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Capture 7 vs Aperture - anyone use both?

Thanks for the responses. Two remaining questions. First, if changes are made to a file that is in a Folder referenced in LR but the image has NOT been imported into the Session Folder created, what happens to those changes? If you are finished with the C1 processing, you can output the file as a TIFF from C1. LR will not, however, be aware of it, right? What happens to the C1 changes if you are not done in C1 but you want to close out of C1?
Second, how can I keep track in my DAM (ie, LR)of which images I have worked on in C1. I guess if I output it as a TIFF to the original Folder in LR where the image resides, I can title the file in a way that identifies it as a file that went through C1 fro raw processing. With a file that not been finished and exported as a TIFF, I am unsure of how to flag that in LR. A loud alarm going off in LR would work I suppose!
Ill let the LR experts answer your specific question.

You could always add a keyword to the file "C1_Processing" as an example.

To be honest, you would find it easier to work solely in Capture One - but I would say that. ;)

The reason we don't necessarily offer a simple 'file browser' option is that with large image files, the performance would be pretty painful as we would have to read the image file, create a thumbnail.. etc etc. This is why the catalog is smart as it contains this information in the database - created on import.
 

jonoslack

Active member
To be honest, you would find it easier to work solely in Capture One - but I would say that. ;)

The reason we don't necessarily offer a simple 'file browser' option is that with large image files, the performance would be pretty painful as we would have to read the image file, create a thumbnail.. etc etc. This is why the catalog is smart as it contains this information in the database - created on import.
HI David
no way I'm going to use more than one program - If I use C1, then that's what I'll use . . . . except for some black and white conversions where Silver efex pro does such a good job.

The crucial issue with C1 7 is whether the combined variants / catalog model can do the business as well as Aperture - of course, the problem is that it takes a long time to learn these programs properly, so, quite naturally, people become partisan.

Right now I want to remove all input sharpening and noise reduction for the camera I'm using . . . and use the native DNG curve . . . I can work out how to do it, and can even like the results, but I'm damned if I can find a way of saving as a default input for the camera, so that next time I import that's what's used - I'm sure it's easy . . . . but I can't work it out!

With Aperture, if you want to use Silver efex pro, you can right click on an image and choose 'edit with'. Aperture then creates a 16 bit tiff file in the same location as the original RAW (either from the original file or with the catalog adjusments applied - stores it in the catalog as a new variant and opens it in Silver efex pro - which makes changes in the tiff file - these will then be reflected in the variant in Aperture when you return - You can shell out to any other program which will modify a .tiff file in the same way.
 
Regarding different versions in different albums...

Have you explored variants in Capture One, for starters?
Yes David, may be I am missing something, but what I would like to do and I am not able to, is for instance to place all the B&W variants of a pic in a dedicated album and all the color variants in a different one. Now when I place a variant in one album all the variants of that pic go toghether.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Thanks for the responses. Two remaining questions. First, if changes are made to a file that is in a Folder referenced in LR but the image has NOT been imported into the Session Folder created, what happens to those changes? If you are finished with the C1 processing, you can output the file as a TIFF from C1. LR will not, however, be aware of it, right? What happens to the C1 changes if you are not done in C1 but you want to close out of C1?
As far as I can see, the changes are saved in the catalog (which is why I'm interested again). So if you haven't output to tiff then they certainly won't be reflected in LR, but they won't be lost either
Second, how can I keep track in my DAM (ie, LR)of which images I have worked on in C1. I guess if I output it as a TIFF to the original Folder in LR where the image resides, I can title the file in a way that identifies it as a file that went through C1 fro raw processing. With a file that not been finished and exported as a TIFF, I am unsure of how to flag that in LR. A loud alarm going off in LR would work I suppose!
You just need to import from the folder again in LR - and pickup those images not already there - they shouldn't get muddled up as they have a different file extension.

Still - I think David is right - If you're going to use C1, then it ought to be one's primary tool - My problem (and your's too I guess) is that after years of experience in LF (Aperture in my case) it's very difficult to evaluate another program to see if it will do the job.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Yes David, may be I am missing something, but what I would like to do and I am not able to, is for instance to place all the B&W variants of a pic in a dedicated album and all the color variants in a different one. Now when I place a variant in one album all the variants of that pic go toghether.
In C1 you would accomplish this by tagging, keywording, or otherwise differentiating them and using filters (preferably by keyboard shortcut).

With this workflow you can easily switch between showing just the b+w, just the color, or both - MUCH faster than LR once you get used to it, though admittedly less obvious/intuitive. This and other advanced organizational techniques are taught in our Capture One Masters Program.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Right now I want to remove all input sharpening and noise reduction for the camera I'm using . . . and use the native DNG curve . . . I can work out how to do it, and can even like the results, but I'm damned if I can find a way of saving as a default input for the camera, so that next time I import that's what's used - I'm sure it's easy . . . . but I can't work it out!
That's a "style" in C1 which you can apply to images as you import, en masse after imported, or upon capturing an image tethered.

You can stack styles (where meaningful), preview their effect by hovering over it, and organize them into subfolders to keep yourself sane.


With Aperture, if you want to use Silver efex pro, you can right click on an image and choose 'edit with'. Aperture then creates a 16 bit tiff file in the same location as the original RAW (either from the original file or with the catalog adjusments applied - stores it in the catalog as a new variant and opens it in Silver efex pro - which makes changes in the tiff file - these will then be reflected in the variant in Aperture when you return - You can shell out to any other program which will modify a .tiff file in the same way.
C1 can do the first half of that round trip using a process recipe with the appropriate settings ("image folder" and "open with").

The second half will take 2 more clicks as you'll need to select the TIFF in C1 and select "regenerate preview" - preferably using a custom shortcut to make it one less mouse click. A true and automatic round trip would be nice and may be the sort of feature you see added in time.
 
In C1 you would accomplish this by tagging, keywording, or otherwise differentiating them and using filters (preferably by keyboard shortcut).

With this workflow you can easily switch between showing just the b+w, just the color, or both - MUCH faster than LR once you get used to it, though admittedly less obvious/intuitive. This and other advanced organizational techniques are taught in our Capture One Masters Program.
Thx, I will try this.
 

cam

Active member
Right now I want to remove all input sharpening and noise reduction for the camera I'm using . . . and use the native DNG curve . . . I can work out how to do it, and can even like the results, but I'm damned if I can find a way of saving as a default input for the camera, so that next time I import that's what's used - I'm sure it's easy . . . . but I can't work it out!
In previous versions of C1, you can save your own user presets under most menus (including ICC Profile). It's located in the three bars, just to the left of the upside down triangle (farthest on the right). You can then Save that preset and use it as your default.

(Apologies if that sounds alien in the new interface, but I've used this method for quite a few years now and it hasn't changed. A little fiddly initially, but seamless thereafter.)
 

archiM44

Member
For years I have used John Beardsworth's Lightroom plugin called "Open Directly"
This will send the original RAW file directly from the LR Library to any other program that can recognize that RAW file, in my case my developer of choice Capture One. But just as easily to any other program including Aperture.
There are many ways to get the processed TIFF back into LR (export to watched folder, or import from output folder etc.)
Plug-ins – Lightroom Solutions – John Beardsworth

The advantage over the use of the Capture One catalog is that this allows me to use any developer, in my case for RAW files not supported by Capture One and send them to the appropriate program.
I have now started using Media Pro which also allows the use of many developers.
 

Maggie O

Active member
Have you tried producing B/W from Capture One Pro 7?
I used to do most of my B&W conversions with the C1 LE that came with my M8, using a bunch of custom profiles and I loved it. But, when I moved to Fuji bodies and the M9, that was it for C1, sadly.

I've got a pretty large workflow/library investment in Aperture now, so the price of entry into C1P 7 is even higher for me now.
 

jonoslack

Active member
I used to do most of my B&W conversions with the C1 LE that came with my M8, using a bunch of custom profiles and I loved it. But, when I moved to Fuji bodies and the M9, that was it for C1, sadly.

I've got a pretty large workflow/library investment in Aperture now, so the price of entry into C1P 7 is even higher for me now.
Hi Maggie - of course you're right - first of all there's the investment of time in learning whether it does the job - then an even bigger one converting to C1 (more than 50,000 images in my case). It's not something to be taken lightly!
 

hcubell

Well-known member
For years I have used John Beardsworth's Lightroom plugin called "Open Directly"
This will send the original RAW file directly from the LR Library to any other program that can recognize that RAW file, in my case my developer of choice Capture One. But just as easily to any other program including Aperture.
There are many ways to get the processed TIFF back into LR (export to watched folder, or import from output folder etc.)
Plug-ins – Lightroom Solutions – John Beardsworth

The advantage over the use of the Capture One catalog is that this allows me to use any developer, in my case for RAW files not supported by Capture One and send them to the appropriate program.
I have now started using Media Pro which also allows the use of many developers.
How can the Open Directly Plug-In work with C1 7 which requires a Session? C1 7 no longer allows you to just tell it to import an image and leave it in its original location.
 

Bill Caulfeild-Browne

Well-known member
C1 7 no longer allows you to just tell it to import an image and leave it in its original location.
I don't think that's so, Howard. I keep all my files in Mac's Finder so they can be referenced in C1 7 or any other program. I can - and do - import images while leaving the original file in Finder.

Perhaps I don't understand your statement properly...

Bill
 

thomas

New member
How can the Open Directly Plug-In work with C1 7 which requires a Session? C1 7 no longer allows you to just tell it to import an image and leave it in its original location.
I don't understand why it is so complicated to create sessions ... or at least one single session. There are many softwares that require to create "something" to start with ... be it a "project" (for instance in video editing softwares) or be it a "catalog" (for instance in Lightroom) or whatever. In Capture One you have to create a "session" ... or alternatively a "catalog" since Version 7. To be more precise: you don't even have to create a session yourself as C1 will create one by default.

Capture One will of course allow you to open image files directly. Right click on any (supported) image file on your system, select "open with" and select "Capture One". C1 will then start the most recent session you have been working in and will open the selected image. In the Library C1 will point you to the folder the respective images resides in (in the "System Folders" tab... the folder in question will be highlighted. If you want to, assign this folder as a session "favorite"... see above). The very same will happen when other applictions send images to C1 (basically they use the "open with" command).
To make things a bit easier I would recommend to first launch C1, open the session you want have your respective images in and first then start to send image to C1 through other applications. Basically it doesn't make a difference ... but this way you can be sure the images will be sent into the correct session.
 
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hcubell

Well-known member
How can the Open Directly Plug-In work with C1 7 which requires a Session? C1 7 no longer allows you to just tell it to import an image and leave it in its original location.
Well, the short answer seems to be that Open Directly no longer opens an image in LR directly in C1 7 when you use the plug-in. It opens C1, but the image that I highlighted in LR does not appear. All I get is an Import dialogue box with no image in it.
 

hcubell

Well-known member
I don't think that's so, Howard. I keep all my files in Mac's Finder so they can be referenced in C1 7 or any other program. I can - and do - import images while leaving the original file in Finder.

Perhaps I don't understand your statement properly...

Bill
Bill, that was true with C1 6, but It appears that C1 7 will not allow you to work on a raw file without creating a Session or a Catalog, or at least I have not been able to do it.
 

archiM44

Member
Works for me from LR4 to C1-7. Opens the C1 default session, opens the whole folder and highlights the chosen image.
I don't import images into he default session (Capture One session) so that might be the problem.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
How can the Open Directly Plug-In work with C1 7 which requires a Session? C1 7 no longer allows you to just tell it to import an image and leave it in its original location.
This is not correct. You are using the word "import" where no such facility is required in Capture One when using sessions. In a session you can simply navigate anywhere on your hard drive. There are many reasons why you would not want to do this, and instead conform to a proper session-based organization and workflow whereby when working with a given session you only work with images related to and held in that session (and making your LR catalog draw off of that session-based organization on your HD). However, if you want to, there is nothing* that stops you from viewing/adjusting/processing-from any folder local or remote.

My guess is you are accidentally working in C1v7 as a "catalog".

Simply start a new session, name it anything, put it anywhere, and pretend it doesn't exist and C1v7 will behave exactly like C1v6.

*Over the course of a few hundred hours of use your default/hidden/ignored "session" will eventually slow in performance if you use it to navigate to random folders on a regular basis, since there is some caching going on when you do this. The solution takes about 5 seconds - simply start a new session and continue on your merry way. Since all adjustments are held in sidecar folders wherever the raw file is, starting a new session won't do anything that interferes with your workflow.

Forgive me because I can't remember. Have you ever attended one of my Capture One workshops, classes, or webinars?
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Works for me from LR4 to C1-7. Opens the C1 default session, opens the whole folder and highlights the chosen image.
I don't import images into he default session (Capture One session) so that might be the problem.
No "importation" is required.

A session creates some folders (Capture/Output/Trash) which it is suggesting/encouraging you to use. But you are not, in any way, required to only use these folders. You can merrily tell it to work on raw files in any folder you want, and process your JPG/TIFFs to any folder you want.
 
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