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The X1 Chat Box

Paratom

Well-known member
Here is my take:
I compare the x1 to the dp1 and dp2 and assume the following:
1) 35mm FOV is a very good compromise IMO and a very flexible FOV. Maybe the ideal middle between the 28 and 41 of the dp1 and dp2.
2) aps-size sensor sounds like really usable higher ISO. so I expect the x1 to do better than the dp1/dp2 at higher ISO and also slightly better than the EP1 (because of sensor size)
3) sharpness: I assume the sensor wont be as sharp as the M8/M9 since it will have an AA-filter, and also be not as sharp as the dp1/dp2. On the other side the color balance with the foveon sensor seems sometimes not as great as expected, specially with skin colors. So I expect the x1 to be more balanced regarding color.
4) handling: I believe the succes of the x1 will depend a lot on how fast it works, AF, raw write time, shutter lag.

If the handling is fast I believe this will be a great little camera - even though it is not cheap.
 

cookedart

Member
There are some things here that I think are right on with the X1...

Because leica was free to give a fresh start, the shutter dial is biased towards the back of the camera, allowing for shutter speed to be adjusted by your thumb, independant of the shutter finger.

I actually prefer this to an M8/8.2/9, since the on/off/continuous switch is controlled by the index finger as well, and it's easy to accidently hit this and activate a self timer, etc.

The set button in the middle of the four-way controller makes a lot of sense too.

It really does look like a mini M. I wish they could have integrated a fixed-focal rangefinder into it for that price.. how cool would that be?
 
N

nautilus

Guest
Yes, it has IS.
I saw this information on the spanish menue (spanish website review with pictures of the menues).
But there are many unanswered questions about what kind of stabilisation this is. Sensor, lens, auto-ISO adjustment?

At this moment another question comes to my mind. Does the camera offer a video feature? I never thought about that question before because the camera looks like the perfect photographic tool (for me at least). :)
 

Martin S

New member
Anyone seen any results anywhere yet???????

This seems like a great idea, although expensive.

I guess, I need to be shown the merits of this camera before I buy one.

Martin
 

nostatic

New member
I'm assuming it is lens OIS as Leica has worked with Panasonic in the past (and present), making lenses that are stabilized. Since we don't seem to have an idea of who they collaborated with on the body, it isn't clear where they would get that technology. If they were playing nice with Pentax, Sony or Oly then maybe they got some help. If it was Nikon, Canon or Panasonic, then definitely it is lens OIS.

I'm also willing to bet that video would be available via a firmware upgrade, but that Leica isn't going that direction to appeal to the "pure" still photo customers. There is plenty of complaining from some Canikon users over the prospect of video being included in a "serious" camera like the D3x or 1D series. From a differentiation standpoint, I could see Leica saying, "we don't do video" (even though the DLux4 does).
 

johnastovall

Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
A reflection on the X1's Leica heritage

I was reading my Laney's collecter's guide this afternoon and was struck by how the design of the X1 draws on the Leica Standard E for it's look. It shows to me Leica is sticking to it's long heritage and design tradition.

I'm happy to see this. For me the X1 is becoming an camera of interest. I could care less if it's made in Tatooine by nerf herders.
 

nostatic

New member
I'm happy to see this. For me the X1 is becoming an camera of interest. I could care less if it's made in Tatooine by nerf herders.
Do you have a pointer to this rumor? DPR? :ROTFL:

Frankly I think that Jawas are responsible. If anyone could get a Leica to AF, it would be that pesky group.
 

sizifo

New member
Anyone seen any results anywhere yet???????

This seems like a great idea, although expensive.

I guess, I need to be shown the merits of this camera before I buy one.

Martin
Only two places I know:

1) This is an extensive preview in spanish with 2 sample images at the end:

http://www.dslrmagazine.com/pruebas/pruebas-tecnicas/leica-x1-primeros-resultados-15.html

2) And there are a few images at leicarumors:

http://leicarumors.com/2009/09/14/first-images-from-leica-x1.aspx/


It's hard to make anything like a definite judgement from the samples, but it looks very promising to me.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Slowish, fixed lens APS cam, versus a similar concept interchangeable lens camera with fast-ish glass... Hmmmm...

I got to wonder WTF Leica was thinking here. I mean micro 4/3rds has proven itself to be stellar with IQ -- at least as good as APS -- and offers a vast array of interchangeable lens optionss. Can't imagine it would take much innovation for Leica to alter its 4/3rds mount lenses to micro 4/3rds -- or just continue to sell an adapter with them? Shaking my head on this one...
 

Lars

Active member
Hypothetically: If the X1 had a Panasonic label and and a price tag of $1200, how would it be received?
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Slowish, fixed lens APS cam, versus a similar concept interchangeable lens camera with fast-ish glass... Hmmmm...

I got to wonder WTF Leica was thinking here. I mean micro 4/3rds has proven itself to be stellar with IQ -- at least as good as APS -- and offers a vast array of interchangeable lens optionss. Can't imagine it would take much innovation for Leica to alter its 4/3rds mount lenses to micro 4/3rds -- or just continue to sell an adapter with them? Shaking my head on this one...
I see it as the perfect modern replacement of my old favorite, the Rollei 35S. Fixed f/2.8 lens, all controls big, bright and easy to work on the body. Nothing to get in the way or distract, no lens choices, just see with your eyes and use the camera to capture your vision.

Not the same as an interchangeable lens camera, not as versatile in one sense, but inciting a different kind of versatility: creativity within constraints.

If I could afford it, I'd have ordered one already.
 

sizifo

New member
Slowish, fixed lens APS cam, versus a similar concept interchangeable lens camera with fast-ish glass... Hmmmm...

I got to wonder WTF Leica was thinking here. I mean micro 4/3rds has proven itself to be stellar with IQ -- at least as good as APS -- and offers a vast array of interchangeable lens optionss. Can't imagine it would take much innovation for Leica to alter its 4/3rds mount lenses to micro 4/3rds -- or just continue to sell an adapter with them? Shaking my head on this one...
There is one obvious point here that comes to mind. A retracting lens makes it more pocketable than any interchangeable option. (You can say pancake is just slightly bigger, but this slight difference is a lot to some, and an IQ compromise is involved).

The other difference from going the 4/3ds route is that the concept of the camera is very, very clean, and that can count for a lot (we of course still have to see the camera). Along these lines, I'd also second what Godfrey said above.

If they indeed get it right, I'll buy this camera in a heartbeat. Budget permitting.
 
D

ddk

Guest
Slowish, fixed lens APS cam, versus a similar concept interchangeable lens camera with fast-ish glass... Hmmmm...
Would depend on the mount, wouldn't it? What do you think the price of the same body should be without the lens? $1200-$1300? I don't see Leica ever putting out an M mount body for that kind of money, or at least not in the foreseeable future. Then they have come up with a completely new mount and a range of compact glass for this camera, which doesn't make sense at this point in time.

I got to wonder WTF Leica was thinking here. I mean micro 4/3rds has proven itself to be stellar with IQ -- at least as good as APS -- and offers a vast array of interchangeable lens optionss. Can't imagine it would take much innovation for Leica to alter its 4/3rds mount lenses to micro 4/3rds -- or just continue to sell an adapter with them? Shaking my head on this one...
I must admit to having been much keener on the IQ of the micro 4/3rds before getting one, but its debatable now. I'm struggling with my GH1, I don't see the IQ anywhere near APS quality of my dlrs, if anything its closer to my none Fuji P&S cameras. I must even admit that as much as I hated the dp1 its IQ was head and shoulders above the Panasonic. I'm having hell of a time with skin tones, specially with black skin. DR is limited or at least that's how I see it using PS and iso 400 is my acceptable limit for screen and even lower for print. On the glass front I don't find any of the my Panasonic or Oly micro 4/3rds lenses better than adequate and to start using high end Zeiss or Leica glass with various adapters, well, at that point I'll use my dslrs. I don't have a collection of vintage lenses to get excited about using either nor am I in the mood to start one; I can now understand how Jono felt when he got the G1.

I'm not sure how this camera would do and if the Leica name is enough of a pull. For me to start taking it seriously at that price, it must perform at least as good as a similar costing dslr with Zeiss glass...
 
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Godfrey

Well-known member
... I must admit to having been much keener on the IQ of the micro 4/3rds before getting one, but its debatable now. I'm struggling with my GH1, I don't see the IQ anywhere near APS quality of my dlrs, if anything its closer to my none Fuji P&S cameras. I must even admit that as much as I hated the dp1 its IQ was head and shoulders above the Panasonic. I'm having hell of a time with skin tones, specially with black skin. DR is limited or at least that's how I see it using PS and iso 400 is my acceptable limit for screen and even lower for print. On the glass front I don't find any of the my Panasonic or Oly micro 4/3rds lenses better than adequate and to start using high end Zeiss or Leica glass with various adapters, well, at that point I'll use my dslrs. I don't have a collection of vintage lenses to get excited about using either nor am I in the mood to start one; I can now understand how Jono felt when he got the G1. ...
It's amazing to me how opposite my experience with the G1/GF1/GH1 are to this. I find it produces better to on par image quality with all the DSLRs I've been using, from Canon to Nikon to Pentax to Olympus. Color is simply a matter of what I do in rendering the RAW files, with all of them.

Of course, top quality lenses count for all of these cameras. But the G Vario 14-45 produces surprisingly excellent results ... I don't use it much simply because it's too slow for me a lot of the time, but when I am working on a tripod it's produced excellent results. I prefer fast primes for hand-held work.

Which has nothing to do with the X1 ... but such it is. ;-)

DPReview just published a 9 page preview on the X1. I love the design of this camera, everything is beautifully done. I could well be incited to eschew buying the interchangeable lens mFT compact (GF1) I've planned to and buy this instead ... but at rather great additional cost. I'm sure the lens and sensor are going to be excellent.

Hmmm...
 

Martin S

New member
The X1 is a totally different camera than any of the m 4/3's. Single focal length, with a slightly larger sensor. The added cost had better be due to better handling, better interface, and of course, better images (lens, and sensor).

The design is indeed seductive. However, before plunking down $2000, I want to see some credible reviews of the actual imaging results. A debacle like the M8's IR problems would sorely impact on this camera. Let's hope for a "clean" introduction, and review.

Martin
 
D

ddk

Guest
It's amazing to me how opposite my experience with the G1/GF1/GH1 are to this.
That's the beauty of this place, we hope to learn from each other. :thumbup:

I find it produces better to on par image quality with all the DSLRs I've been using, from Canon to Nikon to Pentax to Olympus. Color is simply a matter of what I do in rendering the RAW files, with all of them.
I don't know which dlsrs you have Godfrey but I can't get anything near my lowly Fuji S5 quality from the GH1, love to see some samples, maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Yes, I can vary the colors with processing too but I don't seem to get any decent skin tones, no matter what, specially black skin, do you have any good dark skin samples to post?

Of course, top quality lenses count for all of these cameras. But the G Vario 14-45 produces surprisingly excellent results ... I don't use it much simply because it's too slow for me a lot of the time, but when I am working on a tripod it's produced excellent results. I prefer fast primes for hand-held work.
I find both my 14-140 and 7-14 zooms too slow as well, specially since I find them useless wide open. I almost never use tripods so iso 400 and above is the reality for me when using the current micro 4/3rd zooms. I'm curious about what you're comparing your 14-45 IQ to. I'm asking these questions hoping to be proven wrong, I very much want to like the GH1, for a lot reasons!

Which has nothing to do with the X1 ... but such it is. ;-)

DPReview just published a 9 page preview on the X1. I love the design of this camera, everything is beautifully done. I could well be incited to eschew buying the interchangeable lens mFT compact (GF1) I've planned to and buy this instead ... but at rather great additional cost. I'm sure the lens and sensor are going to be excellent.

Hmmm...
 

zonevt

New member
If the X1 performs well as a compact quality street and travel camera.......I think Leica priced it right. If you buy a used M8 and basic 35mm Summarit F2.5 lens the minimum price in todays market is $3500.......2K for the M8 body and $1500 for the lens. If you buy a used Summarit you might be able to reduce the cost to $3000. This gives you the advantage of adding other M lenses to the M8 in the future at the added cost. If all you need is a quality compact camera with one lens a base price of $2000 seems in line with Leica prices for M cameras.
 
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