The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

The X1 Chat Box

barjohn

New member
The new Canon S90 looks to be a better deal ergonomically and on price. The GF1 or the EP1 are far better deals with their interchangeable lenses. If Oly releases the new faster focus firmware for camera and lens on 9/15 that I saw in a response letter to a 43rds poster in another forum and it is as quick as the Panasonic then it really gets to be hard to justify the X1. I fully expect both Canon and Nikon to jump into the large sensor small body market soon as they have to be watching what has been happening with Panny & Oly.
 

Arjuna

Member
I am slightly surprised by the negative reactions to the X1; resisitance to its price and to its fixed lens, mostly.

Leicas are generally expensive: it seems to me to be a digital CM, and that class of film cameras - compact, high quality, fixed lens cameras like the CM, Contax T's, etc., were expensive in their day. A 24mm Elmarit M lens by itself costs more than US$2000. The lens on the X1 may not have the same optical and mechanical quality as an M lens, but I would guess that it would be designed to match the sensor, so that there should be little or no issues with micro-lenses, IR filters, vignetting, etc.. Although the m4/3 cameras are, in some senses, revolutionary, and produce very good image quality, I think that they are still a step below an M8 in terms of image quality, and I would like to think that three or four years after the M8, the image quality of the X1 would be similar or better - the performance of the X1, unknown at the moment, will determine whether it is worth the price or not, I think. Is its CMOS sensor, of currently unknown provenance, with its currently unknown AA/IR filtration, a match for the Kodak CCD with no AA filter in the M8?

As to the fixed lens issue, there was some market in the past for the CM type cameras, and for the Sigma DP1/2 cameras now, although it may be small. Some of us are lazy about changing lenses, and tend to use just one for the vast majority of our shots. If you are interested in a fairly compact camera, then carrying extra lenses, and paying for Leica-quality extra lenses, may not be all that interesting. Interchangeable lenses would also bring up viewfinder issues, and the big question, which mount? If M-mount, then it becomes a kind of M8.3 lite, or digital CL, and would probably cannibalize M9 sales. For m4/3 mount, it would seem that rebadging a Panasonic body would be the usual response. If Leica were to build their own m4/3 body, then they would have to compete against the manufacturing capabilities of Panasonic and Olympus. m4/3 cameras can already use M lenses, although the crop factor is a bit of a problem, and I understand that there are some issues with wide angle lenses and the lack of micro-lenses on the m4/3 sensors. If Leica were to build their own m4/3 camera, they would probably also want to design and build a set of m4/3-specific lenses, making it a bigger project, and requiring Leica to compete in a relatively low-priced market - sounds like a bad idea to me.

It has a bigger sensor, probably a better lens, and probably better image quality than the Sigma DP and m4/3 competition, albeit with a fixed lens, and it is cheaper and a bit smaller and lighter, than a used M8 with a 28 Elmarith ASPH, which would be the approximate equivalent, although it lack the option of more lenses. It seems like a very interesting camera to me.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I think it's fine here in the Leica forum.. Technically it's a APS-C sensor so it is only slightly smaller than an M8 sensor. Maybe this forum should include more than just M and R systems.
 
N

nei1

Guest
Surely the question is how much leica is in the x1.If the high asa is so good why the flash,flash goes against both my and leicas philosophy as stated in todays speech.This is cultural design to pull up sales from the point and shooters or as the man said;for beginners.Also if the M8 is shelved why not use its sensor.I think more money will be made from each x1 than from the M9 which in comparison looks reasonably priced.
 
Last edited:

nostatic

New member
I have to admit my initial negative impression is wearing and I'm warming considerably to the thought after seeing the photos of the size. *If* the iq is good (especially hi iso/available light) I might pony up $2K for it and just go with DLux4/X1/5Dmk2 as my three "systems".
 

Tim

Active member
I am slightly surprised by the negative reactions to the X1; resisitance to its price and to its fixed lens, mostly.

Leicas are generally expensive: it seems to me to be a digital CM, and that class of film cameras - compact, high quality, fixed lens cameras like the CM, Contax T's, etc., were expensive in their day. A 24mm Elmarit M lens by itself costs more than US$2000. The lens on the X1 may not have the same optical and mechanical quality as an M lens, but I would guess that it would be designed to match the sensor, so that there should be little or no issues with micro-lenses, IR filters, vignetting, etc.. Although the m4/3 cameras are, in some senses, revolutionary, and produce very good image quality, I think that they are still a step below an M8 in terms of image quality, and I would like to think that three or four years after the M8, the image quality of the X1 would be similar or better - the performance of the X1, unknown at the moment, will determine whether it is worth the price or not, I think. Is its CMOS sensor, of currently unknown provenance, with its currently unknown AA/IR filtration, a match for the Kodak CCD with no AA filter in the M8?

As to the fixed lens issue, there was some market in the past for the CM type cameras, and for the Sigma DP1/2 cameras now, although it may be small. Some of us are lazy about changing lenses, and tend to use just one for the vast majority of our shots. If you are interested in a fairly compact camera, then carrying extra lenses, and paying for Leica-quality extra lenses, may not be all that interesting. Interchangeable lenses would also bring up viewfinder issues, and the big question, which mount? If M-mount, then it becomes a kind of M8.3 lite, or digital CL, and would probably cannibalize M9 sales. For m4/3 mount, it would seem that rebadging a Panasonic body would be the usual response. If Leica were to build their own m4/3 body, then they would have to compete against the manufacturing capabilities of Panasonic and Olympus. m4/3 cameras can already use M lenses, although the crop factor is a bit of a problem, and I understand that there are some issues with wide angle lenses and the lack of micro-lenses on the m4/3 sensors. If Leica were to build their own m4/3 camera, they would probably also want to design and build a set of m4/3-specific lenses, making it a bigger project, and requiring Leica to compete in a relatively low-priced market - sounds like a bad idea to me.

It has a bigger sensor, probably a better lens, and probably better image quality than the Sigma DP and m4/3 competition, albeit with a fixed lens, and it is cheaper and a bit smaller and lighter, than a used M8 with a 28 Elmarith ASPH, which would be the approximate equivalent, although it lack the option of more lenses. It seems like a very interesting camera to me.
I can agree with this. I do also think the price will move a bit after release, so it could be less than US$2K. I also think a lot of its appeal will depend on IQ. That will be its make or break. If its IQ is stunning, then there will be those that must have it. With a big sensor not too much crowding of photosites it has the potential to be something unique. If it does not cut it, then sure the GF1 may pip it.
 
Last edited:

monza

Active member
I'm personally very interested in the X1. The build quality of an all metal body is a plus for me. That is value that one simply cannot get in other similar cameras. I've been very happy with my G1 that I've had since last November, but it's a consumer cam with plastic build quality. Not that this is bad, but I grew up using well-built cameras made of metal. I am very careful with the G1 as one drop and it could perhaps shatter. :)

The other reason I'm intrigued is that it uses my favorite field of view, and it has a decent sized sensor. One of my favorite cameras of all time was the D300 which is also APS-C and my most used lens was a 24/2.8 Nikkor. If the IQ is D300-like, this will be a winner, IMHO. At least from my POV. :)
 

Hank Graber

New member
Well if it's a gussied up point and shoot the price is beyond stupid, but if it matches the M8's IQ and responsiveness (which was a step below the film M's but still light years ahead of any point and shoot) then it's a screaming deal. I've always shot my M's with one lens 90% of the time.

A smaller body with a really good optical finder and the focus preset -what else do you need in a street shooter? If it's at the level of the prosumer class DSLR's/M8 in that Barnack like package I'd consider it an improvement on the M8 for daytime documentary work.
 

Tim

Active member
The X1 certainly won't replace the GRD III that I have just ordered. But I may add an X1. For me it will be a bit of a wait and see with the IQ on the GF1 and X1
 

Christopher

Active member
I really don't see a real market for that camera. I mean the idea isn't that bad, but 2000 for it. Fixed lens and so on. I probably would go for a Canon g11 or a small Nikon, Sony or Canon slr.
 
Top