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The M9 Chat Box

charlesphoto

New member
Here's a shot at Glazers today at ISO 1250 with 35 cron wide open. Yes, it's a measly jpeg but I think you get an idea of what the camera does. I also find that since the files are so sharp to begin with they can take quite a bit of noise reduction in post. None here though, just some punched up curves in LR.
 

Hank Graber

New member
Well it seems Leica has been listening. Every feature on just about everyone's wish list (save price) has found it's way into the M9 and X1. Full frame, no IR filters, external exposure control, menu selectable lens, very high res, etc.,...

As far as using Seal and the marketing malarkey about fine wines. Whatever sells cameras. Amateur's are the main consumers of all high end cameras and a manual rangefinder is never again going to be a mainstream pro tool no matter what Leica does to the camera. It's an oddball niche product for amateurs and pros alike. Amazing that it's managed to survive in a digital age where marching to a different drummer and serving anything less then a mass market are generally a recipe for financial failure.

The S, M and X represent an incredible level of engineering execution for tiny Leica. I have no idea how well they will sell, the economy being what it is, but I'm sure at least the M9 will do well. Had they had this trio out at the height of the credit bubble they would not have been able to meet demand on any of them.

Shooting an M9 at ISO 1250-2500 with any Summilux or that .95 unobtanium Noct in low light sounds appealing enough to auction off an organ for:)
 

Erik Five

Member
To all who responded to my last post about the presentation:

I know that the companies make 95% of their money through non Pro´s, BUT my take on the subject is that most people would probably put more faith in a Pro photographers statement about Leica´s cameras and lenses than a singer. Riccis knows Seal and says that he takes great pictures and I believe him when he says that, but I have never seen Seal´s photos so I have no first hand experience on that matter. You dont need a famous person to do a presentation like that. Not many people know the names or faces of famous photogs, but if Leica had one and said "This is famous Magnum/VII(or whatever/whomever photographer)" every Leica D-Lux amateur would believe them and every Pro and amateur that is genuine interested in photos would know it as a fact.
My point is that I dont understand how Seal will sell more cameras from a marketing point of view regardless if you are a amateur or a Pro. I think its cool that Seal is so into cameras and that he actually participates in the forum chats etc, but it doesnt give me the urge to buy a camera. I would much rather have the guy who took the Cuba/Boxing pics up there talking. Someone who could have said "I have used this for work for the last month and I cant see myself using anything else in my line of work". I would presume that the amateurs out there would want this as well. Every time I get a CPN newsletter its some photographer who has used some of the latest equipment who tells about it and since he is a photographer I immediately dont think "does he know what he is talking about?". If Seal would tell me about an artist, a instrument or anything about music I would immediately brush of that little voice in the back of my head that wonders if this person knows what he is talking about or not. As ive said, I dont know Seal´s photographic work so its hard for me to see him as a reliable source when it comes to buying a camera or not. I have a sense that he is pretty darn adequate when it comes to photography though, but I have no first hand experience to back that up. I cant understand that an amateur would think: "Oh, he is a great singer so he must know a lot about cameras as well". We all know he loves photo, gear and has taken photos for many many years, but wouldnt any of you feel that It would be strange if Bruce Springsteen was launching the Canon 1d mkIV and had a pre prod model for a month that he would talk about on stage? I dont think a amateur would be so star struck that he would think of Bruce as an reliable source if he wanted to spend 7K$ on a camera. I know that Leica is very very niché, but still... Again. No offence to Seal. He seems like a very cool guy and I know he has a passion in photography. If seal took the boxing pictures it would have been another matter :D
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Erik your point is well taken and to add my thoughts I would rather see a Pro photographer regardless of celebrity status but more importantly a person that has their preverbal neck on the line day in and day out. I have more faith in someone that works their butt off to make a living and has real clients to answer too and real demands on his gear. To me that says he or she has confidence in the gear to get the work done and done well but also the ability to the demands of robustness in the system and with satisfaction in the repair, service, parts and accessories to maintain their system. You don't just buy a camera you buy a system with all it's parts and I would have more faith with someone that shows that in their daily work. I have no issues with Seal as a person seems like a really nice guy and all that. But like you said he is a hobbyist just like anyone else and if a camera goes down or misses a shot it's not really a issue. There is no risk involved. I want to hear from the cliff hanging shooters with his neck on the line. Too me that would sell camera's and systems. First thing you say to yourself if it is working for him or her than it will work for me.

But I will say it was nice listening to him and his enthusiasm towards shooting Leica's but that alone won't sell me put the next guy up that is ripped to shreds from hanging off the cliff trying to get a shot for a client. Now that says something
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Ahhh, if it were only true. Unfortunately, people say one thing, but very often do the opposite.

These Trade show type presentations often have some celebrity as a draw, something to slap faces and get mass attention. Nothing more to it IMO.

I also wonder if a well known photographer ... or at least one that's busting a hump really would sway me? Since I don't like the Cuba boxing pics at all ... that wouldn't, and didn't, work on me. In fact it makes me suspect the camera isn't what I'm looking for ... since it looks so ... digital ... which the DMR and M8 did not. But I chalk it up to over processing and will reserve judgement until I see more stuff from the M9 ... especially some B&W stuff.

So far, people posting barely focused images with horrible WB aren't doing Leica any favors. :rolleyes:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
So far the only thing I have seen and I am seeing some red bias in most images but Jono's are looking much better

http://www.slack.co.uk/M9

I think and i don't have the damn thing but a lot of people are shooting with the shipping firmware and the new firmware is what they should be updating which is 1.02

I don't understand why their is no immediate announcement on this but any dealers out there i would advice your customers to update when they get home with it. I'll be perfectly honest here I am seeing a heavy red bias and will reserve judgment on this because LR, ACR, Aperture and C1 will mostly likely need a update as well.

But I could use some raws to test it out more and pick it apart
 

JanRSmit

New member
Erik your point is well taken and to add my thoughts I would rather see a Pro photographer regardless of celebrity status but more importantly a person that has their preverbal neck on the line day in and day out. I have more faith in someone that works their butt off to make a living and has real clients to answer too and real demands on his gear. To me that says he or she has confidence in the gear to get the work done and done well but also the ability to the demands of robustness in the system and with satisfaction in the repair, service, parts and accessories to maintain their system. You don't just buy a camera you buy a system with all it's parts and I would have more faith with someone that shows that in their daily work. I have no issues with Seal as a person seems like a really nice guy and all that. But like you said he is a hobbyist just like anyone else and if a camera goes down or misses a shot it's not really a issue. There is no risk involved. I want to hear from the cliff hanging shooters with his neck on the line. Too me that would sell camera's and systems. First thing you say to yourself if it is working for him or her than it will work for me.

But I will say it was nice listening to him and his enthusiasm towards shooting Leica's but that alone won't sell me put the next guy up that is ripped to shreds from hanging off the cliff trying to get a shot for a client. Now that says something
Guy, Erik,
Why should i, as an amateur, give more thrust to a pro, like you Guy for instance (no pun intended), than to a famous person like seal? Not all pro's are like you describe, nor does that give me an indication whether that particular system is ok for me.

At the end of the day i believe it is about what suits one selves. Just like you said in earlier posts: give me some raw to start with, explain how test was done, above all take the time to test for yourself before engage in a system with its support. Indeed one buys a system and the support backing it up, regardless of what brand or model you buy.

So i do believe from a marketing point of view, which in essence about getting awareness, Seal is as good as any other well known person, not necessarely a famous photographer. For me personally the choice to buy or not is based on my own as objective as possible evaluations, with a touch of bias towards Leica.
Forums like these give me value in those evaluations, as do certain review sites, simply because the contributos/reviewers focus more on arguments (facts as they perceive it) than on unfunded opinions. Sites like the Jono also as it gives his experience and the results to accompany his findings.

Lookin forward to yours and others findings regarding the Leica paradigm.

Jan R. Smit
www.janrsmit.com
 

fotografz

Well-known member
So far the only thing I have seen and I am seeing some red bias in most images but Jono's are looking much better

http://www.slack.co.uk/M9

I think and i don't have the damn thing but a lot of people are shooting with the shipping firmware and the new firmware is what they should be updating which is 1.02

I don't understand why their is no immediate announcement on this but any dealers out there i would advice your customers to update when they get home with it. I'll be perfectly honest here I am seeing a heavy red bias and will reserve judgment on this because LR, ACR, Aperture and C1 will mostly likely need a update as well.

But I could use some raws to test it out more and pick it apart
Juno's stuff looks a ton better. I went right to his wedding stuff, and that looked pretty good. I still will reserve judgement until I get it in hand and do my own B&W processing. If the B&W tonal response is like the D3X, it'll be a winner. Black blacks yet with shadow detail and white whites without being blown is a Leica hallmark ... which the DMR and the M8 delivered in spades. That's all need, and it's going straight to "Felix's Bag of Tricks" ... ;)
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Maybe they had the intention to show that the M-system can be indeed a "modern" camera which fits in todays life.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
One either loves Leica despite its imperfections or one doesnt - pretty simple really.

A 17 megapixels if the IQ is as good as the M8 will do me just fine for pretty much everything I wish to shoot handheld. I could care less about high ISO autofocus image stabilisation or a thousand programmable commands involving ten buttons 50 menus and six scroll wheels - been there done that - life is too short for CaNikon 'quality'.

I want compact glass that gives me real usable fast wides and 50's and Leica is the only company that can give me that in full frame 35mm land.

Yeah I am totally happy with the announcements - trying to stop myself ordering a Noctilux to go with the first M9 - so glad to have stayed the course and kept all my M glass!
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I could care less about high ISO autofocus image stabilisation or a thousand programmable commands involving ten buttons 50 menus and six scroll wheels..
That one aspect, most other camera makers have no clues about.

There is a variety of combicams mushrooming now.

One thing that I can use, a coffee maker (OK, espresso for Guy :ROTFL:), is sadly absent.
 
A

Alexander Bauer

Guest
trying to stop myself ordering a Noctilux to go with the first M9 - so glad to have stayed the course and kept all my M glass!
Peter if you need a butler let me know :p

are you talking about 1.0 or 0.95 and have you done any
tests? any difference or improvements with 0.95 version?
 
A

Alexander Bauer

Guest
I too thought Seal was trying his best

along the same road Bryan Adams is a Rock Star and accomplished photographer

anyways FF M Leica is here and thats what is important to me
 
A

Alexander Bauer

Guest
Guy, Erik,
Why should i, as an amateur, give more thrust to a pro, like you Guy for instance (no pun intended), than to a famous person like seal?
Jan R. Smit
www.janrsmit.com
I should say for the obvious reasons

I don't see any pictures posted by Seal here or anywhere (EVEN IF)

and if Guy had this Camera for a day we would have had everything squeezed out of M9 file by now
 

PeterA

Well-known member
The last Nocti I owned was an an f:1 - before Leica bought out the M8. On film - it didnt perform as well as my 50 lux. I am thinking f:0.95 - just because - no special reason except I am a bokeh NUT -:)

and no thanks I dont need a butler - unless you wear short skirts and look like Elle McPherson -or her sister -:)
 
A

Alexander Bauer

Guest
I am a bokeh NUT -:)
thats a good enough reason for me :thumbup:


and no thanks I dont need a butler - unless you wear short skirts and look like Elle McPherson -or her sister -:)
in this case I give up :ROTFL:

I met with her number of times and must admit aside from being blessed with good looks she is down to earth and very humble lady a good business woman too so you guys must have something in common :thumbs:
 

cmb_

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Nice write-up of the M9 by MR at Luminous Landscape if you haven't seen it already.
 
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