Mac Pro 2.8 My Oh My...

[Sean_Reid]

I realize that a lot of the excitement today, quite understandably, comes from the new M8 announcements. But since I deal with new cameras and lenses all the time, my excitement today is about my Mac Pro that just arrived.

After I started using the MacBook Pro 17" (this one a different example which came with Leopard - long story) I realized that what I wanted to do was to go back to Macintosh entirely (last one was a Mac Plus!). So I ordered a Mac Pro 2.8 and the truck rolled up a little while ago. I bought the quad core because that's plenty of speed for me and the Mac Pro is expensive enough as is. Before this I had always built my own higher-end PCs and I could have done that again for nearly half the cost of the Mac (reusing my existing good quality cases, power supplies, drives, etc.). But, among other things, the fact that 32 bit XP or Vista can only address 4 GB RAM (a bit less actually), combined with the fact that 64 bit Windows doesn't work with many of the drivers I need for various things, really swung me towards Mac. I love that OS-X is and has been 64-bit.

"Other World Computing" is selling tested, Apple approved, lifetime guaranteed RAM and I bought two 2 GB sticks (with heat sinks) for $230.00. I'm just waiting for them to ship. I'll make do with 6 GB for now and go to 8 later on.

Anyway, I need to finish up this Canon G9 review before I start taking things apart, swapping drives, etc. but I'm struck by one thing I must comment on.

Apple's industrial design is beautiful.

The Mac Pro is the most beautiful desktop computer I have ever seen and the Macbook Pro is the most beautiful notebook I've ever seen. They're a joy for the eyes and the hands. Does this matter to function? Not exactly... But we're photographers and *our* world is intensely visual. Someone like myself spends a lot of time with computers and since I have to look at them for hours at a time, I like it when one is easy on the eyes.

Anyway, I'm just enjoying being an enthusiastic re-newbie in the Mac world.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Jack]

Welcome to the dark side Sean!

Yes, the Mac Pro case is a thing of beauty for those of us coming in from the build-them-ourselves PC world! Four SATA drive bays with silicone drive cushions and slide-in convenience, coupled with slide-in RAM drawers...

Something you should know in addition: On the MB just behind the CPU fan shroud are two more SATA2 connector points(!) These allow you to add two more SATA2 drives directly to the MB, bypassing the use of an added PCIe card (or the buss) altogether! OWC sells an extension plate that fits into the free card slot and converts the two internal SATA ports to external eSATA connector ports. Bottom line is I now run 6 drives internally.

Also, if you get a .Mac account, then you can sync all your settings, preferences, dock, etc between the two machines so they both always parrot each other --- very cool feature for me.

Cheers,

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Welcome back my friend it is a place where you smile everyday when you go to use it. LOL

I love my MacPro. I just put in all new hard drives and running like jet on steroids. But much prettier. LOL

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Welcome to the dark side Sean!

Yes, the Mac Pro case is a thing of beauty for those of us coming in from the build-them-ourselves PC world! Four SATA drive bays with silicone drive cushions and slide-in convenience, coupled with slide-in RAM drawers...

Something you should know in addition: On the MB just behind the CPU fan shroud are two more SATA2 connector points(!) These allow you to add two more SATA2 drives directly to the MB, bypassing the use of an added PCIe card (or the buss) altogether! OWC sells an extension plate that fits into the free card slot and converts the two internal SATA ports to external eSATA connector ports. Bottom line is I now run 6 drives internally.

Cheers,

Me too we are just pigs, 6 internal hard drives. Amazing


Jack would you ban me from posting , I need to go pack and this forum won't release me. LOL

 

[Jack]

I put you on global ignore until we return from Moab LOLOLOLOLOL!

 

[Maggie O]

Man, y'all are giving me yet more G.A.S.!

 

[Sean_Reid]

Welcome to the dark side Sean!

Yes, the Mac Pro case is a thing of beauty for those of us coming in from the build-them-ourselves PC world! Four SATA drive bays with silicone drive cushions and slide-in convenience, coupled with slide-in RAM drawers...

Something you should know in addition: On the MB just behind the CPU fan shroud are two more SATA2 connector points(!) These allow you to add two more SATA2 drives directly to the MB, bypassing the use of an added PCIe card (or the buss) altogether! OWC sells an extension plate that fits into the free card slot and converts the two internal SATA ports to external eSATA connector ports. Bottom line is I now run 6 drives internally.

Also, if you get a .Mac account, then you can sync all your settings, preferences, dock, etc between the two machines so they both always parrot each other --- very cool feature for me.

Cheers,

Hi Jack,

Thanks. Yes, I read about those ports but getting to them seems to involve a lot of disassembly. Now, I've stripped PCs down to the case many times but for now I have this feeling that I don't want to take the Pro apart (just install memory and two RE2 500GB drives).

So what I did for my backup drive connections was to order the Addonics e-sata card which should be here in a few days.
http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/addonics/adsa3gpx1-2em/

I thought long and hard about just using the FW 800 connections but 3 Gbs is really nice for the amount of data I move around.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Sean_Reid]

Welcome back my friend it is a place where you smile everyday when you go to use it. LOL

I love my MacPro. I just put in all new hard drives and running like jet on steroids. But much prettier. LOL

Hi Guy,

Thanks, I've come to like the WD RE2 500 GB drives because they really seem to be server class. I also like to have some of my drives out of the computer and in fan cooled cases.

Just out of curiosity, where did you guys mount those other two drives?

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Sean_Reid]

Man, y'all are giving me yet more G.A.S.!

If its any consolation, this is the first new desktop I've added in several years.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Jack]

I thought long and hard about just using the FW 800 connections but 3 Gbs is really nice for the amount of data I move around.

Cheers,

Sean

Well FWIW, SUSTAINED read/write speeds are not that significantly different for FW800 and eSATA... I get a maximum sustained txfr rate of just over 100 MB/s with eSATA at the fast side of the drives, tapering off to around 70 MB/s at the slow end. Via eSATA it takes me about 2 hours to move 500G of data on these new drives. Using the same drive on FW 800, it takes about 50% longer, or 3 hours to move the 500G.

Secondly, I don't know if you lose speed across the PCIe bus? And, it isn't that big of deal to add that adapter as you can access the ports without disassembling anything, just use some needle-nose pliers to plug in the connectors. Also, on the new boxes, you do not need to remove the RAM bay since the shroud over the CPU's just un-snaps off, then the fan housing comes out by removing one or two screws depending on configuration.

 

[Sean_Reid]

Interestingly, I just ran hardware tests off the install CD and my Mac thinks it has two processors. In my dreams they accidentally installed both. More likely, the motherboard is set up to handle two processors which means I can add one down the line if I ever have the desire. That's quite nice.

I figured that hooking up the e-sata ports required disassembling much of the computer based on this:
http://www.newertech.com/Static/articles/article_macenstein_eSATA.html

Did you not have to do all that to hook up yours? If so, going directly to those ports probably is the way to go. Again, I've done all this with PCs for a long time but I'm feeling a little more "hands off" about the Mac.

Here's a review of the card:
http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/addonics/adsa3gpx1-2em/

I'm running extended hardware tests while I finish up this review on the "old" computer. Then maybe tonight I can start putting things together.

Oh....question....

Which way do you prefer to format drives for Mac? What is journaled?

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Jack]

Interestingly, I just ran hardware tests off the install CD and my Mac thinks it has two processors. In my dreams they accidentally installed both. More likely, the motherboard is set up to handle two processors which means I can add one down the line if I ever have the desire. That's quite nice.

I figured that hooking up the e-sata ports required disassembling much of the computer based on this:
http://www.newertech.com/Static/articles/article_macenstein_eSATA.html

Did you not have to do all that to hook up yours? If so, going directly to those ports probably is the way to go. Again, I've done all this with PCs for a long time but I'm feeling a little more "hands off" about the Mac.

Here's a review of the card:
http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/addonics/adsa3gpx1-2em/

I'm running extended hardware tests while I finish up this review on the "old" computer. Then maybe tonight I can start putting things together.

Oh....question....

Which way do you prefer to format drives for Mac? What is journaled?

Cheers,

Sean

Hi Sean,

Your system could have two 2-core processors instead of one 4-core? If you go into "About This Mac" in the Apple menu and hit "More info" you should see all the specs. Mine shows a processor name as "Quad-Core Intel Xeon" ; "Processor Speed 3.2 GHz" ; "Number of Processors 2" and "Total Cores 8".

Yes you can get the cables attached if you are careful with a pair of needle-nose pliers. Just pay attention to the orientation of the sockets in the instructions that come with the unit and make sure the cables match --- L-connector pointing UP on the top socket, straight connector oriented in the opposite direction on the bottom socket.

Journaling just means the drive can mount a bootable copy of the OS, but in later versions of OSX it apparently is also used to keep an error log that can help repair any drive in the event of a failure. Hence, I run everything as "OSX extended, journaled." You may find a few sites recommend leaving journaling "off" for media drives --- I suspect this is because a gig or so of space is reserved at the fastest part of the drive for Critical OS files and journaling, and therefore not available for media storage --- but even some of those have reversed their position on that. My smallest drives are 500G and all my images are on 1TB drives, so the loss of space is of little consequence to me, especially if it can help with a recovery down the road.

PS: IF you use both PC and Mac, you may want to store your image files on drives formatted FAT since BOTH OS's can read and write to them. Alternatively, I decided to use Mac formatting and share my image drives over a network if a PC needed to see them. And BTW, a Gig-lan network is a VERY fast and convenient way to move PC data files over to Mac without a lot of hassle .

Cheers,

 

[Sean_Reid]

Hi Jack

" Your system could have two 2-core processors instead of one 4-core? If you go into "About This Mac" in the Apple menu and hit "More info" you should see all the specs. Mine shows a processor name as "Quad-Core Intel Xeon" ; "Processor Speed 3.2 GHz" ; "Number of Processors 2" and "Total Cores 8". "

No the system is a 2.8 and all the 2.8s are four core. I suspect that the second reported processor is really just a slot for a second processor but I'll check later on.

"Yes you can get the cables attached if you are careful with a pair of needle-nose pliers. Just pay attention to the orientation of the sockets in the instructions that come with the unit and make sure the cables match --- L-connector pointing UP on the top socket, straight connector oriented in the opposite direction on the bottom socket."

OK, cool, so you didn't have to uninstall anything? That would be great.

"Journaling just means the drive can mount a bootable copy of the OS, but in later versions of OSX it apparently is also used to keep an error log that can help repair any drive in the event of a failure"

Ok, that's good to know, thanks.

"Hence, I run everything as "OSX extended, journaled."

That's likely what I'll do then. Thanks very much for that information.

"You may find a few sites recommend leaving journaling "off" for media drives --- I suspect this is because a gig or so of space is reserved at the fastest part of the drive for Critical OS files and journaling, and therefore not available for media storage --- but even some of those have reversed their position on that. My smallest drives are 500G and all my images are on 1TB drives, so the loss of space is of little consequence to me, especially if it can help with a recovery down the road."

I can afford to lose a gig on the drives to gain that benefit.

"PS: IF you use both PC and Mac, you may want to store your image files on drives formatted FAT since BOTH OS's can read and write to them. Alternatively, I decided to use Mac formatting and share my image drives over a network if a PC needed to see them. And BTW, a Gig-lan network is a VERY fast and convenient way to move PC data files over to Mac without a lot of hassle "

That one I knew. When I was thinking, earlier on, of running both OSs then I was thinking about formatting everything as FAT 32. But then, I would have needed to do all this partitioning to get each one down to 32 GB and then that would have meant a gazillion drive letters to keep track of. Now things are simpler, Mac Pro and Macbook Pro. My wife, also a photographer, is still on Windows for now but she and I rarely need to share files and I already have a wireless network set up for that. For infrequent use, it will do the trick.

I appreciate the help Jack.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Sean_Reid]

OK, when I check the system from within Leopard it reports one quad processor, as expected. But when I checked using the hardware test command from the system disk, I get a report of two processors. So, this does indeed suggest that these new Mac Pro computers are all using the same MoBo (which would be cost and production effective for Apple) but that the single simply have an empty processor slot. If thats true, its cool because it should mean that I can add another processor down the line if I feel the desire.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Sean that is the exact cable both Jack and i put in our machines . Not hard either BTW . Than i bought a 2 drive E-sata box for the two externals

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/MESATATBEK/

or for a single drive i have this also a quad port

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/MEFW924AL1K/

 

[Sean_Reid]

Hi Guy,

So you did it without removing anything inside the computer? If yes, that sounds cool and I'll probably end up doing it.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Sean_Reid]

Ah Ha! I just got a little flashlight in there and I now see exactly what you mean, Jack and Guy. I do think that I could get that mounted without removing anything. Excellent tip guys! I had initially ruled that idea out because I didn't want to take the new computer apart. I'm going to order that Newer Tech cable kit and just send the PCI card back after it arrives. This is great.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[etrigan63]

OK, when I check the system from within Leopard it reports one quad processor, as expected. But when I checked using the hardware test command from the system disk, I get a report of two processors. So, this does indeed suggest that these new Mac Pro computers are all using the same MoBo (which would be cost and production effective for Apple) but that the single simply have an empty processor slot. If thats true, its cool because it should mean that I can add another processor down the line if I feel the desire.

Cheers,

Sean

Be aware Sean that adding a second CPU has its own issues. The first is the stepping of the CPU. Intel will make revisions to its microcode base and issue that as a new stepping of the same CPU. When you are setting up a dual processor system you want to make sure that the stepping is the same or at worst one step apart, otherwise you will run into compatibility issues. In the Windows world, a utility like CPU-Z can tell you the stepping level of your processor. I am not aware of such a tool in the Mac Universe.

 

[Jan Brittenson]

Keep the journal enabled, it protects against file system corruption and makes file system checks on boot really fast. It's a fixed-length (exactly one extent) circular transaction log. Metadata operations that require multiple accesses (like rebalancing the B* catalog or creating a file) get written to the journal as a transaction. When the transaction is finished it's committed - the journal entry is played and the real changes made. Transactions are designed so they can be replayed even if partially finished, so if the system gets power cycled in the middle of a transaction it can replay unfinished but committed journal entries when it starts up again - getting the file system to a consistent state. Data loss and such is still possible, but the file system won't be corrupted.

For this to really work (as in guaranteed consistency) it's important to use drives that implement the ATA FLUSH CACHE command. Otherwise the tail end of a transaction can sit in the drive cache! Needless to say, all drives sold by Apple implement this properly. (Some drives are buggy, or implement it as a no-op.)

 

[Jack]

Jan:

I have no idea what you just wrote means, but is it safe to assume that if Apple sold me a Seagate 7200.10 drive originally, that if I put in a newer generation 7200.11 i will have that capability?