Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
:thumbs:
Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!
Marc,Basically, that is what I meant when I said the H4D/40 files were what I had hoped for from the S2 ... the sensor specs being similar, one would think so ... then the form factor and all that would be the deciding factor.
Unfortunately, the same 6m pixel size is about all that's similar. It's what happens to that sensor data in-camera and out of camera that counts in terms of the image quality that makes it to print. I think that involves more than just post processing profiles ... but some good profiles for the S2 sure wouldn't hurt. Where are they? I have 170 S2 RAW files just waiting to redo.
Nope, for now I'll stick with Hassey and Phase/Leaf when it comes to providing the end product ... which is all I care about.
BTW, I DO hope Leica makes a go of it with the S2. It is a really nice camera and a great idea ... not to mention sexy as all get out.
-Marc
I am surprised to hear you say that - maybe my standards for IQ are lower than yours..Marc,
....
Leica is far away from that. Even with the M9, which I admire because of the form factor for FF and the superb lenses, they are miles away from what can be achieved WRT IQ compared to Olympus, Nikon, Sony etc.
Leica might need another 1 or 2 years to turn that digital processing ...
Marc,
Hasselblad is the right decision for you in the moment. Never saw a vendor in MF digital who could do this magic on their sensor data - resulting in stunning IQ of the end product - print, display, web.
Leica is far away from that. Even with the M9, which I admire because of the form factor for FF and the superb lenses, they are miles away from what can be achieved WRT IQ compared to Olympus, Nikon, Sony etc.
Leica might need another 1 or 2 years to turn that digital processing disadvantage around. And so they will need for their lens lineup of the S System to become somehow competitive to Hasselblad and Phase.
Means 1 - 2 years to hang around with great other gear. But by then there is definitely the need for an S3. Will they be able to deliver?
Far away? I think you are joking... please make some samples where this big difference is... just to says Leica is far away is not really helpful.Leica is far away from that.
Your first argument seems to be contradicted by your second argument.1) I doubt if I would post images from Hasselblad, Phase, Sinar, Leica S2 (Which I cant) anybody would be able to tell which image comes from which camera.
2) Peter,
having used the D3x for over a year, and using the D700 and E_P2 now along with the M9 I can not see how you come to your conclusion about M9 IQ.
The IQ of all three is great, but overall I prefer the M9 IQ over Nikon (maybe except image at high ISO) and the IQ of both D700 and M9 over the E-P2.
E-P2 is fine, because its smaller camera, nice form factor and has video and can take all kind of lenses, but the M9 IQ is for my taste the one which comes closest to MF IQ.
Your first argument seems to be contradicted by your second argument.
To flip it ... I could post images from a D3x, D700, Sony A900, Canon 1DsMKIII and M9 (which I CAN), that I doubt anybody would be able to tell which image came from which camera.
All that says is that one can be selective in choosing which images to show, and one's taste and skill in processing no matter how long it may take ... with the commonality being sub 1 meg jpgs to post. It also discounts the differences that drive selection by people with skilled minds and experienced eyes.
In the end we have our "impressions" of image quality that we get from each of these systems and how in-sync the whole imaging chain is with our subjective tastes.
For example, my personal expectations of Leica image qualities were set by use of a DMR and now a M9. Way back when I first posted my impressions of the S2, I lamented that those expectations were not met. Nice, but not what I expected.
Absolutely nothing wrong with what comes out of the S2, but it didn't match up with the look and feel I was expecting ... where this new H4D/40 is inexplicably closer to doing that ... which was an unexpected bonus that surprised me in a very positive way, since my intent is to shoot jobs with the MFD and M9 whenever possible. Strange bedfellows to be sure, but I'll take any luck that comes my way.
Oddly, it has restored the old film relationship I once had with a M7 and Hasselblad V ... which were compatible IQs to my eye and the mainstays of my gear closet.
-Marc
I think you are right in that respect ... MFD choices are more similar. However, I do believe they exist. There was definitely a different look to the Leaf Aptus 75s I used on a Mamiya 645 with Zeiss FE lenses ... one I liked quite a bit BTW.Marc, indeed my feeling is that the IQ differences between different MF sensors/systems may not be as big as those between various DSLRs, M9 and m4/3.
But anyways, I do not doubt that you didnt like the S2 files as much as the Hassy ones, and yes, I also do believe I like the Rollei lenses with Dalsa sensor images from my Hy6 quite a bit, I just wondered how big/small differences are.
Let's face it, this forum has more than it's fair share of wealthy enthusiast photographers, many of whom are Leica users and aficionados. If Leica can't sell the S2 here, and it appears there are few takers, then what chance has Leica of selling it elsewhere?Back to the original post it does seem that at least in this forum the interest in the S2 is not really the highest.
And if the new Pentax is as good as it looks on paper and starts selling in the U.S. it will be more negative news for Leica. Sad!Exactly and me included there are many Leica fans here. It's just not turning heads as Leica hoped
Let's face it, this forum has Shredded cheesemore than it's fair share of wealthy enthusiast photographers, many of whom are Leica users and aficionados. If Leica can't sell the S2 here, and it appears there are few takers, then what chance has Leica of selling it elsewhere?
Actually, I would do the opposite ... if I were managing the S2 project, I get the best team of photo software people on building some S2 profiles for inclusion in Light Room 3. Leica should have had their own S2 software, but didn't, so the next best thing would be to get some great profiles up and running ASAP. Not to mention getting the 35 and Macro out the door so pros would take the system more seriously.Peter,
for me its not religious I just share my experience and my opinion, and it seems we have a different opinion/experience regarding the M9 vs M4/3 vs D700 (and again, I do like all three cameras).
Back to the original post it does seem that at least in this forum the interest in the S2 is not really the highest. This sounds maybe weired but if I was a manager at Leica I would step out of the S2 project as fast as possible and would see that I get the M9 production running, and would see if I could offer Leica lenses in mounts for Canon/Nikon etc.
I wish Leica success but I just believe they have the wrong strategy with the S2system-at least pricewise.
So its the same for the Hasselblad H4D-40...I To name a few is the format - it isn't 35mm and it isn't quite medium format - it's somewhere in between.