The X1 Chat Box

[Vivek]

The Oly-D 17/2.8 does extend (though not dramatically) when powered up and retracts while idling. This does cause delay. That is more troubling to me than the physical protrusion.

In any event, the m4/rds (being a system camera) is not a fair comparison to the fixed lens P&S X1.

 

[lambert]

Re: X1 lens design all wrong

I couldn't agree more. That lens makes the X1 look like a tarted up point and shoot. A pancake lens, on the other had, would have made it appear like a mini M8/9. And apart from aesthetics those multi tiered lenses just don't inspire confidence. I always feel that if knocked or bumped they may break. Leica is all about quality lenses and they could have done a lot better for $2k.

Amen to that. f/2 designs don't have to be that big. f/1.4 OTOH that's a different story.

Personally I think the collapsible lens makes the camera look cheap, by association to cheap P/S cameras. We're talking a $2K investment here, not a $150 writeoff. A rigid, slightly larger design would have been much more durable, as well as confidence-inspiring - it's not really a pocketable camera anyway.

 

[barjohn]

So what about the Nikon APS C small camera that is rumored to be coming on NikonRumors.com? If it turns out to be an X1 without the red dot and sells in the $1k price range will you pay the extra $1k for the red dot or go with the Nikon.

 

[nostatic]

Nikon gets some things right, and other things pretty wrong. Their p&s cameras are pretty lousy from a UI perspective. I doubt they will go with something as simple/elegant as the X1.

 

[Vivek]

So what about the Nikon APS C small camera that is rumored to be coming on NikonRumors.com? If it turns out to be an X1 without the red dot and sells in the $1k price range will you pay the extra $1k for the red dot or go with the Nikon.

If it happens, I would think:

1. It would have a zoom.

2. One would need to buy Nike software to open/use the RAW files.

3. Would look ugly.

4. No EVF just like the X1.

:ROTFL:

 

[barjohn]

I'm not sure why you think the things you are stating. If they are the real manufacturers of the X1 it may look and function like an X1 without the red dot ala Panasonic with some minor cosmetic differences. On the other hand, if they have been following what has been happening in the m43 world and actually improve on the design, for example supporting interchangeable lenses and an EVF or optical VF with focus confirmation they could have a real winer. We know their noise reduction is good and if you had an D90 in a smaller body without the mirror assembly but mounted Nikor lenses it would be pretty sweet.

 

[Vivek]

Nike software (extra $) you would need it. You need to keep buying new versions as you change the camera model. Fact.

There isn't a single P&S digi cam that Nikon made that has a fixed FL lens. Fact.

Even Oly (who are in on the m4/3rds game) are yet to do a decent camera.
(well, attractive, yes).

Decent EVF, I really wonder how many manufacturers can actually do it. Nikon, AFAIK, never made one.

All that bulk of a regular Nikon DSLR (D90, etc) holds all the electronics. Miniaturization of all that to get a similar performance (noise reduction), remains to be seen.

BTW, Who said Nikon made the X1?!

I'm not sure why you think the things you are stating. If they are the real manufacturers of the X1 it may look and function like an X1 without the red dot ala Panasonic with some minor cosmetic differences. On the other hand, if they have been following what has been happening in the m43 world and actually improve on the design, for example supporting interchangeable lenses and an EVF or optical VF with focus confirmation they could have a real winer. We know their noise reduction is good and if you had an D90 in a smaller body without the mirror assembly but mounted Nikor lenses it would be pretty sweet.

 

[barjohn]

That is the implication of the Nikonrumors article. Don't know it for a fact.

 

[monza]

i would seriously doubt that rumor.

 

[nei1]

Leica are saying its made in germany,maybe that can mean assembled in germany with the parts made elsewhere,I dont think it really matters any more,whats important is the quality of the final product.Initial reports dont critisize the build of the X1 but I cant help but notice that the shutter release and lock look "panosonic".

 

[Lars]

Nike software (extra $) you would need it. You need to keep buying new versions as you change the camera model.

Not quite accurate. Most major software makers support all Nikon cameras, including the weird P6000 with its different extension. Most major software makers also update compatibility as new models hit the market.

Arguing that the $2K X1 comes with software is a bit like a car salesman throwing in a set of floor mats to a new car - hardly a dent in the profit margin. Sometimes you have to take a step back and see the overpricing for what it is.

 

[lambert]

Leica are saying its made in germany,maybe that can mean assembled in germany with the parts made elsewhere,I dont think it really matters any more,whats important is the quality of the final product.Initial reports dont critisize the build of the X1 but I cant help but notice that the shutter release and lock look "panosonic".

Perhaps it is like the M9 which is mostly assembled/manufactured in Portugal and then shipped to Germany where the sensor is fitted and calibrated.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

All that bulk of a regular Nikon DSLR (D90, etc) holds all the electronics. Miniaturization of all that to get a similar performance (noise reduction), remains to be seen.

I doubt it. Most of the bulk is the viewfinder, the mirror box and the mini mirror and AF mechanism. Add the large battery compartment and that is what makes up the bulk of an SLR. The G/F1, EP1 and X1 have proven that.

 

[Braeside]

This is what I cannot understand about the price of these mirrorless designs, they have much less mechanics and parts, yet in many cases cost more than a DSLR.

 

[Vivek]

I doubt it. Most of the bulk is the viewfinder, the mirror box and the mini mirror and AF mechanism. Add the large battery compartment and that is what makes up the bulk of an SLR. The G/F1, EP1 and X1 have proven that.

Having dis-assembled D70, D80, D40x, D200 (pretty much every single model cost me > Euro 150 upwards of Nike software, not to mention the later D300, etc) and an Olympus E-410 in addition to the latest Pana G1, I would say that the electronics/boards need to shrink to bring down the overall bulk.

 

[weinschela]

I too was hoping (in hindsight, very very optimistically) that the X1 was going to be priced at around £1000-1500. I love the style of it, the shutter speed dial etc, pop up flash etc. I do not doubt at all that the X1 will be capable in the right hands of fantastic pics.

At that price I may have been able to sell a few things (including my current camera) to afford it (I prefer to shoot at a single focal length using primes) and like the 35-40mm field of view. I also find using a single focal length forces me to think more about framing shots.

The price of £2000, however, for a fixed focal length knocks it straight out of the ball park for me.

I am also miffed that the optional viewfinder still does not come with an focus assist light (especially as I assume it will not be a cheap accessory).

I think I'll stick to saving for some M-mount primes for my G1. I know Leica is considered 'elite' in terms of its products but I thought they were trying to get new customers (and £1000-1500 for fixed lens camera still isn't cheap).

By pricing it as they did they relegate a lot of keen photographers who are not affluent but who would eventually like to own a leica product to continually dreaming.:sleep006:

Fingers crossed rumours about an pentax mount interchangeable lens Ricoh are true...heres hoping

If thats fails I'd better start saving for a M9 (or M11 as it will be by the time I can afford one )

I thought the price was $2000, not GBP2000. Its still way too expensive.

 

[PeterLeyssens]

Hi,

This is what I cannot understand about the price of these mirrorless designs, they have much less mechanics and parts, yet in many cases cost more than a DSLR.

I guess it's like electric cars. If you buy a purely electric car now, it's also a lot less mechanical than a fuel one. Why is it more expensive ? Because it's newer and for that reason, harder to make. Add to that the lower demand and you've got a more expensive solution which looks like it should be cheaper.

It does have the potential of becoming cheaper, though.



Peter.

 

[kit laughlin]

Hello Guy, et al.,

I like the concept and (time will tell) the execution of the X1. I have a DP-2 with the Freniac grip, an LX-3, a G1 and maybe will have the GF-1—so small cameras are attractive to me (work is done with a brace of D700s).

$2,000 USD expensive? Well, that depends, doesn't it?

Guy's mention of the 'pick up on the way out the door' camera made me think: it is the LX-3, for the moment; it might be the X1 in time.

For me, the 41 EFOV of the Sigma is working. If the X1's sensor is the same as the D300's, AND the lens is stellar, the X1 will make great images. And I use on-camera flash all the time outdoors (set to -2.0 EV!). cheers all :angel:

 

[sizifo]

A more extensive review of the X1 than anything I've seen so far (it's in spanish). At the end there are 2 sample images.

http://www.dslrmagazine.com/pruebas/pruebas-tecnicas/leica-x1-primeros-resultados-2.html

 

[cdnguyen]

Leica Digilux 3 was sold for $1995 when it first debut with interchangeable 4/3rds lenses. The X1 has fixed lens 35mm f2.8 Summarit and it's $2000 ???