X-Pro2

[Lars]

So the X-Pro2 is really expensive per gram.

 

[Vivek]

Jorgen,

A7 II + 55/1.8 can also be bought for < $2,000.

(You yourself have posted the plummeting values of Sony cams. Do not go by debut list prices)

So the X-Pro2 is really expensive per gram.

It is just expensive.

 

[iiiNelson]

Just for fun on a Sunday morning, 4 "sufficient" 24MP cameras with their more or less 50mm equivalent lenses:

Fuji X-Pro2 with Fujinon 35mm f/1.4
$1,700 + $599 = $2,299
495 grams + 187 grams = 682 grams

Sony A7 II with Zeiss 55mm f/1.8
$1,698 + $998 = $2,696
599 grams + 281 grams = 880 grams

Nikon D7200 with Nikkor 35mm f/1.8 DX
$1,097 + $197 = $1,294
765 grams + 200 grams = 965 grams

Nikon D750 with Nikkor 50mm f/1.8
$1,997 + $217 = $2,214
840 grams + 186 grams = 1,026 grams

When travelling, more extra batteries would add to the weight of the mirrorless cameras. This is a mix of full frame and 1.5x crop sensor cameras, which some may describe as comparing bananas to papaya. However, with current sensor technology, that isn't very relevant to me anymore, except when I need a higher pixel count or extreme DR. For the Fuji, there's also a very good 56mm f/1.2 that takes care of some of the differences. I also assume that the Fuji is competitive in the DR area. Fuji cameras have a tradition for being just that.

Although this is just a snapshot of the market, and mostly with models relevant to myself and not necessarily to others, there are some interesting parameters being brought to the table here. The X-Pro2, which is a very well equipped camera, Fuji's new top model and the only one featuring a hybrid viewfinder is relatively competitively priced, and although not particularly compact, much more lightweight than the competition listed here. In Thailand, Fuji is already market leader among cameras with interchangeable lenses, not only among the mirrorless crowd, and I can see a lot of DSLR users wanting to try this new model.

As for myself, I won't dump my Nikon gear just yet, but will probably postpone the D500, which is kind of overkill for what I currently do anyway, and try out the Fuji as a travel camera instead.

I believe the Sony A6000 would be a more relevant direct competitor to the X-Pro2 and the "pro" level Micro 4/3 Panasonic GX8 or Olympus E-M5II/E-M1 would be more relevant as well even if not 24 megapixel cameras (along with the Nikon D7200.)

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Just for fun on a Sunday morning, 4 "sufficient" 24MP cameras with their more or less 50mm equivalent lenses:

Fuji X-Pro2 with Fujinon 35mm f/1.4
$1,700 + $599 = $2,299
495 grams + 187 grams = 682 grams

Sony A7 II with Zeiss 55mm f/1.8
$1,698 + $998 = $2,696
599 grams + 281 grams = 880 grams

Nikon D7200 with Nikkor 35mm f/1.8 DX
$1,097 + $197 = $1,294
765 grams + 200 grams = 965 grams

Nikon D750 with Nikkor 50mm f/1.8
$1,997 + $217 = $2,214
840 grams + 186 grams = 1,026 grams

When travelling, more extra batteries would add to the weight of the mirrorless cameras. This is a mix of full frame and 1.5x crop sensor cameras, which some may describe as comparing bananas to papaya. However, with current sensor technology, that isn't very relevant to me anymore, except when I need a higher pixel count or extreme DR. For the Fuji, there's also a very good 56mm f/1.2 that takes care of some of the differences. I also assume that the Fuji is competitive in the DR area. Fuji cameras have a tradition for being just that.

Although this is just a snapshot of the market, and mostly with models relevant to myself and not necessarily to others, there are some interesting parameters being brought to the table here. The X-Pro2, which is a very well equipped camera, Fuji's new top model and the only one featuring a hybrid viewfinder is relatively competitively priced, and although not particularly compact, much more lightweight than the competition listed here. In Thailand, Fuji is already market leader among cameras with interchangeable lenses, not only among the mirrorless crowd, and I can see a lot of DSLR users wanting to try this new model.

As for myself, I won't dump my Nikon gear just yet, but will probably postpone the D500, which is kind of overkill for what I currently do anyway, and try out the Fuji as a travel camera instead.

I believe the Sony A6000 would be a more relevant direct competitor to the X-Pro2 and the "pro" level Micro 4/3 Panasonic GX8 or Olympus E-M5II/E-M1 would be more relevant as well even if not 24 megapixel cameras (along with the Nikon D7200.)

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Jorgen,

A7 II + 55/1.8 can also be bought for < $2,000.

(You yourself have posted the plummeting values of Sony cams. Do not go by debut list prices)

While Sony cameras lose value faster than most, any camera can be bought cheaper than the advertised price, but you do have a point. The Sony A7 also suffers from the expensive/heavy lens, but that is what you get when buying from a supplier that doesn't see providing a complete lens line-up as high priority. In that respect, Fuji is really good.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I believe the Sony A6000 would be a more relevant direct competitor to the X-Pro2 and the "pro" level Micro 4/3 Panasonic GX8 or Olympus E-M5II/E-M1 would be more relevant as well even if not 24 megapixel cameras (along with the Nikon D7200.)

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I believe the Sony A6000 would be a more relevant direct competitor to the X-Pro2 and the "pro" level Micro 4/3 Panasonic GX8 or Olympus E-M5II/E-M1 would be more relevant as well even if not 24 megapixel cameras (along with the Nikon D7200.)

I guess the A6000 would easily win both the size, weight and price competition, but I find the ergonomics awful even after Sony standards and high ISO performance unacceptable, around 1 stop worse than the D7200. For me, it would never qualify as a main camera. All of the others could. The D7200 is indeed 24MP btw.

As for m4/3, apart from not being 24MP, and in most cases only 16MP, they are challenged when it comes to high ISO. Apart from that, both the E-M1 and the GH4 would be obvious candidates.

I've added price and weight of the A6000 to the list. Here's the size comparison with the X-Pro2. The size difference isn't as big as I had expected:

It's interesting also to notice that the m4/3 cameras are neither smaller nor significantly lighter than the Fuji. The Panasonic combo is actually heavier, but that includes a much larger battery than the other mirrorless cameras.

Be aware also that some of these cameras (both of the Nikons and the A6000) have a maximum shutter speed of 1/4000s, while the rest manage 1/8000s (physical shutter). The Fuji is the only one offering deep RAW buffer in addition to a rather fast frame rate at 8fps.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Here's a whole bunch of videos. The marketing department has really pulled all the stops.

http://fujifilm-x.com/ja/cameras/x-pro2/?_ga=1.231277599.1465491013.1449744679

 

[UHDR]

A6000 + 35mm FE 2.8 is one mighty compact combo. high iso performance can compensate for loss of light but smaller glass means super fast AF. and of course there's the zeiss look :grin:
there only a few things missing: EVF not as high res as others, no level guage built-in, strong AA filter means final image just doesnt quite feels as sharp as say fuji files.

looking at X-pro 2 specs give me good insight what XT2 will be like. i might hold off with A6100 since i already have lens for both system :grin:

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

A6000 + 35mm FE 2.8 is one mighty compact combo. high iso performance can compensate for loss of light but smaller glass means super fast AF.

While that combo would be very light and very compact, there's no way it could compete with any of the X-Pro2/35mm combinations in low light or for shallow DOF. The A6000 is already a stop worse then the D7200 at high ISO, and it would be fair to expect the Fuji to be even better than the Nikon, although nothing has been proven yet. Then, the Fuji 35mm lenses are f/1.4 and f/2.0, which means that the A6000 combo would be 2-4 stops worse off for low light photography than the X-Pro2 combos.

The 35mm FE f/2.8 is an $800 lens. The Fujis are $600 for the f/1.4 and $400 for the f/2.0. The price advantage of the Sony disappears rather quickly when the lenses come into play.

The Fuji 35mm f/2.0 is also weather sealed, as is the camera.

 

[Vivek]

Jorgen, Do not go by the list prces of the Sony lenses in the FS section here. no one buys them at those prices.

The Fuji 35mm lenses are far superior to the Sony/zony ones. no doubt about that.

 

[ptomsu]

The Fuji 35mm lenses are far superior to the Sony/zony ones. no doubt about that.

I would quite agree with that! Fuji lenses are even better in many cases than the Sony/Zeiss glass, which is a real achievement. But no wonder as Fuji also builds the lenses for the Hasselblad digital cameras

 

[bipbip]

Warning: Reading of the review may damage your wallet!

I'll still blame you for it Jorgen.
I use the RX1RM2 most of the time now (it's in my pocket before I leave the house/hotel) but thanks to you I'm seriously considering the X-Pro2 with a permanently attached 56mm to balance the other pocket ...

 

[iiiNelson]

I guess the A6000 would easily win both the size, weight and price competition, but I find the ergonomics awful even after Sony standards and high ISO performance unacceptable, around 1 stop worse than the D7200. For me, it would never qualify as a main camera. All of the others could. The D7200 is indeed 24MP btw.

As for m4/3, apart from not being 24MP, and in most cases only 16MP, they are challenged when it comes to high ISO. Apart from that, both the E-M1 and the GH4 would be obvious candidates.

I've added price and weight of the A6000 to the list. Here's the size comparison with the X-Pro2. The size difference isn't as big as I had expected:

It's interesting also to notice that the m4/3 cameras are neither smaller nor significantly lighter than the Fuji. The Panasonic combo is actually heavier, but that includes a much larger battery than the other mirrorless cameras.

Be aware also that some of these cameras (both of the Nikons and the A6000) have a maximum shutter speed of 1/4000s, while the rest manage 1/8000s (physical shutter). The Fuji is the only one offering deep RAW buffer in addition to a rather fast frame rate at 8fps.

I was identifying the GX8 more on the "rangefinder" style and the newest 20.3MP sensor. Of course if you need the video abilities then the GH4 would be a better choice more than likely. Otherwise I think the GX8 seems to be at the pinnacle of Micro 4/3 sensors for stills as of today. This seems to be more in line with the focus of the X-Pro 2. Ultimate still performance for Fuji bodies.

Naturally the newest high-end Sony APS-C mirrorless body will compete more favorably with the Fuji X-Pro 2 as the A6000 is about 18 months to 2 years old I believe and most reviewers pick it as the mirrorless camera with the best sensor and AF tracking performance prior to the A7R II.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

There's so much to like about this camera, I could make liking it a full time activity

I've looked through all of the videos on the Japanese Fuji website that I linked to earlier, and I can safely say that I haven't seen so much photographic goodness used in the marketing of a new camera ever. Fuji could name this body "Joy of Photography", because that is what it looks like. I can't wait to try it out.

 

[Vivek]

I would quite agree with that! Fuji lenses are even better in many cases than the Sony/Zeiss glass, which is a real achievement.

The Sony/Zony lens prices have to come down by at least 50% IMO for what they are worth. If you factor in the QC issues, knock another 25% off.

But for adaptable lenses and cheap FF bodies, Sony would be dead.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

The Sony/Zony lens prices have to come down by at least 50% IMO for what they are worth. If you factor in the QC issues, knock another 25% off.

One of the things that impresses me the most about the Fuji X-range is how they have handled lens development. After 4 years, they have something that resembles a complete range of high quality glass for anything except the most specialised needs. But then of course, this company is built upon a passion for photography. Although it's not nearly their biggest or most profitable business area anymore, it's what they started with and something that is apparently important for their company image.

 

[bab]

The camera is no doubt going to be a winner for Fuji and the fact they introduced the XPRO-2 at a price appx $1000.00 less than it could have been sold for in a better economy is a great marketing move. At the current price it makes perfect sense to purchase two bodies this allows the photographer a much more fluid image making experience.
From the mechanical side the camera will function as easily as a point and shoot but with the ability to make very quick changes on the fly without digging to deep in to menus. On the IQ side I have no doubt Fuji will provide us with excellent files that will be or can be manipulated just as well as any other manufactures offerings. Is it a PRO camera? They call it XPRO-2.
If Fuji is selling this system to enthusiasts and amateur photographers then the collection of reviews, videos and initial bunch of photographers that actually had the camera since last October-November did a great job of describing their experience with the XPro-2 and or a new lens. However in no way did any of the videos from these reviewers or any hands on write ups give Fiju back up to claim a clean professional marketing campaign aimed to entice wedding photographers for EX. to switch camera systems.
I'm just saying the Fuji live blogging event from Tokyo that I watched was nice but it was far from a Steve Jobs presentation.
Having been to the midtown Fuji store and spending time in the place the attention to detail in this space and the marketing efforts are astonishing if your ever around plan a visit it's well worth it. Fuji its to bad your selection of representatives (not all) and your marketing efforts (not all) worldwide aren't at that level!

 

[ptomsu]

I was identifying the GX8 more on the "rangefinder" style and the newest 20.3MP sensor. Of course if you need the video abilities then the GH4 would be a better choice more than likely. Otherwise I think the GX8 seems to be at the pinnacle of Micro 4/3 sensors for stills as of today. This seems to be more in line with the focus of the X-Pro 2. Ultimate still performance for Fuji bodies.

Naturally the newest high-end Sony APS-C mirrorless body will compete more favorably with the Fuji X-Pro 2 as the A6000 is about 18 months to 2 years old I believe and most reviewers pick it as the mirrorless camera with the best sensor and AF tracking performance prior to the A7R II.

The GX8, as well as all to be announced top end m43 cameras, like the new PenF or later this year the EM1markII will "only" have a 20MP sensor and this in m43 format. Needless to say that the XPro2 with it's 24MP APSC sensor will smoke all of them easily, I do not have the slightest doubt. Further Fuji cameras to follow later this year like the XT2 will have the same sensor with probably some add ons and further benefits.

This means that Fuji is clearly ahead of the complete m43 bandwagon already now and will most likely stay so in the years to come. Add to this the pretty complete range of high end lenses specifically developed for this cameras, especially the new 100-400, and there are not even the arguments of more complete lens range compared to m43 holding up any longer. Even if some argue that the XPro2 does not support 4K, this is only true for now and could easily change, as the new processor and the complete hardware infrastructure of the camera including sensor is capable of 4K, which makes me almost sure we will see this feature in any upcoming XT2 and very likely as FW upgrade in the XPro2 soon after.

Hard to withstand the latest Fuji offerings ....

 

[ptomsu]

There's so much to like about this camera, I could make liking it a full time activity

I've looked through all of the videos on the Japanese Fuji website that I linked to earlier, and I can safely say that I haven't seen so much photographic goodness used in the marketing of a new camera ever. Fuji could name this body "Joy of Photography", because that is what it looks like. I can't wait to try it out.

Really great videos and stories, but this is not only true for the newly released XPro2, they are doing this already since long time. Have a look here:

http://fujifilm-x.com/en/x-stories/

Perfect advertisement and really cool

 

[ptomsu]

Just found this great review of the XPro2, enjoy ....

http://aphotocontributor.typepad.com/aphotocontributor/2016/01/my-friend-leo.html

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Another review:

http://www.prophotonut.com/2016/01/15/fuji-x-pro2-review-and-high-res-sample-shots/

All these fantastic photos shown, taken with a camera that isn't even on the market yet is a strike of genius by Fuji. It shows what really matters: that photographers are able to take great images with this apparatus. And, very importantly, it shows that Fuji has the support of and is trusted by a large number of great photographers, something that isn't obvious for younger people who became involved in photography after Velvia.