Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 21 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 1006

Thread: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

  1. #1
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,258
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    717

    More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Ok, I'll start this one myself.

    Toyo 45 field camera, Ship Creek, Anchorage, Alaska

    ....Winter!

    Gary Benson (aka Pumpkin Head)
    Eagle River, Alaska

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    309
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Gotta love the big cameras!

    4x5 in Los Alamos


    4x5 in Glenrio


    8x10 paper negative in the kitchen


    8x10 portrait (film)

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Chamonix 4x5, Schneider 110 XL, Ilford FP4+ in HC-110 dilution B. Lighting: 2 Speedotron Force 10.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    My first try with a pinhole!
    Zero Image 4x5 pinhole, FP4+, 14 min. exposure at f/180.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  5. #5
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,258
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    717

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Beautiful photos Jeremy and Francois. I can just imagine how rich the full res images must be. How have you scanned your negatives?

    Here's one of mine...just to keep this thread alive. Taken in the mid-80s with a Cambo 4x5 view camera and Rodenstock 150mm lens (only one I had)....other details are lost in time. Negative scanned on an Epson 2450 flat bed.

    Taken in the small river town of Redwing, Minnesota

    Gary Benson
    Eagle River, Alaska

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Nice picture Gary; you've obviously used some perspective control correction to keep those buildings straight!
    Regarding scanning, I use an Epson V700; not great, but OK for 4x5 when they are not contrasty.
    Here is an image to show the resolution of 4x5. You can read the time on the watch of the gentleman of the left. This would give an enlargement of 40"x50" @ 300 dpi. T-MAX 100, Sinar F2, Sinaron 210mm.

  7. #7
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,258
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    717

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Hi Francois,

    I might have used a bit of tilt on that image, but mostly back then I was just leveling the camera and then trying to use rise or fall to get the buildings right, since I wasn't too confident in the accuracy of my tilts (I sometimes over corrected).

    The detail in your wooded image really is amazing. High end digital, especially medium format (but even 35mm now) has certainly come along ways towards reducing the resolution difference with large format film, but the richness of film is still enjoyable...as well as the experience of shooting large format. I really love the tonality of large format film.

    I'm using an Epson V750 now, virtually identical to your V700. For the price, it works very well. But I never scan anything less than medium format film with it.

    Here's a BW version of my AK RR locomotive that I posted in the earlier thread. Taken with my Ebony 45SU....and a 100% crop from a small section that has a metal plate with lettering on it....you can just make out what some of the words are. Yup, there's alot of detail in this large format film!

    Happy New Year and all the best for 2009!

    Gary

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Hi Gary,

    There is amazing detail in your image, and I agree with you that the richness as well as the process of shooting large format film is quite enjoyable.
    Just composing on the large ground glass is pure joy, even if no picture is taken! I might move up to 5x7 or 5x8 to make the act of composing even more enjoyable.

    Your Ebony 45 SU is probably the nicest non-folding field camera one can own, and is certainly more suited to architecture than my Chamonix.

    Wouldn't it be great if instead of cramming more and more pixels into a 36mm x 48mm sensor, they could make say a modest 22 meg sensor, but 4"x5" in size with enormous 20 x 20 microns pixels? They could make it the size of a double film holder to fit any 4x5 cameras. Such a back would have 2 or 3 stops more dynamic range than current medium format digital backs, and could rival B&W film. Also, they could make special versions for B&W and infrared.

    I know it will happen eventually; I just hope I won't be too old, and that it will be at a price I can afford!

    All the best to you in 2009.

    François

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Lancs, UK
    Posts
    181
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois_A View Post
    Wouldn't it be great if instead of cramming more and more pixels into a 36mm x 48mm sensor, they could make say a modest 22 meg sensor, but 4"x5" in size with enormous 20 x 20 microns pixels? They could make it the size of a double film holder to fit any 4x5 cameras. Such a back would have 2 or 3 stops more dynamic range than current medium format digital backs, and could rival B&W film. Also, they could make special versions for B&W and infrared.

    François
    If it's size you're after, there's always the betterlight backs @ 72x96mm that use the normal 4x5 film holder backs.

    I just don't like the idea of having to carry a laptop as well as the rest of the gear... maybe I'm getting old!

    Graham.

  10. #10
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois_A View Post
    Hi Gary,

    Wouldn't it be great if instead of cramming more and more pixels into a 36mm x 48mm sensor, they could make say a modest 22 meg sensor, but 4"x5" in size with enormous 20 x 20 microns pixels? They could make it the size of a double film holder to fit any 4x5 cameras. Such a back would have 2 or 3 stops more dynamic range than current medium format digital backs, and could rival B&W film. Also, they could make special versions for B&W and infrared.

    François
    Just for the record, 20x20 micron pixels sensors already exist though I am not aware of any of them being employed in commercial or mass produced digital cameras. If you go to either Kodak or Dalsa's website you will see several chips/sensors that have very fat pixels like this. I doubt any of these will ever see their way into mass produced cameras though. Simply a matter of economics since it requires far more money per chip to manufacture them at this size, so the push, much to my chagrin (and probably others) is cramming more pixels into smaller spaces while claiming victory in the pixel war race.

    It is my understanding everything else being equal, smaller pixels will yield more resolution or detail though it comes at the cost of less DR and less headroom for noise regardless of what the camera and chip manufacturers tell you in their marketing schemes. By this I mean if you had two sensors both at 20 mp and one had a 5 micron size pixel while the other had 10 microns the one with smaller microns would theoretically produce finer detail or perceived increased resolution, while the 10 micron size pixel chip would have far greater DR and noise control. Understand this is a gross oversimplification of the situation.

    Interestingly the Betterlight Super 6k-HS I just acquired has a very fat pixel of 12 microns, yet BL claims only 11 stops dynamic range while the MFDB's implementing a 6.8 micron sensor or smaller are claiming 12 stops or more DR. Could there be some "fuzzy math" going on here?

    Hope this helps.

    Rob

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Hi Rob,

    Thanks for the information.

    Regarding your scanning Betterlight back, do you also use it for landscape or for studio application only ?
    Have you done any comparisons with a DSLR or traditional 4x5 film ?

    I am also curious as what factors made you favour a scanning back instead of a medium format digital back + technical camera combination.

    Thanks,

    Francois

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    271
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    46

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Arca Discovery.





  13. #13
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois_A View Post
    Hi Rob,

    Regarding your scanning Betterlight back, do you also use it for landscape or for studio application only ?
    Have you done any comparisons with a DSLR or traditional 4x5 film ?

    I am also curious as what factors made you favour a scanning back instead of a medium format digital back + technical camera combination.

    Francois
    So far I have only used the scanning back in the studio, but do have plans for it as a landscape setup as well, within its limited range where foliage has to be very still. I found a used one then immediately had Betterlight upgrade it to the newer chip and USB controller. So in its newer incarnation I have only been able to use it less than a couple of weeks.

    Many comparisons have been made with these devices to dslr's and large format film. The scan backs image qualities are vastly superior in every way with static objects. I also made some "quasi" comparisons with the scan back vs the multi-shot MFDB's and still found the scan back to be potentially better at least for my needs in the studio and far less expensive solution.

    I bought the scan back primarily to photograph art work which has been a growing part of my business over the years, but also for other studio subjects like products when the budget calls for its somewhat slower workflow and finally for landscape work when appropriate. It was not an easy decision and one that I grappled with for the better part of a year if not longer. I could probably write an entire chapter on this process alone. Understand from my perspective all solutions seemed fraught with compromises so eventually I decided on a rather pragmatic conclusion of putting my "digital eggs in several baskets" rather than just one and doing so for far less money. Customer support at Betterlight is second to none something many of the other camera companies could learn from.

    Eventually I hope to also acquire a 22 mp MFDB as well, preferring those over the 39 mp and higher versions due to their fatter pixel. And in many ways the Hassy CFV II at 17 mp is the most appealing MF solution. When larger files are needed and the scan back not an option the solution would to be stitch a few files together. In the meantime I have been using my D3/Cambo Ultima with Rodenstock digital lenses for this very purpose with excellent results.

    I would be happy answer any other questions you have.

    Rob

  14. #14
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    4,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1253

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Gary and i must be channeling the same muse. taken in 1976, Toyo 4x5, Schneider 210, Tri-x, Hc110

  15. #15
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    4,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1253

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    another, from 1978, same gear

  16. #16
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    4,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1253

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    also 1978

  17. #17
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    4,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1253

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    first shot with my 90mm Super Angulon, 1978

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Beautiful images John!

    Rob, thanks for all the information. I've just read about all the technical info on Betterlight web site. The detail on those panoramas is incredible! The system seems also very well suited for infrared photography by substituting a filter that cuts visible light, instead of the one provided that cuts the infrared light.

    In the studio, do you think one could get good results using tungsten lights like the Lowel ?

    Maybe this set-up, with a good macro lens like the Schneider 80 mm, could be used to scan medium and large format negatives and slides, with results possibly on par with the Imacon. That would certainly help justify the expense!

    Francois

  19. #19
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois_A View Post

    In the studio, do you think one could get good results using tungsten lights like the Lowel ?

    Maybe this set-up, with a good macro lens like the Schneider 80 mm, could be used to scan medium and large format negatives and slides, with results possibly on par with the Imacon. That would certainly help justify the expense!

    Francois
    Hi Francois

    Regarding the tungsten lights, there are many who do use them but one of the problems you will encounter is their propensity to emit infra-red which is not a good thing for digital imaging unless of course you are doing this for an effect. I have tried my own Lowels but get much better results with FLD's, far less noise in the blue channel and you don't have to put up with the heat and higher electric bills. FL's are fairly inexpensive and you can always roll your own from products at the hardware store until budgets allow for designer products. I also tried banks of Solux bulbs given their claims of superiority for lighting, but still found the FLD's to be better.

    The Northlights are nice but they are also very expensive too. You might want to look at Full Spectrum Solutions fluorescent lights/tubes since their specs are about the best I have seen for this type of lighting with lumen to watt output better than HID's with some of their lights.

    Recently there was a discussion on the Betterlight forums about using the scan backs in lieu of drum scanners and Imacons. While I have no direct experience myself the gist of it was the scan backs do as good if not a better job than either. You will loose any plug-ins such as digital ice though so be forewarned post production might take longer with clean up. Some users have also used enlarging lenses with great results apparently. I could be wrong but if memory serves me correct that particular macro lens (Schneider 80mm) does not cover the 72x96 mm format necessary for a scan back, you might want to look into another one.

    Do consider investing in some camera profiling software should you decide to go the BL route. Understand that BL does NOT run any algorithms on their files unlike all other camera manufacturers be it dslrs or MFDB's so if color accuracy is of importance don't overlook this bit of software. Currently I have just started using InCamera from Pictocolor with very good initial results. It only cost $150.00 to download a copy... not too painful.

    Speaking of detail from the Betterlight website I would also encourage you to look at Tom Watsons sight and contributions. There was one pano scan he did at the Univ of Va that is truly astounding and it has hundreds of people in it no less.

    Hope this helps.

    Rob

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Shodoshima, Japan
    Posts
    229
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Some Betterlight users are using Alzo lights as well.

    Kumar

  21. #21
    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    santa cruz, ca
    Posts
    936
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    155

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    a challenging (but rewarding) setup to use in the field).. all with the Betterlight. I've been using one in the field since 2001,and haven't had a single problem with it (and there's still not much that comes close to it for pure image quality)









  22. #22
    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    santa cruz, ca
    Posts
    936
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    155

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    and some more










  23. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Beautiful images Jim even though the web can not do justice to their details and subtleties.
    I visited your website (www.jcollum.com), and was quite touched by the delicacy of the colour and the richness of the B&W of your coloured palladium images. Strong compositions that leaves a feeling of uneasiness about our impact on the planet, as well as our evanescence.

    Having just read the book Digital Negatives by Reeder and Hinkel, this is a technique I would love to try with the QuadTone RIP.

    Rob, thanks again for all the info regarding proper lighting for the scanning back, as well as the importance of profiling software. You mentioned that people had good results digitizing their film with those backs, and this is big plus for me! Regarding the Schneider 80 mm macro, it covers 120 mm at magnification 2:1, 160 mm at 1:1. Since I don't plan on using it for any magnification under 2:1, it should work in theory. The beauty is that at 1:3 magnification for scanning 35 mm film, I would only need 320 mm of bellow extension. This would yield a 6000 ppi scan with the 6000-HS. There would be a four stop loss, and the question is how to light it so that it is scanned relatively quickly at a low ISO to minimize noise?
    BTW, I had the chance to visit your web site (www.roboutlawphotography.com); your pictures are superb! I am especially moved by the ones in b&w in your personal work section!

    Regarding the different scanning backs, I understand that the 6000E-HS is a refurbished model, that the 6000-HS has twice the sensitivity, and the Super 6K-HS has a mode where real resolution is increased by 50% in one dimension and is increased by 50% using interpolation in the other. Is there any other differences that I am missing? What would be the biggest "bang for the buck" for someone with limited fund ?

    Thanks, and all the best to everyone.

    Francois

  24. #24
    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    santa cruz, ca
    Posts
    936
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    155

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois_A View Post
    Beautiful images Jim even though the web can not do justice to their details and subtleties.
    I visited your website (www.jcollum.com), and was quite touched by the delicacy of the colour and the richness of the B&W of your coloured palladium images. Strong compositions that leaves a feeling of uneasiness about our impact on the planet, as well as our evanescence

    Francois
    I have a solo show in Santa Cruz at the Dead Cow Gallery (ya have to live in Santa Cruz to really understand.. it's at the old Tannery). I have about 20 Industrial Platinum over Pigment prints hanging there for January

    If i were to rank the importances of models.. i'd say

    #1: usb model

    #2: high speed (base iso will be iso 200)

    #3: Super 6k res upgrade

    #1 will give you 30 second scans in good light (almost all the time if doing IR)
    #2 will give you better IQ in low light (noticeably better)
    #3 will give you 12,000x9000.. which is very nice.. but the 8000x6000 that comes out of the base 6000 model will give you excellent 30x40" prints

  25. #25
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois_A View Post

    There would be a four stop loss, and the question is how to light it so that it is scanned relatively quickly at a low ISO to minimize noise?

    BTW, I had the chance to visit your web site your pictures are superb! I am especially moved by the ones in b&w in your personal work section!

    Regarding the different scanning backs, I understand that the 6000E-HS is a refurbished model, that the 6000-HS has twice the sensitivity, and the Super 6K-HS has a mode where real resolution is increased by 50% in one dimension and is increased by 50% using interpolation in the other. Is there any other differences that I am missing? What would be the biggest "bang for the buck" for someone with limited fund ?

    Francois
    Francois,

    Thanks so much for the nice compliments about my work. And I agree Jim has some very nice work up there as well, pretty interesting images indeed!

    I would like to add some other comments to what Jim has stated. In discussing these issues with Mike Collette many times he informed me that studio photographers appreciate the upgraded chip the most with double the sensitivity and I would agree with this premise. The newer chip seems to image better than the one stop increase would indicate and produces far less noise than the older chip in the E models. Mike also went on to say that location/landscape photographers tend to appreciate the USB capabilities the most. To the point the 6000-HS is to my way of thinking the best bang for the buck. I have yet to use the additional resolution on my Super 6K-HS, for on the thing the resolution on this thing is already so "sick and twisted" as is without interpolating up half of the res.

    So in effect if you are planning on using a scan back with emphasis in the studio I would flip Jims #1 & #2 in order of importance. With scan backs in the studio you can never have enough light. Forget about shooting at ISO 200 with a 120 sec line time, never going to happen with continuous lighting... well unless the lights are within inches of the subject and even then it will be pushing it. However the bright side is that what noise you do have can easily be dealt with.

    One last note about the 6000-HS, the supply of these chips as I understand are getting low and Kodak has discontinued making them. In other words if you are committed to doing one of these don't hesitate to do so.

    Rob

    Rob

  26. #26
    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    santa cruz, ca
    Posts
    936
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    155

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    yes.. i'd agree with that flop... i was posting from the perspective of a field photographer, rather than studio..where lightweight is more important to me.... not so much of an issue in the studio

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    Francois,



    So in effect if you are planning on using a scan back with emphasis in the studio I would flip Jims #1 & #2 in order of importance. With scan backs in the studio you can never have enough light. Forget about shooting at ISO 200 with a 120 sec line time, never going to happen with continuous lighting... well unless the lights are within inches of the subject and even then it will be pushing it. However the bright side is that what noise you do have can easily be dealt with.

    Rob

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    309
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    In the studio the 8k is quite fun to use :-)

  28. #28
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,258
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    717

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    Gary and i must be channeling the same muse.
    Yes, I think we must be....but you're doing a MUCH better job of it!

    Terrific images from everyone here. I really enjoy seeing these....and learning more about the Betterlight backs.

    I hope that once the weather warms up a bit here in Alaska (which may not be until Spring arrives in April), I'll get outside with my 4x5 again and take some new photos to share.

    Gary Benson
    Eagle River, Alaska

  29. #29
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Jim

    A couple of questions when you get the time. What lenses with the BL have you found to be the most useful in the field? And what lenses would you not suggest using? The reason I ask the second question, is recently I picked up a copy of the Schneider 210 APO MC but have found it has noticeable axial aberration, meaning the red channel is soft when the blue and green are in sharp focus.

    Also how much post production work are you doing to clean up the RGB bleeding that often occurs with scan backs in the field with moving objects?

    Thanks

    Rob

    [QUOTE=JimCollum;67271]and some more

  30. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Lancs, UK
    Posts
    181
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    One last note about the 6000-HS, the supply of these chips as I understand are getting low and Kodak has discontinued making them. In other words if you are committed to doing one of these don't hesitate to do so.

    Rob
    Rob, do you mean Kodak is dropping the 6000-pixel CCD only?
    If they drop the higher ones as well, I guess that would ruin future plans to upgrade?


    Would it be possible for someone here to post a link to a full-size betterlight file? I'm still sitting on the fence on this one, and it may help me choose a direction

    Graham

  31. #31
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by shakeshuck View Post
    Rob, do you mean Kodak is dropping the 6000-pixel CCD only? If they drop the higher ones as well, I guess that would ruin future plans to upgrade?

    Would it be possible for someone here to post a link to a full-size betterlight file? I'm still sitting on the fence on this one, and it may help me choose a direction

    Graham
    As far as I know its only the Super 6K-2 chip that goes into the Super 6000-HS they has been discontinued, but if you are serious about one of these I would get in touch with Mike Collette and ask just to be sure. Mike reported this on the Betterlight forums awhile back and bought up the remainder of the stock on hand from what I remember. Regardless he is the best one to inform you of the situation.

    Rob

  32. #32
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Lancs, UK
    Posts
    181
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    As far as I know its only the Super 6K-2 chip that goes into the Super 6000-HS they has been discontinued
    Rob
    Thanks, Rob.

    For forum users' info:

    Kodak has discontinued the 6K and the 10K chips, but Betterlight have stocks to keep manufacturing until the end of the year + a two year warranty on all units.

    The only model they have sold out of is the 6000-HS (whether or not that means they won't be making any more, I am unsure).

  33. #33
    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,399
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    wow more images please!!!!

  34. #34
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    My first effort using the Betterlight for landscapes from yesterday.

    Rob

    Madison River Road

    Schneider APO Super Symar HM 120 lens @ F16 1/120 sec line time ISO 800
    Last edited by routlaw; 21st October 2009 at 18:49.

  35. #35
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Beautiful tonality Rob!

    That exposure ended up being around 67 seconds if my calculations are right, which is quite reasonable in the field.
    At iso 800, can you get a noise free 16x20" enlargement ?

    Thanks,

    Francois

  36. #36
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois_A View Post
    Beautiful tonality Rob!

    That exposure ended up being around 67 seconds if my calculations are right, which is quite reasonable in the field.
    At iso 800, can you get a noise free 16x20" enlargement ?

    Thanks,

    Francois
    Thanks Francois. You just about nailed it, 1 minute, 6 seconds to be exact. When I set this up I only had about 30-40 minutes before the sun went down behind mountain range over my left shoulder but it gave me just enough time to run several iterations of this image along with one other point of view.

    On one image at ISO 200 with a 1/30th second line time & F16 the exposure was just a tad over 4 minutes. I was a bit worried about this one due to the light breeze that started just after setting up the shot (murphy always seems to be along for the ride) but the tones in that image are buttery smooth and eliminating any movement in the foreground grasses was not too difficult.

    I also ran at least one capture with an ISO of over 2000 and much to my surprise noise level was really not that bad... I would say far less than what film grain would have conveyed with 4x5 sheet film. Most of it was in the upper left hand corner of the sky where my polarizer was kicking in. Anticipating this might happen I also ran a few images sans polarizing filter with a much cleaner sky.

    Of special note too I setup a couple images with my Nikon D3/24-70 lens combo and even scanning at 50% resolution with the BL to equal the D3 file size (both were around 35mb), the D3 image looked a bit pathetic and dysfunctional by comparison though the D3 colors were very nice.

    So yes to answer your question producing a 16x20 print from these files would be a walk in the park and I would have no reservations about going much larger.

    Rob

  37. #37
    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    KEMPTEN / GERMANY
    Posts
    1,396
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    116

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Here an image taken in Causse Mejan , South of France .
    ARCA-SWISS 4x5 F-LINE METRIC , RODENSTOCK APO SIRONAR 5,6/135mm , ILFORD DELTA 400 (exposed as 250) , ID11 1+1

    Attachment 11827

  38. #38
    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    KEMPTEN / GERMANY
    Posts
    1,396
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    116

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Birches

    Attachment 11846

    ILFORD DELTA 400 ID11 1+1
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  39. #39
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Here an image taken in Causse Mejan , South of France .
    ARCA-SWISS 4x5 F-LINE METRIC , RODENSTOCK APO SIRONAR 5,6/135mm , ILFORD DELTA 400 (exposed as 250) , ID11 1+1
    Nice work, looks like a great place to visit. Also have the same rody lens, probably all around my best LF lens. Very sharp!

    Rob

  40. #40
    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    KEMPTEN / GERMANY
    Posts
    1,396
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    116

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Rob

    To get to that place I had to walk about 4km on very narrow footpaths .
    The gras in the foreground moved softly in the wind , like very soft waves of an ocean .
    I have been in this area for about 7 hours and did not meet a single human being . My ears got so sensitive , that I could hear the slightest noise .
    That was a day of great , great happyness for me . Being in nature just with my own .
    Sorry , I have no names for these three "rock monsters" .

    Jürgen

  41. #41
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Rob

    ... The gras in the foreground moved softly in the wind , like very soft waves of an ocean...

    I have been in this area for about 7 hours and did not meet a single human being . My ears got so sensitive , that I could hear the slightest noise .


    Jürgen
    Jurgen

    You just gotta love it when that happens!

    Rob

  42. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    309
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!



    4x5

  43. #43
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    One from the weekend, Betterlight Super 6K-HS, Schneider APO 210 Lens

    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  44. #44
    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,399
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    One from the weekend, Betterlight Super 6K-HS, Schneider APO 210 Lens







    Hey man nice shot, what a good shot man....
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  45. #45
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by viablex1 View Post

    Hey man nice shot, what a good shot man....
    Thanks Matt, much appreciated! One can sure become addicted to the image quality from the Betterlight for sure.

    Rob

  46. #46
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,285
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1022

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    One can sure become addicted to the image quality from the Betterlight for sure.

    Rob
    Indeed they can! Great image!

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  47. #47
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Beautiful image Rob!
    It reminds me pictures from Eliot Porter's Southwest b&w.
    Your images have the subtlety, richness of tones and 3d look of those 8x10 and 11x14 contact prints.

    We've all heard the argument that anything above 360 ppi is wasted, and therefore my Canon 5D should produce a perfect 8x10, indistinguishable from an 8x10 produced by any higher resolution cameras, yet my eyes tell me that there is a difference, that something is missing, and that those contact prints and Rob's images are in another league.

  48. #48
    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,399
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Can't wait to see some more and believe me it beats standing around in a pharmacy!!!

  49. #49
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    Many thanks Jack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois_A View Post
    Beautiful image Rob!
    It reminds me pictures from Eliot Porter's Southwest b&w.
    Your images have the subtlety, richness of tones and 3d look...

    ...and therefore my Canon 5D should produce a perfect 8x10, indistinguishable from an 8x10 produced by any higher resolution cameras, yet my eyes tell me that there is a difference, that something is missing, and that those contact prints and Rob's images are in another league.
    Francois thats some pretty serious company your putting me with, but thanks for the encouragement.

    If its any consolation please understand I often (make that almost always) edit an image, then re-edit several times before I get it right (if ever) even with the Betterlight. Regardless of the gear the whole process can be a very humbling experience... well at least for me. With that workflow suffice it to say I am not a "drive by shooter".

    Make no mistake however, these backs do produce a file unlike anything else I have seen, except for perhaps the multi shot MFDB's. There is a clarity, and depth to the values, and hues (when working with color) which seems veiled and opaque with bayer sensors.

    Thanks again.

    Rob

  50. #50
    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    497
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: More Fun with Large Format Film Images!

    One more from last weekend.

    Rob

    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •