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LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

carstenw

Active member
I am looking at both Cambos and was also recommended older Sinars, but as I understand it, both of those take different lens boards than the Technika-style one on my 210AS. Is there another brand which doesn't require an adapter (which can apparently cost as much as the cheap 4x5 camera, defeating the point a bit)?
 

Chris C

Member
r LF tightening creep is irrelevant as you do final cropping using shift movements. You also tend to not crop so tightly in LF.
Lars - With respect; creep is very important to architectural photographers, particularly with respect to nailing both the vertical and the horizon and that's what I had in mind when recommending a geared head. Architecture can be hard on the eyes, particularly using wide angle lenses; I've photographed modern constructions with 'creative' notions of what is vertical and horizontal and knowing one is framing the image from a solid base of at least the camera being properly set in the horizontal and vertical planes gives one a fighting chance with the photograph.

If photographing a building square-on say, it was always my preference to 'square up' the image on screen with geared-head rotation rather than by rotating the rear standard and then transferring that amount of rotation to the front standard. I'm sure some others might prefer the second technique over the first, but for me a tripod head with creep is as useless as a spirit level which doesn't show true level [and yes they do exist!].

................. Chris
 

Lars

Active member
Lars - With respect; creep is very important to architectural photographers, particularly with respect to nailing both the vertical and the horizon and that's what I had in mind when recommending a geared head. Architecture can be hard on the eyes, particularly using wide angle lenses; I've photographed modern constructions with 'creative' notions of what is vertical and horizontal and knowing one is framing the image from a solid base of at least the camera being properly set in the horizontal and vertical planes gives one a fighting chance with the photograph.

If photographing a building square-on say, it was always my preference to 'square up' the image on screen with geared-head rotation rather than by rotating the rear standard and then transferring that amount of rotation to the front standard. I'm sure some others might prefer the second technique over the first, but for me a tripod head with creep is as useless as a spirit level which doesn't show true level [and yes they do exist!].

................. Chris
Sure - I'm not an architectural photographer. A good geared head - if it's good - is of course ideal for such an application, rather than an ordinary ball head. But we're not talking about an ordinary little ball head here.

EDIT: Ok I had to test... using my Burzynski ball head there's zero creep when using an 8x10 and a 240 mm lens.
 
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Oren Grad

Active member
I have a question though: I was surprised to find out that the aperture lever has no detents, is that standard for LF lenses?
Yes.

I was also surprised to see how compact the lens was, about the size of a MF normal lens.
It's actually not all that small as lenses for 4x5 go - try a 120, 135 or 150 Apo-Symmar, all of which come in Copal 0 rather than Copal 1. Now those are small, and much lighter, too.
 

Oren Grad

Active member
I am looking at both Cambos and was also recommended older Sinars, but as I understand it, both of those take different lens boards than the Technika-style one on my 210AS. Is there another brand which doesn't require an adapter (which can apparently cost as much as the cheap 4x5 camera, defeating the point a bit)?
Very few monorails have been made native to the Technika standard. Linhof made at least two - the Technikardan, which is very pricey, and the Color (not to be confused with the Kardan Color, a different camera entirely).
 

carstenw

Active member
Yes, the Technikardan is drop-dead gorgeous, and I have a few bookmarked in eBay :) However, the prices are still up around 1600-1800 Euro for a relatively complete camera in good shape, and I don't want to spend more than 1/10th that for my first studio 4x5. I have no idea if I will use it much. With the field camera, I feel much more confident, which is why I am aiming at a new Chamonix.
 

carstenw

Active member
Hmm, I hope this doesn't hurt Chamonix's position in the marketplace. Shen Hao is a little cheaper, I believe, and it could be that if people want to make a step up, they step right past Chamonix to a European or North American manufacturer.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
The Shen is all wood, the Chamonix has the CF weight advantage, so I think there's room for both...
 

carstenw

Active member
Get Stroebel's book, it is a storehouse of data. Also I highly recommend Ansel Adam's "The Camera" for a really good primer on view cam basics.
Since this post I ended up re-reading the relevant part of "The Camera", and picked up a few points which I missed when I first read it, since I am more experienced now and am looking for more specific things. Thanks for that.

I also bought Stroebel and am working my way through that. It is somewhat encyclopaedic in nature, and I might add Symmons for a lighter touch, but we'll see.
 
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lilmsmaggie

Guest
Jack,

I was somewhat curious given that you had the choice between Walnut and Canadian Maple when you purchased your Chamonix, why you chose the Canadian Maple?

If this was a stringed instrument such as a violin, viola or cello, I could understand Maple as a choice being that it is a tonewood. But is Maple an unusual choice for a camera body?
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Jack,

I was somewhat curious given that you had the choice between Walnut and Canadian Maple when you purchased your Chamonix, why you chose the Canadian Maple?

If this was a stringed instrument such as a violin, viola or cello, I could understand Maple as a choice being that it is a tonewood. But is Maple an unusual choice for a camera body?
Simple: I liked the look of the black hardware and the light wood, and was in stock where the walnut had a 2-week back-order :D. Aside from that, Maple is very stable and rigid, as well as being lighter in weight than the walnut.
 
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lilmsmaggie

Guest
Simple: I liked the look of the black hardware and the light wood, and was in stock where the walnut had a 2-week back-order :D. Aside from that, Maple is very stable and rigid, as well as being lighter in weight than the walnut.

I see. I also liked the look of the Canadian Maple/Black when I first saw pictures of the Cham. It will be interesting to see how the Teak looks in comparison tothe Walnut. There again, Teak seems to be an interesting choice. The last time I saw Teak used was on the deck of the USS New Jersey :toocool:
 

carstenw

Active member
Probably another question for Jack:

Which RRS plate fits the Chamonix? It looks like it has two screwholes, possibly 1/4", so perhaps the B35:

http://reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/Itemdesc.asp?ic=B35&eq=B35-004&Tp=

I am also wondering which clamp is best. I had considered getting the PCL-1 to gain panning ability with the Burzynski head:

http://reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/Itemdesc.asp?ic=PCL-1&eq=&Tp=

However, I am not sure if the tightening knob might get in the way. If that is the case, I could get a normal LR clamp instead, possibly this, which looks like it would fit in the Burzynski with one of the RRS 3/8"-1/4" bushings:

http://reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/Customkititems.asp?kc=B2-AS-II-1/4-20&eq=
 

carstenw

Active member
Burzynski Ball Head II Mini Preview (field test to come)

Oh, I forgot to mention: my Burzynski Ball Head II got here, and it is a beauty.

I had to tune it a little by loosening the two tightening knobs, and then loosening the two side-screws, getting everything even, and then re-tightening, because it had a funny diagonal tight axis, but now it is just perfect. When I tighten the one tightening knob a bit, it can still tilt forward and backward, but stays tight sideways. It cannot pan though, except completely loose. This could be fixed with an RRS PCL-1 panning clamp, provided that the tightening knob wouldn't bump into the camera's bottom. See my question to Jack above.

The head is dead-simple. It consists, as far as I can tell without actually taking it apart, of two half clamshells, two vinyl bushings, two screws, two tightening knobs with rubber o-rings, and a reversible 1/4" / 3/8" screw which screws into the ball. That is all. The bottom is 70mm across and fits directly into my GT3541XLS, after removing the center plate. I did lose my hook, but then I never used it yet. The head only tilts to about 45 degrees, and so it needs to be used with L-plates or cameras with square formats or rotatable backs, or just to be shot in landscape mode all the time.

The GT3541XLS with center plate+Manfrotto 405 weighs 1,914kg + 1,743kg = 3,657kg, whereas the Burzynski weighs only 1,030kg, for a total of 2,944kg with the tripod, a significant savings. The head is strong as a bull, as amply described by Lars. I can't imagine what would rock this thing, except perhaps a 20x24 camera tilted sideways. Nah, not even that :)

The only problem I have right now is that I am missing the hardware to use with my RRS stuff, so for now, I will have to screw it directly to my cameras, or use my 405. That is not really a problem, since my Chamonix is not here yet (and indeed, hasn't been ordered yet).

I think I will order the PCL-1, but am not completely decided yet if I need panning. It might be handy to have for panoramas with my Leica M or MF kits. Note that the head doesn't rotate in the tripod, and the tight axis is along the split, so really, you need to align the split with the direction you are shooting to get the most of this head. This means setting up your tripod carefully.

.
 
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lilmsmaggie

Guest
Oops! Excerpt from Jack's original review

"The base is made of carbon fiber composite. Here I've mounted a RRS base plate for an Ebony 45S. Also note the knobs that allow locking the rear standard adjustment pins, preventing them from sliding to and fro in the slots when loosened above for rear standard movements --- nice touch:"

Sorry - My bad.
 
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SCHWARZZEIT

Guest
Re: Burzynski Ball Head II Mini Preview (field test to come)

I think I will order the PCL-1, but am not completely decided yet if I need panning. It might be handy to have for panoramas with my Leica M or MF kits. Note that the head doesn't rotate in the tripod, and the tight axis is along the split, so really, you need to align the split with the direction you are shooting to get the most of this head. This means setting up your tripod carefully.
I think you'll definitely want panning capability. When you're composing your frame it will be much easier to make small adjustments instead of having to loosen the ball head and relevel the camera all the time.
 

carstenw

Active member
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