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M9 and B&W?

fotografz

Well-known member
Problem Solved!

I knew I could count on you folks. What a great forum ... thanks to Guy and Jack.

Many thanks to Riccis ... per his recommendation, the Ascough Actions arrived today, and the very first attempt did the trick. I'll learn to refine it better, and play with different combo's, but a quick two button click got me closer than an entire day messing around with other approaches. WaHoo!

Color one is basic out of the camera, pic marked "long way there" was the best I could do using other means without spending 1/2 hour doing it, the snappier one is using two actions in the set from Ascough which took 5 seconds. Looks a bit less "digital" and more film like IMO. (I did add some film grain ... maybe a tad to much, but I'll get it right with a little practice).

Anyone want to buy a mint M8 ... ;)
 

TRSmith

Subscriber Member
If nothing else this exercise has been a revelation in terms of understanding that everyone has their own idea of what good B&W conversion should be. It seems to be a very personal thing. And in Marc's case, a search to mimic an already established style. It's very cool that digital allows for so many interpretations.

Strictly in a rhetorical vein I ask how long it will be before the urge to mimic film is behind us. I'm not sure where that desire comes from. Is it nostalgia? Early digital cameras were constantly being compared to film as everyone stood on the verge of switching. But now that the switch has been made, it seems almost counter-productive to be constantly attempting to make the new look old. With all that looking backward aren't we stifling development of the new potential of our era?

Just a random thought. Congratulations on reclaiming your style with the M9 Marc.
 

Brian Mosley

New member
I agree, it's a fascinating subject... I even downloaded the two girls above, couldn't convert from DNG in Lightzone, so did the initial conversion in Capture One 4, and the B&W conversion afterwards.

I'm really annoyed that I can't show the result yet, but pbase seems to have had a very nasty crash... still waiting for the recovery.

Cheers

Brian
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
If nothing else this exercise has been a revelation in terms of understanding that everyone has their own idea of what good B&W conversion should be. It seems to be a very personal thing.
Excellent observation Tim, and well stated! I realized the same thing late last night after reading all of the responses and seeing all of the differing conversions...


Cheers,
 

Cindy Flood

Super Moderator
I should have backed-off. That little thumbnail looks so much more contrasty now that it is posted than it did on my screen. I do think that there is a lot to work with in the M9 file.

Thanks, Guy. I totally spaced out that I had gone back to an earlier version of C1. I had been playing with your files in C1 the day before. After the restore of my system, it was reminding me to upgrade, but I was hesitant to do it till I was sure everything was OK.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Guy,

FWIW, again we are in agreement. (I'm so surprised! :ROTFL:) For the minimal effort, doing a straight C1 conversion, balancing color first, then applying the yellow filter effect, then tweaking clarity and global contrast to taste -- all in C1 -- is about as easy as it can get and the result is superb.

If one needs to add grain, thats another story. And I believe adding grain does two things: One it increase apparent sharpness and two, it stimulates our memory of what B&W should -- or at least used to -- look like...

Personally, I am liking the new paradigm of "grain-free" or at least "noise limited" imagery...

Cheers,
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Marc:

I will add that I actually prefer your "long" conversion above to the 5 second one -- of particular note is the low end detail in the tones of their jeans. I gather you prefer the added contrast in the tonal range just above that, as seen in the telephone pole's wood grain... Clearly it is a case of different strokes, but I am glad you found a solution that works for you!

Cheers,
 

ampguy

Member
lol, I think it may have been by design, optimizing the M8 for b/w with the thin IR cover. For the M9, they need to satisfy the masses, who are still shooting color :p

I agree Roger. IMO this last conversion is as good as any other DSLR, but still a notch behind the M8. That camera does special B&W -- the classic case of a f***-up turning out to be a feature :ROTFL:
 

fotografz

Well-known member
For me, what it all comes down to is having the choice and how long those choices take.

With film, we could select the emulsion and control the processing to get what we wanted given any specific subject matter. Tri-X for street grittiness, Portra 160NC for smooth color portraits, and so on. I just wanted that "urban" B&W option, which I was having difficulty getting with these M9 files. It doesn't mean I want it for all the B&W shots ... like portraits.

BTW, the new conversion I posted above in the size it will be printed (8X10) doesn't exhibit the compression in the darks of a small web jpg. I tend to print B&W on Crane's Museo Silver Rag, which is not a refrigerator white and requires a bit more contrast in the file.

I also feel it will take a day or two to explore all the options these actions provide ... I always overdo anything new a little bit :LOL: But the promise is clearly there and just requires tweaking it all to taste.

However, all taste issues aside, processing speed is of the utmost importance for 80% of my work. The "One Stop Shopping" of Lightroom is the fastest path I know of ... these new actions are one click away, and the file never leaves the Lightroom Library ... which can then be multi-converted to Tiffs for my printer, jpgs for client review, slide shows with music and PDFs that now take the place of proofs.

For certain shots I will most certainly continue to exercise the option of C1.

Good discussion, thanks to all who participated and offered their help and suggestions. Great forum. The best on the web IMHO :thumbs:

-Marc
 

Peter Klein

New member
May an M8 user give a tip? FWIW, I'm not concerned about making my B&W conversions look just like film. I am interested in making them look as beautiful as possible, which may include some characteristics of film.

You're not going to exactly simulate the tone curve of film, you can only approach it. The sensor just can't handle as many stops as film can.

I use Picture Window Pro, which has a color to Monochrome conversion a bit like Photoshop's channel mixer, but easier. You can play with various proportions of R to G to B and see the results immediately. I usually add some sort of S-curve as well, but each picture is different.

Some people add Gaussian noise or grain simulation to their images either by hand or using "actions." I almost never do. My printing process does it for me.

I print "Black Ink Only" using Paul Roarke's "3MK" process on an Epson R1800. It uses the Shareware QuadTone RIP ($50) to control 3 different print heads that all are filled with the same carbon ink. The dot pattern the printer produces with this method is very fine--you can just detect it if you "smell" the print. At normal viewing distance, it adds a very fine "grain" ambience to the print. It's not exactly like film, but it evokes the feeling you get from a good silver print where the grain is just barely visible, but clearly an organic part of the image.

I really like this process, except when I get ink all over my hands filling the cartridges. Which isn't all that often, since the process uses far less ink than quadtone or color inks. The ratio of paper white to black dots is what gives you your tones, rather than washing the entire surface with various shades of grey.

Here's a recent B&W I did:
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/pklein/friends/Anya2/L1005519BWCrop-w.jpg.html

And here's the color original:
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/pklein/friends/Anya2/L1005519Crop-w.jpg.html

I wish I could show you the B&W print!
 
D

ddk

Guest
Hi Marc,

Easy to see why you like the Ascough Actions, its a pretty nice conversion. I'm curious to know if you tried the Silver EFx or not and what you thought of it. I have my own reservations and am interested in yours.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Hi Marc,

Easy to see why you like the Ascough Actions, its a pretty nice conversion. I'm curious to know if you tried the Silver EFx or not and what you thought of it. I have my own reservations and am interested in yours.
My Nik trial time expired, and I'm not plunking down another $200. when I have the less expensive Ascough solution in hand that does the job.

All this "arm and a leg" ... and "nickel and dime" stuff is adding up :wtf:

:)
 

woodyspedden

New member
Woody:

If you want to order the actions from his site, just go ahead and you should be ok... I emailed Jeff a heads up that he may get a few inquiries based on my recommendations here and replied everything was cool.

I look forward to seeing some results posted here...

Cheers,
Thanks Riccis

Will do

Woody
 
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