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LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

carstenw

Active member
I have always biked a lot, but to be honest, Berlin is just so well connected with trains, trams and buses that since I moved here I have had zero desire for a car. Now that I have a small daughter, my girlfriend is making noises in that direction, but in any case, it will be her car :)
 

routlaw

Member
would you consider given an idea of a good geared head?

thanks
MAtto
Just noticed this thread, thought I would contribute a bit. Have used the Bogen/Manfrotto 410 for years, but its somewhat of a love hate relationship. It works well enough but some of its attributes I find a bit aggravating at times. Unfortunately the 410 & 405 models of geared heads are the only show in town for field work other than the uber expensive Cube and its Korean knockoff, which incidentally is now almost as expensive as the Cube.


Chris, I am currently using the Manfrotto 405, so I hope I will be okay there.
Have just found and ordered a lightly used Linhof 3-way leveling head that seems to get high praise for those who have used it. Not convinced though it will effectively replace a geared head for LF work. Yet to be determined, but it is light and purportedly very rigid. The 405 appears to be quite a bit heavier & bulkier than its 410 counterpart for field work, but saving every pound one can lugging this stuff around is worth it IMO... especially if one is doing this from a bicycle. The 410 is adequately rigid enough when using film, but does flex somewhat when I use my Bettelight scan back. In addition using the 410 with very long lenses might also be pushing the envelop.

I do agree with another post about the use of a PT head for LF work. I have yet to find one that did not throw level off kilter just a tad when you clamp down.

Hope this helps.

Rob
 

carstenw

Active member
Yeah, the 405 is heavy and bulky. One day I will get the Cube, but not today. There are too many other attractive things to get for that money at the moment :)
 

Tex

Subscriber Member
Carsten, I shoot 11x14 LF now (previously 45, 57 & 810) and use a B2 Arca.

I had a Cube 2-3 years ago and liquidated it within a week. My B2 (purchased in 1997) has been around the world numerous times with everything from a 600mm Nikon lens to a 210mm XL Schneider mounted on it - never has it failed.

I would appreciate if someone would explain the advantage of using an Arca Cube with LF?

Best of luck with your LF work!





Yeah, the 405 is heavy and bulky. One day I will get the Cube, but not today. There are too many other attractive things to get for that money at the moment :)
 

carstenw

Active member
Hmm, I hadn't really thought about it that way, but FWIW I also shoot MF, both Hasselblad V and Contax 645, and there it does make sense.

I wonder if the Cube gets a bit lost under an LF camera. Jack might know...
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Cube works great on 4x5, just like with any other camera. Big advantage to any geared head over a single-lock ballhead is the ability to level the roll axis separate from the pitch axis, separate from yaw. However, the B2 is not single-lock, so you can adjust pitch and roll and yaw separately, and it was my preferred head for my big format cameras too. Only advantage the Cube has here is for smaller cameras, the geared movement and then total weight, as the B2 is about 2x the weight and not geared, but definitely more rigid when locked up. (I think you can park your car on a B2 and not hurt it.)

FWIW, I found the Cube was too small for my 8x10 camera and why I used the bigger Arca B2. IMO the Cube is good for up to 5x7, or maybe a Phillips 8x10, but not the real big boys.
 

Tex

Subscriber Member
Carsten, Jack is obviously the voice of authority here with many years of experience and has "nailed it on the head" with respect to the virtues of the B2 versus the Cube.

The Cube is NOT the head of choice with LF.

The B2 is a joy to use with LF gear and will easily support the new big Mercedes SUV that your girl friend is going to purchase.

Have fun!


Yeah, the 405 is heavy and bulky. One day I will get the Cube, but not today. There are too many other attractive things to get for that money at the moment :)
 

viablex1

Active member
Just noticed this thread, thought I would contribute a bit. Have used the Bogen/Manfrotto 410 for years, but its somewhat of a love hate relationship. It works well enough but some of its attributes I find a bit aggravating at times. Unfortunately the 410 & 405 models of geared heads are the only show in town for field work other than the uber expensive Cube and its Korean knockoff, which incidentally is now almost as expensive as the Cube.




Have just found and ordered a lightly used Linhof 3-way leveling head that seems to get high praise for those who have used it. Not convinced though it will effectively replace a geared head for LF work. Yet to be determined, but it is light and purportedly very rigid. The 405 appears to be quite a bit heavier & bulkier than its 410 counterpart for field work, but saving every pound one can lugging this stuff around is worth it IMO... especially if one is doing this from a bicycle. The 410 is adequately rigid enough when using film, but does flex somewhat when I use my Bettelight scan back. In addition using the 410 with very long lenses might also be pushing the envelop.

I do agree with another post about the use of a PT head for LF work. I have yet to find one that did not throw level off kilter just a tad when you clamp down.

Hope this helps.

Rob

thanks Rob, I didn't want to burn you out, hell I got tons of questions still, waiting for some extra work to get a lens a back and a good tripod head I have a good pair of sticks..
 

routlaw

Member
Carsten, Jack is obviously the voice of authority here with many years of experience and has "nailed it on the head" with respect to the virtues of the B2 versus the Cube.

The Cube is NOT the head of choice with LF.

The B2 is a joy to use with LF gear and will easily support the new big Mercedes SUV that your girl friend is going to purchase.
Tex, I am curious, can you explain what it is you did not like about the Cube and why you do not think it is the head of choice for LF. I don't own one but would have thought it to be ideal for LF work. I have never cared for ball heads for LF work, though I understand the B2 or Z2 as it is now called by Linhof is quite a bit different.

Thanks

Rob
 

carstenw

Active member
I don't know if this is the issue, but the Cube is very compact, so placing it underneath a (fairly large) camera baseplate might restrict access to it somewhat...
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Tex, I am curious, can you explain what it is you did not like about the Cube and why you do not think it is the head of choice for LF. I don't own one but would have thought it to be ideal for LF work. I have never cared for ball heads for LF work, though I understand the B2 or Z2 as it is now called by Linhof is quite a bit different.

Thanks

Rob
The issue is rigidity with heavy cameras and Tex shoots ULF -- 8x10 and larger. And the Cube isn't nearly as sturdy as the big Arca B2 once you get over about 8 Kilos of gear on top of it... Seriously, for really big, tall or heavy cameras, the B2 is one of the best options. It's stated carry weight is like 75 kilos, and I think it will easily support twice that -- it's a freaking rock.
 

routlaw

Member
The issue is rigidity with heavy cameras and Tex shoots ULF -- 8x10 and larger. And the Cube isn't nearly as sturdy as the big Arca B2 once you get over about 8 Kilos of gear on top of it... Seriously, for really big, tall or heavy cameras, the B2 is one of the best options. It's stated carry weight is like 75 kilos, and I think it will easily support twice that -- it's a freaking rock.
Whoops! Just realized I referred to the Z2 as a Linhof... a guy might get shot around here misnaming products like this. :ROTFL: :eek:

Regardless at 3.4 lbs (without plates) this is a heavy head, probably why I opted for the Linhof 3-Way Leveling head for now. We'll see how it goes and report back. BTW, Tex only mentioned LF in his negative opinion regarding the Cube, not ULF such as 8x10 etc so it seemed he did not like the Cube for any LF photography regardless of size. Perhaps I misunderstood his intent, but found this curious given everything else I have heard about the Cube.

Now if only AR would introduce a 2 lb version of the Z2 (at a reasonable price, LOL), it would certainly get my attention.

Rob
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
BTW, Tex only mentioned LF in his negative opinion regarding the Cube, not ULF such as 8x10 etc so it seemed he did not like the Cube for any LF photography regardless of size. Perhaps I misunderstood his intent, but found this curious given everything else I have heard about the Cube.
Well I know him, so knew what he meant. But if you re-read his very first sentence, I think you'll see more clearly: "Carsten, I shoot 11x14 LF now (previously 45, 57 & 810) and use a B2 Arca."
 

Lars

Active member
FWIW, I found the Cube was too small for my 8x10 camera and why I used the bigger Arca B2. IMO the Cube is good for up to 5x7, or maybe a Phillips 8x10, but not the real big boys.
Yeah once you get into 8x10 you have 3-4x the mass of 4x5, and that mass is at least 2x further away from the tripod head, so stability and head load is a completely different situation.

I've never seen 8x10 referred to as ULF before - usually that term is reserved for formats larger than that. Not that I mind hehe :D
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
And BTW, the Burzinsky is the other HD head to consider, but it's uni-lock. Lars uses that and can tell you more...
 

Lars

Active member
And BTW, the Burzinsky is the other HD head to consider, but it's uni-lock. Lars uses that and can tell you more...
Burzynski is great when locking power is top priority.I think it would be a ridiculous level of overkill with 4x5 though, there are better choices. And it does not have the fine control of a geared head like the Cube. I use it with my 8x10 monorail which has geared movements, so there is little need for a geared head with that camera.
 

carstenw

Active member
Lars, the Burzynski looks like a neat head for when you don't need to flop over 90 degrees. Somehow it completely escaped my radar when I bought the RRS BH-55. How well does it resist creep when tightened down, something which I have had with every ballhead I have owned so far?
 

carstenw

Active member
Does anyone know how thick the Chamonix film holders are? I am wondering how thick 5 of them will be in my bag...
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Lars, the Burzynski looks like a neat head for when you don't need to flop over 90 degrees. Somehow it completely escaped my radar when I bought the RRS BH-55. How well does it resist creep when tightened down, something which I have had with every ballhead I have owned so far?
Carsten, to put a 4x5 (or almost any view cam) vertical, you simply remove the back and re-install it vertical ;) Most 4x5 film holders are about 7-8mm thick...
 

Lars

Active member
Lars, the Burzynski looks like a neat head for when you don't need to flop over 90 degrees. Somehow it completely escaped my radar when I bought the RRS BH-55. How well does it resist creep when tightened down, something which I have had with every ballhead I have owned so far?
Hahaha you have no idea how funny that question is. It will hold a 100 kg load no problem. My 8x10 monorail is 15+ kgs when everything is there, and the Burzynski holds it tight like a rock. Like I said - it's complete overkill for 4x5. It's just too big. I know, bigger is better, but there are limits hehe.
 
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