Lightroom and other Raw Developers

[LJL]

LJ, I have no idea what it is (or I am) doing!!!!

:wtf: :ROTFL:

Maggie,
Under Preferences>Previews, you have options to generate new previews (which takes time) or to use the embedded JPEG thumbnail. You also have the options to limit the quality of the previews, as well as to control their size. All of these will dramatically change the import processing activities. It may be worth playing with those settings a bit to find what best suits your needs (resolution, speed, trade-offs, etc.). Just a suggestion.

LJ

 

[Maggie O]

What's the difference in Aperture between a preview and a thumbnail?

 

[LJL]

Maggie,
Basically, the Preview is the image that will be displayed in the large Viewer pane, while the thumbnail is the smaller image that is displayed in the filmstrip bottom pane. If you have files like JPEGs that have been processed in camera, or imports of other files from things like PS, you can import those to be displayed as is, and not have Aperture generate a new view by reading the entire file and running it through its algorithms.

The Previews that are displayed in the Viewer window can also be generated to specific sizes of resolution, with higher resolution creating larger files and taking longer to generate. When you work on an image file, you are essentially working with the Preview, but the instruction set is applied to the entire image file. The size of the Previews is more related to how you plan to view things while working. So if your viewer pane is relatively small, you do not need to have large previews generated as they will only take up more space and time. However, if your viewer is a second large display, you may want larger Previews generated in order to see the greater details on the larger screen. (When you zoom in to 100%, or use the Loupe, the app is only working on a portion of the file for display, and that overrides your Preview settings while using that mode. As you move around a file that is zoomed in at 100%, Aperture creates/refreshes that portion of the image to fit your Viewer pane.)

Not sure if I am making that completely clear, but that is how I understand how things work. So, if you have the Preferences>Preview set to a large size, the image file stored will be larger, but it still will display to fit the viewer pane. If you set the preference to a smaller size than your Viewer pane, it will not fill the pane. I have been experimenting with using "1/2 size" as the Preview preference. That seems to be an acceptable compromise for speed and detail. There is also the option for overall quality. I have been working at level 10, and that slows things a bit compared to a lower level, sort of like JPEG compression in a way....only an analogy.

So, if you have the horsepower, both in RAM and video card RAM, going to larger sizes at higher quality levels will create outstanding looking images on your display. If you do not have fast processors, lots of RAM and a more powerful video card, such as many laptops have to deal with, dialing things back a bit will speed things up. Aperture uses the CPU, the video card and RAM for its processing more than other apps, so you can tune the app to your set-up and needs. And, lest folks forget, when you plug in a second display, you are sharing the video RAM and processing across both displays. That is another reason why one should select a higher end video card that has more video RAM if they have the option.

O.K., that is about all the Aperture geek I can manage this evening.

LJ

 

[Maggie O]

Not sure if I am making that completely clear, but that is how I understand how things work. So, if you have the Preferences>Preview set to a large size, the image file stored will be larger, but it still will display to fit the viewer pane.

OK, I think I get it. This also explains why I suddenly lost 26GB of space on my MacBook Pro's hard drive, despite storing images on a Fire Wire disk. Grrrrrrrrrrrr. Mama not like. I'm guessing all those gigabytes of previews live in the Aperture library in my Pictures folder. Dammit.

 

[Jack]

OK, I think I get it. This also explains why I suddenly lost 26GB of space on my MacBook Pro's hard drive, despite storing images on a Fire Wire disk. Grrrrrrrrrrrr. Mama not like. I'm guessing all those gigabytes of previews live in the Aperture library in my Pictures folder. Dammit.

Bloat... It's what I *hate* about browsing software that refuses to browse MY existing file structure as-is. At the very least, it should offer me an option to store the sidecar files and previews in separate, identifiable folders INSIDE the corresponding image folders of my existing file structure, but none do.

 

[LJL]

Bloat... It's what I *hate* about browsing software that refuses to browse MY existing file structure as-is. At the very least, it should offer me an option to store the sidecar files and previews in separate, identifiable folders INSIDE the corresponding image folders of my existing file structure, but none do.

Jack,
I agree with your feelings about this. In the case of Aperture, it is not entirely "bloat". The app is merely capturing a smaller version for previewing. You can still keep your files wherever you want, and you can export adjusted files and masters to wherever you want also, such as separate/same folder as originals, so you are not losing any options there.

By having created a Preview version within the Aperture Library, it gives you the flexibility to have all of the images that you want with you, plus the ability to edit IPTC data and do cataloging without being connected to the original files. I sometimes load in bunches of images as referenced files just to show clients stuff on the laptop. The quality for that display is excellent, and it does not really take up all that much space in comparison to dragging the full files around. And those previews load at blinding speed, so I can do fast slideshows, or rip through images almost as fast as I can hit the arrow key, all the while, pushing an image to full screen on my 15" MBP. (This was one of the things I really like about PhotoMechanic also....very fast full screen renderings for quick viewing. That app does work on whatever folder/file structure you have, but it is really only a browser tool with good IPTC edit capabilities.)

I am not defending nor pushing Aperture, as that should be an individual choice. It has some very nice features, and also lacks some things that many wish it had.....that may change as new plug-ins and stuff get created. In some respects, it is not unlike iView Media Pro, but Aperture actually generates a larger, usable Preview file that can be moved about and used to do layout work for other projects, like books, Web templates, etc. In the end, it is creating another smaller copy of the original image for its internal storage, and that does duplicate some files, but it still appears to be rather economical when configured. Not a tool that everyone may want or need, but this latest version (2.0) has made some nice improvements for workflow and RAW conversion, in addition to all the DAM features. The learning curve for all the deeper functionality is a bit steep at times, but overall, it still seems to provide one of the more complete workflow feature sets. I still do not use it for full production work myself, as there are still too many things I need to do in PS, but I import those final images from PS (as referenced files) into Aperture so that I can carry a decent library around on my laptop to deal with client needs on the fly. This has been helpful for me.

LJ

 

[Maggie O]

I'd prefer it if Aperture only generated a preview file when I called up an image, instead of filling my hard drives with thousands of .jpgs that I will probably never look at.

 

[LJL]

I'd prefer it if Aperture only generated a preview file when I called up an image, instead of filling my hard drives with thousands of .jpgs that I will probably never look at.

Maggie,
You can turn off the Preview generation, if you want, and that will speed import tremendously and not tax the machine in background processing. The downside is that if you want to view your projects, Aperture will need to generate previews as you select individual files for viewing or working. So rather than have a bunch of things preloaded and ready to view, you will be creating new Previews on the fly. It will be a bit slower and not allow you to rapidly flip through things, but it will save space. You can always flip to just filmstrip viewing and enlarge those thumbnails to scan through stuff. Much less overhead processing and storage demands. And....the Loupe should still allow you to zoom in to a larger look for focus detail.

LJ

 

[Maggie O]

I can't get the damn thing to stop making previews for every last photo in my collection. I've maxed my HD out, and now Aperture just hangs when I open it, because IT REALLY WANTS TO KEEP MAKING THOSE GODDAMNED PREVIEWS.

Circular file. ASAP, I reckon.

 

[LJL]

I can't get the damn thing to stop making previews for every last photo in my collection. I've maxed my HD out, and now Aperture just hangs when I open it, because IT REALLY WANTS TO KEEP MAKING THOSE GODDAMNED PREVIEWS.

Circular file. ASAP, I reckon.

It's a dumb computer that is only following that last command to completion, rather than understanding your frustration and desire to change things

Couple of options: let it finish its tasks, though you may consume too much disk space and slow things down. Second is to go into your Picture folder in Finder and trash the entire Aperture Library, start over with the new import criteria and see how that works. I know that last idea seems like you just wasted several days, which you have, sort of, plus the aggravation of not being able to do other things on the machine, but it is an option to get settings to where you probably want them. If it is any consolation, I have gone down this path already before. However, before I trashed things, I exported any stuff that I had adjusted. I understand your issue is that it just keeps doing the background Preview building. If you "cut off the source", meaning the external folders it is working on, it cannot work on them to create Previews, so that may be another way to interrupt the processing. (Not completely sure, but I think that may work.)

LJ

 

[Maggie O]

It's a dumb computer that is only following that last command to completion, rather than understanding your frustration and desire to change things

Or, as I once told a group of mothers I was teaching, "Computers are like super-obedient toddlers; they will do EXACTLY what you tell them do, even if it's a very bad idea. Which is why you have to tell them to bring the puppy to you and not just 'let go of the puppy,' because puppy might not survive the fall."

I'll give your ideas a try, LJ. Gotta go out for the afternoon now, though.

 

[Maggie O]

Well, I deleted the Aperture library, which gave me back my hard disk, but since Aperture was freezing up on open there was no way to rescue the 100 or photos that Aperture imported. So, the current score, Aperture 100+ photos gone forever; Maggie, 100+ hairs pulled out.

I hates me some Aperture. There were some good photos that were lost, too.

 

[helenhill]

MAGPIE
A wig is in shipment
It sounds you'll be needing it by the End of the Evening
xoHelen

 

[LJL]

Well, I deleted the Aperture library, which gave me back my hard disk, but since Aperture was freezing up on open there was no way to rescue the 100 or photos that Aperture imported. So, the current score, Aperture 100+ photos gone forever; Maggie, 100+ hairs pulled out.

I hates me some Aperture. There were some good photos that were lost, too.

Sorry for that loss, Maggie. Did you try to just "cut off the source" first before trashing the library? (Not that it matters now, but just curious if that worked or not.)

In looking at my own settings, I noticed that there was an asterisk (*) next to one of the Preview size preferences. My guess is that may be the suggested optimal size for your main Viewer display set-up. If you are working on a MacBook without any external monitor, I think the 1280x1280 size would be all you needed, and that is for when you have it build a Preview just for the images you select.

On the brighter side, now that you have an idea of how you might set your Preferences, things will come in faster, and you will be able to rebuild those 100+ versions without too much effort...I hope.

LJ

 

[Jack]

Well, I deleted the Aperture library, which gave me back my hard disk, but since Aperture was freezing up on open there was no way to rescue the 100 or photos that Aperture imported. So, the current score, Aperture 100+ photos gone forever; Maggie, 100+ hairs pulled out.

I hates me some Aperture. There were some good photos that were lost, too.

OUCH! that totally sucks! I had the same thing happen to me when LR first came out --- a simple backspace and I deleted all images that were selected at the time, no warning at all, just poof gone. Fortunately, I had my back-ups on a separate disk, but that experience swore me off LR until recently. And now you know why I don't trust it and probably never will...

 

[robsteve]

OUCH! --- a simple backspace and I deleted all images that were selected at the time, no warning at all, just poof gone. Fortunately, I had my back-ups on a separate disk, but that experience swore me off LR until recently. And now you know why I don't trust it and probably never will...

I think that got fixed in Lightroom 1.3. The key sequence for a delete is different and it now asks if you want to permanently remove the files from the disk or just remove them from the Library.

You probably were not the only person that did that same thing.

 

[Maggie O]

nd you will be able to rebuild those 100+ versions without too much effort...I hope.

Aperture took my originals with it, too. All I have left are the JPEGs that I made with Capture One.

I noticed the asterisk, too and am re-importing my iPhoto library with previews to be made only when I select a photo to view/edit.

 

[Maggie O]

HA!!!

I was actually smarter than Aperture!! I did manage to save the .DNGs to an external disk!!!! YEEEEE-HA!!!

OK, carry on.

 

[LJL]

HA!!!

I was actually smarter than Aperture!! I did manage to save the .DNGs to an external disk!!!! YEEEEE-HA!!!

OK, carry on.

Curiosity....experimentation....confusion....frustration....desperation....near tragedy....recovery.....perseverance.

I love a nice ending. So glad your instincts to have files in more than one place paid off. You need to celebrate after all of this :clap:

LJ

 

[David K]

I really like some features about Aperture but it's in the trash now for this very reason. I imported a huge number of files hoping to use it for sorting, rating, etc. but it just wound up eating up tons of space on my boot drive. I've got space elsewhere... wonder if I could relocate the Aperture Library