of Photo Ninja. In my experience, the 'water colour' effect does seem to vary between images and for me seems to affect more distant detail in landscapes such as foliage, but not exclusively. Sometimes I seem to 'see it' more or less on different days for the same image, LOL. Too much pixel-peeping ...As David says, a picture would help and if you can post a RAW somewhere, happy to 'have a go'.

P.S. There used to be some issue with some weird patterning with DNGs produced by Adobe so maybe this is an issue still.

Lee
 

scho

Well-known member
This was the reason I gave up on the Fuji cameras earlier (had Xp-1 and X-E1). I was able to get usable images using AccuRaw later, but I didn't want to leave my LR workflow. So far I haven't run into this issue again with my X100S, but no opportunity yet to shoot green grass.:)
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Jono,

here are four shot with green in it, all OOC JPEGs from the XE2, all imported in Aperture and exported for reducing size.

I cannot see any artifacts, maybe you do? I can of course also send you the original JPEGs if you want to try.

Peter
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi there
Paul, Ario, Lee, David, Carl
Thanks for chipping in, at least it seems I'm not mad! The grass around here is a particular vivid green at the moment, which is clearly exacerbating things.

I must do some work now, but I'll post samples and perhaps a couple of RAF files later on.

It sounds like Aperture might end up being the right solution..... When they decode to support the camera!

Thanks again. More later
 

jonoslack

Active member
Jono,

here are four shot with green in it, all OOC JPEGs from the XE2, all imported in Aperture and exported for reducing size.

I cannot see any artifacts, maybe you do? I can of course also send you the original JPEGs if you want to try.

Peter
Hi there Peter
How do you have the Jpg setting and film mode?
I'd love to see them, could you zip em up and send them to me via wetransfer.com? (Jonathan at slack dot co dot uk)
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Jono,

files are on their way. I had no special JPEG settings, Film mode for the Jan. 2014 ones were if I remember right N-high and the one from Feb 2014 is S.

Hope that helps

Peter
 

retow

Member
The watercoloring effect is a known problem of the X-trans sensor, not really making the Fujis ideal landscape cameras. The main reason I got rid of everything with this sensor. I recently reprocessed a few files with Photo Ninja and it does a much better job with the X-trans output than Aperture.
 
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