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Aaargh - C1 colours in ACR/LR

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
Doug, the only thing that C1 does better for me is colour. I don't need that extra detail for wedding stuff, not for proofing. There's a limit to how far I'm going to go for a program that is a lot more limited than my present workflow (no dodge and burn and the other points I've mentioned above is a huge defficiency for me). I need simple, fast, easy and powerful. If I can't apply a set blackpoint, midpoint and highlight point to 50+ photos in under 10 seconds without workarounds and indepth tutorials then I'm afraid I'm not interested. Sorry Doug (and Jack) and thanks for your time and effort, I really mean that.

For my present stitching work http://www.timelessjewishart.net I will be using C1 for that extra bit of detail (50+ megapixels just isn't enough! :D) and for trouble images. Other than that I'm going to seek for a better colour profile set for my ACR workflow. I know it may sound crazy to some but the ability to dodge and burn to a wedding photographer without having to enter PS, pretty much trumps all...
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Fair enough. There's a reason why there are 3 major workflow programs and dozen more smaller players. One size does not fit all.

To be super fast in C1 does require reading such tutorials / manuals / workshops. I think LR and Aperture do as well, but you already know LR. So it sounds like you'll be best served by "keeping on keeping on".

I'll throw a big hand in the air to vote for local-area-adjustments (like dodge and burn) in C1. That would save considerable time in the workflow for many of our photographers.

I still think "only" is kind of a strange word for correct rendering of color in an image. :)
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
It's the difference between 'good' colour and 'perfect' colour in trouble lighting and high iso. The rest is plenty good enough for my applications. I do have a pretty good custom profile but like everything in ACR it works well but with non drastically mixed lighting. It's when you mix fluorescent and daylight or flash with high iso or underexposure when it takes quite a bit of twiddling in ACR to get it right or near enough. They just never can get their reds to work properly. Thanks again Doug.

Here's the shot that sparked my heading over to C1 again. Shot in a fluorescent lit room, underexposed a bit, iso 1600. Lots and lots of flare. Bride wearing awful red blusher that gave me fits at the WB stage throughout the wedding. Here's as good as I can get in either program, not trying to do the same in both or match the two but working independantly. Oh and I'm not saying which is which, should be obvious :p That said the ACR version is good enough IMO (I hope, they're getting the proofs tomorrow :D, heck there are another 349 proofs to choose from if they don't like the colour on this one).

 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
The more I look at that the more drastic the difference is, sigh..

Perhaps doing weddings half half? Oh dear, those real skin tones are getting to me!

Just had a wedding cancelled on me for the winter season, the quote and contract are in the mail to them at this very moment. Grrrr. :angry: They had confirmed verbally and as this is the 3rd in the family I was relaxed about getting the deposit. Oh well we learn from our stupidities... :rolleyes:
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
You suck I hate you all. Processing my first wedding in C1 (the wedding from above) to see how liveable it is. As long as I don't need dodge and burn the colour is soooooooooo much better. HATE YOU ALL!

Still going to stick to ACR for all the batch stuff where I want the same setting for loads of pics or stuff where I need dodge and burn and the lighting is pretty even.

Did I mention that I hate you. Especially you Doug. I'll put up a gallery of side by side of a bunch of pics when I'm done.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Did I mention that I hate you. Especially you Doug. I'll put up a gallery of side by side of a bunch of pics when I'm done.
Nothing a little beer can't fix. After a good American Pale Ale (like the batch brewing in my closet) you won't see the differences in color anymore.
 

TRSmith

Subscriber Member
Mid-winter lighthouses :)
-bob
Exactly! And some real-world weather testing. Did you know that Scotch always tastes better and has double the mellowing effect during the coldest winter months? I think we should find out if Gin is effected in a similar way.
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Ben,

I slammed through this thread in a bit of a hurry so I probably missed something along the way but if you are dedicated to ACR/LR and do have a 24 color GMB color chart then check out ACRCalibrator .... better than the DNG profile editor for ACR in my estimation.

There is a small article in LL that describes its use...essentially a script that allows you to generate a custom camera calibration in ACR for whatever lighting based on a capture of the color chart. This is saved as a preset and then can be applied to a batch of pictures for quick correction.

The ACRCalibrator is not tested with newer ACR 5.4 etc but it works. Just follow the setup from the download site.

I do think that Capture One is unbeatable for color...Phocus is on par but ACR/LR not.

One does weary with multistep input process and output routines...

Bob
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
The following is a conversion from a Leica M8 with VC Nokton 1.1 in very mixed lighting....rain outside with incandescent light inside.

ACR with custom ACRCalibrator correction.

Most conversions of the M8 have been way to magenta/red with ACR/LR.
My trial here was due to the news that C1 would not ship for the M9/S2 cameras. I guess that we have some good news on half of that front.:toocool:

The colors are dead on accurate here with little extra work. The carpet and wall looked that bad in actuality. Green table glass/reflective green plants from the window and red brown from the bench however the bouquet is perfect.
 
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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Just for general consumption I find ACR to always have a slight red bias and that has been with every camera i tried with it. I really don't know the exact reason but right off the bat I would try and solve that with some calibration.
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
So far so good.

I've discovered to have all sharpening off in C1. I did have sharpening=disable in the process menu but it makes such a big difference to the viewing window that it was throwing my exposures way way off. Switched it all off and finally the images look right when imported into PS. I also have to have the viewing window on it's own on my main screen with the rest of C1 on the 2nd screen, all that black was messing up my exposures, I thought the images were brighter than they were. I love the F10 button!

Few questions for those of you who have the patience. Firstly how do I rotate an image by drag the same as I would in ACR after I'd applied a crop? *EDIT* found it, it's button 'R'. Shame you can't do both with the crop tool.

Secondly, is the 'skin tone selection' applied even if that tab is not activated? How do I turn it off completely if not?

Is there a way to make a specific set of settings which can then be applied to all images the same way I do in ACR by automatically applying my 'recipe' to all imported files? Is this what 'styles' is for? (looks like it but maybe I'm missing something.)

What are the C1 files that have the changes stored in them, in other words, instead of XMP files in ACR/LR or the changes being stored in the DNG's themselves, what do I back up with my files on external HD's to preserve the data for when I open up backup files in C1?

There is quite a bit of noise with luminance noise set to '0' but the default of '25' is very heavy on the reduction blur. What's a good setting as standard or should I just fiddle till I find one I like?

There was something else but I forget.

Thanks all you great people. When I see the difference between my ACR files and these with this difficult lighting, I blanch in horror at the proofs that are already on the way to the client. Oh and the 150+ digital weddings that I have done in the past using ACR... :p
 

cmb_

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Is there a way to make a specific set of settings which can then be applied to all images the same way I do in ACR by automatically applying my 'recipe' to all imported files? Is this what 'styles' is for? (looks like it but maybe I'm missing something.)
After making adjustments to one image, with that image selected, open the Adjustments Tab (Adjustments Clipboard - 10th one over right after MetaData). When you first open it, it will be empty - then click on Copy (at the bottom) a list appears and all the adjustments you have made are check marked. Select all the images you wish to apply those adjustments then click Apply.
 

cmb_

Subscriber & Workshop Member
What are the C1 files that have the changes stored in them, in other words, instead of XMP files in ACR/LR or the changes being stored in the DNG's themselves, what do I back up with my files on external HD's to preserve the data for when I open up backup files in C1?
By default, when you browse a folder of images in C1 it will create a folder entitled CaptureOne inside of the folder containing your images. Inside of the CaptureOne folder are 2 folders: Cache & Settings45 which contain the previews and the settings, respectively.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Secondly, is the 'skin tone selection' applied even if that tab is not activated? How do I turn it off completely if not?
It's "OFF" by default, you have to use it for it to take effect. All it is is a sophisticated WB tool to keep skintones of a given subject (like a bride :D) consistent throughout an entire series of images regardless of lighting changes. Wedding photographers really like it. (Sorry, couldn't resist :ROTFL:)

Is there a way to make a specific set of settings which can then be applied to all images the same way I do in ACR by automatically applying my 'recipe' to all imported files? Is this what 'styles' is for? (looks like it but maybe I'm missing something.)
Adjust your first image to desired state, then do a Shift+CMD+C -- that copies all of your adjustments to the adjustment clipboard. Next select all the images you want to apply those adjustments to -- you can do this normally by Shift-clicking, CMD-clicking or doing a CMD-A. Once selected, do a Shift-CMD-V to apply the copied adjustment to all selected images. You done. Or do it the way Charlie said. Or use the icons for same up at the top RH side of the screen with the arrow out and arrow in. Or there are about 4 other ways you can do it too :D

What are the C1 files that have the changes stored in them, in other words, instead of XMP files in ACR/LR or the changes being stored in the DNG's themselves, what do I back up with my files on external HD's to preserve the data for when I open up backup files in C1?
They are in the "Capture One" folder automatically placed inside whatever main folder you browsed your images from. Inside that main folder are two folders, "Cache" adn "Settings 45". Inside the Settings 45 folder you find a bunch of xxx.cos files -- those are the equivalents of the Adobe XMP files. Oh, sorry -- what Charlie said.

There is quite a bit of noise with luminance noise set to '0' but the default of '25' is very heavy on the reduction blur. What's a good setting as standard or should I just fiddle till I find one I like?
Fiddle. In short, I find zero works well with low ISO images from my P back and 1Ds3. However once ISO goes up, that slider needs to go up too. 25 is probably good for ISO 400 on both cameras.

There was something else but I forget.
You hate us.

Thanks all you great people. When I see the difference between my ACR files and these with this difficult lighting, I blanch in horror at the proofs that are already on the way to the client. Oh and the 150+ digital weddings that I have done in the past using ACR... :p
You are welcome :D
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
So should I not use styles if there is a set default that I want applied to all images upon import? It seems to be the fastest way.

How then do I use the skin tone tool, do I ignore WB and use the skin tone instead?

I have to fiddle with the noise reduction stuff though the default values C1 applies for colour noise seem spot on and tuned for each pic individually. The colour noise doesn't go blotchy like in ACR. Me likes. Is there any way to select only the images shot at iso 400 to apply a certain noise reduction like in Bridge or am I asking too much from a non browser program?
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
Oh I get it now, you can't select all the images and apply a style, you can't seem to do anything to multiple images without using the cludgy adjustments clipboard or first doing the changes to one image then applying all of them to a selection, makes doing simple things rather long winded. Wow but applying a set default to 350 images takes a long time, C1 been frozen for 10 mins already.
 
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