I think this is very subjetive. I feel the opposite way and also have owned and used bothCanon comes much closer to the concept of aligning useful and reachable buttons which can be operated also in blind way
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I think this is very subjetive. I feel the opposite way and also have owned and used bothCanon comes much closer to the concept of aligning useful and reachable buttons which can be operated also in blind way
In shooting mode, the S2 has aperture on the wheel, and there is a dedicated shutter speed wheel on top. Applying exposure compensation can not be done without pushing a button on any DSLR I know of, unless I am missing something? The D3x has it under the right index finger, the +/- button. The 1Ds3 is the same. So I am not sure which camera you are referring to. The S2 has the same level of indirection for these controls as the top DSLRs.
I don't think they're talking that much - it's us that's doing all the talking :ROTFL:I think Leica needs to stop talking and start shipping as the pricing gap between it's MF solution (one can safely assume) and the rest of the world's is getting wider with every passing week - and making it's market entry/success an ever-increasing challenge accordingly.
I don't think they're talking that much - it's us that's doing all the talking :ROTFL:
Anyway - if the S2 has to survive simply on inroads to existing MF users it doesn't stand a chance.
As for the interface, it seems to me that it could turn out to be anything from a stroke of genius to a complete lemon as far as what we can now see.
This argument would seem to be between the half full brigade and the half empty brigade - still good fun though.
robMight as well jump into this mess. Slow morning. 1Ds2 - simply 1/2 tap shutter button, then can simply rotate wheel with shutter finger to change EV comp. Eye stays on VF. Trigger finger maybe slides 0.5".
The ideal camera would have everything essential one, eye-on-VF, button-touch away. That said, such an ideal, give the 1001 features we all seem to want on a camera (or at least Marketing seems to think we want), has yet to exist. Designers make compromises for history ("oh no, they changed the position of the XYZ button that they've had since the F3... horrors, where's my keyboard.."), for a test photogs feedback - or for simple looks (the most idiotic).
It's a fact of life that we have to work around thru actual use.
On the S2, I do share some of Peter's handling concerns about camera mass vs pixel density vs lens mass.
Lets also be honest here, like the Phase series backs (which Leica clearly copied), no one puts 4 simple multi-mode buttons on the back of a camera (or Leaf a stylus system) to enable fast, "grab that Pulitzer" shooting.
All I can say is after all these debates before the sucker is even released, I sure hope the S2 lives up to billing by it's supporters or things could get VERY interesting in cyber-land (not to mention for Leica). That assumes it actually is released of course. Or is released at prices that actually reflect the ongoing tumble in the MFDB market (e.g. see this am's Hassy pre-owned kit sale email).
And NO, the S2 is NOT different enough to stand outside that descending bubble. It's a MF sensor + a shutter + lenses.
And yes, they're 'Leica lenses", but having Nth percentile glass will only compensate for so many other sins given the superb units already in the market from Mamiya, Hassy, Rollei, et al within a known snack-bracket and on well-established bodies, broad market availability and with well-established (and reasonably quick) support structures.
There will come a point where wringing that last degree of uber-fine-detail resolution out of a scene will simply not be noticed in commercial prints using similar sensors (all of which lack AA filters and all of which are from the same 3-4 vendors). At that juncture, any resolution above that 'I get paid' point is simply bragging rights. That said, Allah knows, a lot of folks do pay a lot for those rights.
Shuttered-lenses aside, will a Phase 30-(or it's upcoming) 40MP body+ say a 150/2.8 D (or Hassy/Leaf equivalent), which are getting cheaper by the week, produce that worse a shoot than an (as yet released) S2 + 180/3.5? If so (or if lens shutters are desired), just how much of a premium in terms of $$, support issues, Beta-testing will you willingly pay?
Also, if moving into (or upwards within) MF land, how long are you willing to wait to acquire a STABLE S2 kit+service structure, price aside, as values keep dropping on existing systems? Systems that could be earning you $$/Euros today? Say if you move next week with a Hassy/Phamiya/Leaf kit will you then be willing to dump that system say in 6-12 mos for $0.66 on the dollar to acquire for +/- 2x that sales cash, an S2? Or would a fraction of that cash outflow be better spent acquiring the next level in lighting or computing to lower your effort spent for $$ collected or for better studio rental?
I think Leica needs to stop talking and start shipping as the pricing gap between it's MF solution (one can safely assume) and the rest of the world's is getting wider with every passing week - and making it's market entry/success an ever-increasing challenge accordingly.
Rob,
"I sure hope the S2 lives up to billing by it's supporters or things could get VERY interesting in cyber-land (not to mention for Leica).
That assumes it actually is released of course - or released at prices that actually reflect the ongoing tumble in the MFDB market (e.g. see this am's Hassy pre-owned kit sale email).
And NO, the S2 is NOT different enough to stand outside that descending bubble. It's a MF sensor + a shutter + lenses."
Two things: if the S2 is nothing more than an MF sensor + a shutter + lenses, why all the hysteria over it? And, is it clear that there's a relationship between cyber-land hysteria and actual sales? There are certainly of few poeple posting incessantly about the S2 (not you, Rob) who will never buy one unless it sells for under $15,00 with a lens.
Yeez. Grow up.But Lars, we don't know *why* pros buy the Nikons and Canons in such large number. You presume it is because of the buttons. I presume it is because of the IQ combined with convenience, speed, and complete systems... The fact that they sell well doesn't make every aspect of their design perfect, and I would bet (if there were some way to resolve it) that for every owner who uses many of these buttons on every shoot, there are three who don't touch them, except for one or two.
Anyway, there really is no way to resolve this, so why don't we leave it? I hope for a Leica S2 with a dead-simple interface, you hope for more buttons: I won!
"Grow up"??? It was a joke! Leica put only a few buttons on the camera, and there is nothing either of us can do about it. It was also the second time I was trying to stop having this discussion. There is no knowledge that one way or the other is more popular, regardless of which cameras are more popular. There is no sense in trying to figure out who is right, because there is no "right". Do you feel that it is more grown up to keep discussing this with no end in sight, and no way to resolve it properly?Yeez. Grow up.
Dear DavidI just updated my blog with photos and measurements from yesterday when I had an S2 mockup in our store.
David Farkas Photography Blog
I have side-by-side photos of the S2 and Nikon D3x, S2 and Mamiya 645 AFD, as well as some comparisons of S lenses to Hasselblad HC lenses.
I hope this settles some of the confusion on the size of the S2.
David
Oh ye of little faith...spend some phone time with Brother David from Dale Photo land and heed Brother John's "12 Steps" now up on the Sunset Bar, then you too will be ready for the coming of the S2!Seriously I have read so much BS marketing on this thing that it truly is sickening and I can pretty much punch holes in every argument but alas I am just not going to think about it any more and keep my nose out of it. I truly hate half truths and missing data that it truly drives me crazy but I am going the low blood pressure route from now on. :lecture: